AirAsia flight from Indonesia to Singapore missing

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LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Press Conference just confirmed sighting of exit door and life jacket.

From a pprune poster
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
- Team AirAsia QZ8506 search again found a body in the waters of the Strait of Karimata. 6 bodies were found, three of which have been evacuated. "There's more than one of the bodies found," said Marshal Kabasarnas FHB Soelistyo when contacted on Tuesday (12/30/2014). The process is hampered by the rapid evacuation of the waves. KRI Bung Tomo is now trying to catch bodies bobbing waves. "The evacuation is still ongoing," he said.

source : detik.com
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
http://ad.easa.europa.eu/ad/2014-0266-E


An occurrence was reported where an Airbus A321 aeroplane encountered a blockage of two Angle Of Attack (AOA) probes during climb, leading to activation of the Alpha Protection (Alpha Prot) while the Mach number increased. The flight crew managed to regain full control and the flight landed uneventfully.
When Alpha Prot is activated due to blocked AOA probes, the flight control laws order a continuous nose down pitch rate that, in a worst case scenario, cannot be stopped with backward sidestick inputs, even in the full backward position. If the Mach number increases during a nose down order, the AOA value of the Alpha Prot will continue to decrease. As a result, the flight control laws will continue to order a nose down pitch rate, even if the speed is above minimum selectable speed, known as VLS.
This condition, if not corrected, could result in loss of control of the aeroplane.
To address this unsafe condition, Airbus have developed a specific Aircraft Flight Manual (AFM) procedure, which has been published in AFM Temporary Revision (TR) N° 502.
For the reasons described above, this AD requires amendment of the applicable AFM.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Unfortunately, there are now pics of bodies being retrieved...

They have definitely found debris from the plane about 10km from LKP.
 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
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I think this is a mechanical issue. Other airplanes are flying in the area at the same altitude at the same time, but didn't go missing.

The ONLY reason these airplanes are not tracked is cost. Enabling 1 second update rates requires money for new avionics and for the service. Unless it is mandated for these budget airlines (or any airline) then the cost will always override the safety benefit. Profit > safety.

I suggest you read my post again before you continue to spout idiocy.

I think there are what, 5 cases in the world since the dawn of modern air travel where the plane has vanished with no recovery of anything. Out of the thousands of flights that happen every single day.

The 2 malaysian flights are outliers that are part of the .01%. The absurd cost of refitting every single plane isn't worth the expense. Also, what is active tracking of the plane going to do in these circumstances? No one has ever survived a water landing. And even if they did, they would die long before help ever got to them.
 
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Humpy

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2011
4,463
596
126
I suggest you read my post again before you continue to spout idiocy...

...No one has ever survived a water landing. And even if they did, they would die long before help ever got to them.

Miracle on the Hudson. In before that doesn't count.
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
Miracle on the Hudson. In before that doesn't count.

How about this water landing:

http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/ga421/photo.shtml

The aircraft was on a flight from Lombok to Yogyakarta when the crew was forced to make an emergency landing in the Benjawang Solo River, approximately 14 miles from their destination airport of Yogyakarta. Weather at the time of the accident was poor. A flight attendant was reportedly killed in the accident.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
... WTF?! They force flights through the center of storms due to strict flight paths? Having no allowances or plan B is insane.

Its because our air traffic control tech is old as dirt. My phone is better than what they currently have in the cockpit.

If they would implement the "new" GPS system we wouldn't need "air highways" like we currently have and instead let flights go from point A to point B. It would also allow both pilots and ATC to see exactly where other aircraft are in real time, planes could take off and land much faster and basically make the entire system far more efficient.

Right now we basically have highways in the air, forcing flights to add hundreds of miles to their routes, with planes "stacked" X miles apart and at different altitudes. I highly doubt that their was a plane directly above the flight in question but due to the inefficiencies in tracking planes and margin of error ATC couldn't allow the plane to climb. Had the not so new system been installed the pilot could have seen exactly where the other aircraft was, communicated directly with the other pilot, and safely altered his course.
 

Humpy

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2011
4,463
596
126
How about this water landing:

http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/ga421/photo.shtml

The aircraft was on a flight from Lombok to Yogyakarta when the crew was forced to make an emergency landing in the Benjawang Solo River, approximately 14 miles from their destination airport of Yogyakarta. Weather at the time of the accident was poor. A flight attendant was reportedly killed in the accident.

Or the hijacked Ethiopian flight that crashed in the ocean and many of the passengers lived. Apologists for failure can whine about it being too hard or too expensive to track planes in distress but if some ATOT'er (or even one of those P&N 'tards) was clinging to their seat cushion out in the water somewhere I would want them to know it would only be a matter of hours, not days, till rafts started dropping from the sky.
 

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,705
117
106
Its because our air traffic control tech is old as dirt. My phone is better than what they currently have in the cockpit.

If they would implement the "new" GPS system we wouldn't need "air highways" like we currently have and instead let flights go from point A to point B. It would also allow both pilots and ATC to see exactly where other aircraft are in real time, planes could take off and land much faster and basically make the entire system far more efficient.

Right now we basically have highways in the air, forcing flights to add hundreds of miles to their routes, with planes "stacked" X miles apart and at different altitudes. I highly doubt that their was a plane directly above the flight in question but due to the inefficiencies in tracking planes and margin of error ATC couldn't allow the plane to climb. Had the not so new system been installed the pilot could have seen exactly where the other aircraft was, communicated directly with the other pilot, and safely altered his course.

I was about to ask, don't these planes have GPS? I could track the ship my car was on from Germany across the Atlantic with updates every minute yet we lose planes full of people?
 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
How about this water landing:

http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/ga421/photo.shtml

The aircraft was on a flight from Lombok to Yogyakarta when the crew was forced to make an emergency landing in the Benjawang Solo River, approximately 14 miles from their destination airport of Yogyakarta. Weather at the time of the accident was poor. A flight attendant was reportedly killed in the accident.

Or the hijacked Ethiopian flight that crashed in the ocean and many of the passengers lived. Apologists for failure can whine about it being too hard or too expensive to track planes in distress but if some ATOT'er (or even one of those P&N 'tards) was clinging to their seat cushion out in the water somewhere I would want them to know it would only be a matter of hours, not days, till rafts started dropping from the sky.

Why do you people think a calm river landing and a fuel-less ocean landing that happened 500 yards from shore with a prepared crew is anywhere near comparable to a fueled aircraft landing during the middle of an emergency scenario?

Why do you people think you can keep talking about the aircraft industry with zero knowledge about what goes into these things?

Its because our air traffic control tech is old as dirt. My phone is better than what they currently have in the cockpit.

If they would implement the "new" GPS system we wouldn't need "air highways" like we currently have and instead let flights go from point A to point B. It would also allow both pilots and ATC to see exactly where other aircraft are in real time, planes could take off and land much faster and basically make the entire system far more efficient.

Right now we basically have highways in the air, forcing flights to add hundreds of miles to their routes, with planes "stacked" X miles apart and at different altitudes. I highly doubt that their was a plane directly above the flight in question but due to the inefficiencies in tracking planes and margin of error ATC couldn't allow the plane to climb. Had the not so new system been installed the pilot could have seen exactly where the other aircraft was, communicated directly with the other pilot, and safely altered his course.

Wow, I don't even want to go through the huge amount of ways you're wrong. The fact of the matter is, you're wrong, and your idea isn't new and there are reasons why we don't use them.

I was about to ask, don't these planes have GPS? I could track the ship my car was on from Germany across the Atlantic with updates every minute yet we lose planes full of people?


Unplug your GPS, coast for a bit, and then see how easy it is to find you.
 

Humpy

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2011
4,463
596
126
No one has ever survived a water landing.

Why do you people think a calm river landing and a fuel-less ocean landing that happened 500 yards from shore with a prepared crew is anywhere near comparable to a fueled aircraft landing during the middle of an emergency scenario?

Would not any airplane, not designed to land in the water, actually landing in the water be considered an emergency scenario? Are river landings and fuel-less ocean landings somehow not water landings?

You seem crazy. Calm down, gather your thoughts, then post.

Why do you people think you can keep talking about the aircraft industry with zero knowledge about what goes into these things?

LOL srs, I LOL'd IRL.

Because if a plane is having emergency issues, the location tracking system probably won't be working.

Clearly an insurmountable problem.
 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
Would not any airplane, not designed to land in the water, actually landing in the water be considered an emergency scenario? Are river landings and fuel-less ocean landings somehow not water landings?

You seem crazy. Calm down, gather your thoughts, then pos

LOL srs, I LOL'd IRL.

Clearly an insurmountable problem.

 

John Connor

Lifer
Nov 30, 2012
22,840
617
121
Its because our air traffic control tech is old as dirt. My phone is better than what they currently have in the cockpit.

If they would implement the "new" GPS system we wouldn't need "air highways" like we currently have and instead let flights go from point A to point B. It would also allow both pilots and ATC to see exactly where other aircraft are in real time, planes could take off and land much faster and basically make the entire system far more efficient.

Right now we basically have highways in the air, forcing flights to add hundreds of miles to their routes, with planes "stacked" X miles apart and at different altitudes. I highly doubt that their was a plane directly above the flight in question but due to the inefficiencies in tracking planes and margin of error ATC couldn't allow the plane to climb. Had the not so new system been installed the pilot could have seen exactly where the other aircraft was, communicated directly with the other pilot, and safely altered his course.


NextGen solves that.
 

John Connor

Lifer
Nov 30, 2012
22,840
617
121
I was about to ask, don't these planes have GPS? I could track the ship my car was on from Germany across the Atlantic with updates every minute yet we lose planes full of people?


Yes, The 737 has a GPS and two laser precision Gyros. A plane is basicly a guided missile.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
I'm sorry you don't understand why people in the Airline industry do the things they do.

The blinky light IS attached to the send help beacon. The problem is that, in the case of a ocean landing, the send help beacon needs to penetrate several miles of ocean in order to get a signal out, which isn't happening. As for the plane in the air, planes can fly for a damn long time even without any power, and if a plane loses all power and it can't run the location tracking systems, even when searchers know the last known location of a plane, there is still a huge area they have to search for debris. Have you seen the ocean? A plane is a insignificant speck compared to the entire thing.

In 99.99% of cases, the system works perfectly fine. But you can never account for that last .01% which is what these last two incidents are. That last .01%.

Umm, the location findy thingy that helps rescuers get to the location much quicker than just looking for a spec in the big ass ocean doesn't have a battery backup? Who the fuck designed that shit??? FFS their should be two location findy thingies both with redundant battery backups.

I can find my child just about anywhere in the darn world with a free app and smartphones. I simply don't buy that they can't make some sort of location findy thing that works at the very least, and I'm talking pinpoint accuracy, to the point of impact regardless of the condition of the aircraft or its electrical system. Oh, and there should be no off button nor should it be accessible to anyone while the plane is in flight.

In this day and our current technology I see absolutely no reason to ever lose a big ass friggen jumbo jet. We can put a big ass remote control car on mars in one of the most complicated and absurdly awesome ways ever, a friggen rocket powered skycrane FFS, but a pinpoint accurate tracking device with its own backup power source that constantly sends the location of a jumbo jet and tells the exact location of impact..... naw, we just can't make that happen. Seriously?
 
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