AircraftCarrier Catapaults....

[Goosemaster]

Why do they still use Steam Engine's and pistons?!


You'd think they would be using magnets by now. Or is there some security issue I am missing?

Does operation during power-loss have anything to do with it?

MANY OF YOU MISINTERPRETED WHAT I WAS ASKING:


The Catapault is POWERED by STEAM. What are the advantages/disadvantages of using magnetism?

AS IN, the aircraft is still attached the same way on takeoff, and catches the SAME cable on touchdown.

 

[Orsorum]

Keep in mind I don't know anything about it, but I would guess something about combat-effectiveness and redundancy.

 

[Ikonomi]

I wouldn't want magnets big enough to hurl a Tomcat off the deck around all those electronics, personally.

 

[UnatcoAgent]

I'm not positive, but I'm guessing that an electromagnetic rail system like that would require a phenominal amount of energy.

 

[Dudd]

If it's not broken, don't fix it.

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

Originally posted by: Ikonomi
I wouldn't want magnets big enough to hurl a Tomcat off the deck around all those electronics, personally.

Yup. Although, you wouldn't have to worry about doing FOD walkdowns anymore. Nothing metal is coming off that deck

 

[PowerMacG5]

Don't they use the nuclear generator to create the steam? (fission reaction heats heavy water, heavy water heats normal water to make steam, and this steam powers generators and the catapults)

 

[Ikonomi]

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

Originally posted by: Ikonomi
I wouldn't want magnets big enough to hurl a Tomcat off the deck around all those electronics, personally.

Yup. Although, you wouldn't have to worry about doing FOD walkdowns anymore. Nothing metal is coming off that deck

The other advantage is that pilots would never have to catch another wire on landing: Just fly low enough, and you stick.

 

[ColdFusion718]

They don't use magnets because you would need either huge magnets or so much power, it wouldn't be worth it. Also, magnets that large would either tear the planes apart before they even take off or rip all the traces off the electronics

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: ColdFusion718
They don't use magnets because you would need either huge magnets or so much power, it wouldn't be worth it. Also, magnets that large would either tear the planes apart before they even take off or rip all the traces off the electronics

Not necessarily. You can dictate the speed of the magnet by alternating the currents at your leisure.


It's not THAT simple, but that is the jist of it.

Basically, wouldn't magnetic equipment be more durable because of fewer mechanical parts, such as comparing piston- engine trains to MAGLEV ones...

 

[Rastus]

That is an interesting concept: a giant railgun for launching aircraft.

 

[nan0bug]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
Why do they still use Steam Engine's and pistons?!


You'd think they would be using magnets by now. Or is there some security issue I am missing?

Does operation during power-loss have anything to do with it?

MANY OF YOU MISINTERPRETED WHAT I WAS ASKING:


The Catapault is POWERED by STEAM. What are the advantages/disadvantages of using magnetism?

AS IN, the aircraft is still attached the same way on takeoff, and catches the SAME cable on touchdown.

My best guesses are, first of all, the steam is probbably made from cooling the reactors, so there's plently of it available (and plenty of water to make more). Secondly, the system they have works. Usually the Air Force and Navy get new tech. first, but typically the rule in the armed forces is, if it ain't broke, paint over it. If it is broke, fix it and paint over it. Thirdly, because it's low tech, yes it probbably has something to do with the fact that it can continue working when other systems on the ship fail. A magnetic driven catapult would probbably rely on a lot of computers, and would be a huge power drain on the ship. One of the things that make aircraft carriers so dangerous is how long they can stay out at sea before having to be refueled. A magnetic drive catapult would lower that amount of time signifigantly.


Edit: Don't you hate it when you post before reading the whole thread and all you accomplished is summing up what everyone else already said and adding to your postcount?

 

[So]

Actually, I believe the next generation of Carriers will use an electromaginetic catapult. The G. H. W. Bush, I think is the first. Let me look.

 

[So]

Popular Mechanics

Stealthy Approach

To make the CVX class more survivable in littoral combat, the Navy plans to make these carriers smaller, faster?and perhaps stealthy. In the Nimitz-class carriers size is largely a function of the catapult and the nuclear powerplant that, among other tasks, makes the steam to drive it. One of the most ambitious proposals for CVX is to scrap the massive steam-driven catapult and replace it with a lighter-weight electromagnetic system. Kaman Electromagnetics of Hudson, Mass., claims that its system operates at 70% efficiency versus 6% for steam, and could cut the weight of a 100,000-ton carrier by 1 percent.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: So
Popular Mechanics

Stealthy Approach

To make the CVX class more survivable in littoral combat, the Navy plans to make these carriers smaller, faster?and perhaps stealthy. In the Nimitz-class carriers size is largely a function of the catapult and the nuclear powerplant that, among other tasks, makes the steam to drive it. One of the most ambitious proposals for CVX is to scrap the massive steam-driven catapult and replace it with a lighter-weight electromagnetic system. Kaman Electromagnetics of Hudson, Mass., claims that its system operates at 70% efficiency versus 6% for steam, and could cut the weight of a 100,000-ton carrier by 1 percent.

:beer:

 

[OutHouse]

I remember something on discovery where the Navy was looking at using a magnetic pulpulsion system for launching AC based on the superman ride at some theme park.

 

[BillyGoat]

navy abe from 94-99 - I worked on catapults on the USS enterprise-I was a CAT specialist- went to both and and C school for them. Yes the steam is created from the nukes, and we use presurized water as brakes for them . neat huh? When i got out in 99 there was lots of talks of the electro magnetic cats, rumormill was that the regan was gonna have them

 

[DurocShark]

Originally posted by: Ikonomi

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

Originally posted by: Ikonomi
I wouldn't want magnets big enough to hurl a Tomcat off the deck around all those electronics, personally.

Yup. Although, you wouldn't have to worry about doing FOD walkdowns anymore. Nothing metal is coming off that deck

The other advantage is that pilots would never have to catch another wire on landing: Just fly low enough, and you stick.

LoL!!!

Actually, the magnetic field can be "tuned" to not interfere with electronics... They'd be small-ish mags anyway in a series, right?

 

[iwearnosox]

Originally posted by: DurocShark

Originally posted by: Ikonomi

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

Originally posted by: Ikonomi
I wouldn't want magnets big enough to hurl a Tomcat off the deck around all those electronics, personally.

Yup. Although, you wouldn't have to worry about doing FOD walkdowns anymore. Nothing metal is coming off that deck

The other advantage is that pilots would never have to catch another wire on landing: Just fly low enough, and you stick.

LoL!!!

Actually, the magnetic field can be "tuned" to not interfere with electronics... They'd be small-ish mags anyway in a series, right?

Until the pilots gets out and realizes his ipod is wiped clean.

 

[sparkyclarky]

Originally posted by: BillyGoat0
navy abe from 94-99 - I worked on catapults on the USS enterprise-I was a CAT specialist- went to both and and C school for them. Yes the steam is created from the nukes, and we use presurized water as brakes for them . neat huh? When i got out in 99 there was lots of talks of the electro magnetic cats, rumormill was that the regan was gonna have them

I think the Reagan was already launched and it still uses steam.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: KraziKid
Don't they use the nuclear generator to create the steam? (fission reaction heats heavy water, heavy water heats normal water to make steam, and this steam powers generators and the catapults)

IIRC heavy water is not used in the cooling system of US naval reactors. The reactor should be PWR (Pressurized Water Reactor). The primary loop is pressurized, preventing it from flashing to steam. Normal water absorbs more neutrons than heavy water, it acts as the moderator for the reactor.

 

[tranceport]

Originally posted by: Dudd
If it's not broken, don't fix it.

 

[nick1985]

im sure our military knows more about whats good on an aircraft carrier than you do.

kthxbye.

 

[MaxDepth]

why not rubber bands?

 

[FoBoT]

Originally posted by: Dudd
If it's not broken, don't fix it.

this is VERY prevelent in Navy Engineering. many items in a US Navy ship engineroom are the same as 50-80 years ago

if it ain't broke , they don't change it

also, the steam used by the catapult is taken directly from the propulsion steam systems, if it was magnetic, they would have to super size the electrical generators to provide the power to the magnetic system, that would cost a lot more money than steam pipes