AK47 vs M16

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Unheard

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2003
3,773
9
81
Originally posted by: adairusmc
When the Shit hits the fan it will be a lot easier to scrounge/take 5.56 ammo than it will for 7.62x39. Same goes for .308.

The M1a/M14 is trillion times better than both the AR and the AK combined though.

That's why I'm stock piling a couple of thousand rounds of 7.62x39.
 

adairusmc

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2006
7,095
78
91
Originally posted by: Unheard
Originally posted by: adairusmc
When the Shit hits the fan it will be a lot easier to scrounge/take 5.56 ammo than it will for 7.62x39. Same goes for .308.

The M1a/M14 is trillion times better than both the AR and the AK combined though.

That's why I'm stock piling a couple of thousand rounds of 7.62x39.

Couple thousand? Is that it?


I am working on stockpiling .308 right now, goes slower than .223 since it is so much more expensive.

I just stockpile brass for 5.56/223 to run through my Dillon XL650. I put away the 11,000 rounds I re-loaded on my last giant batch, and gonna order 10k rounds of brass tommorrow to start that all over again.
 

Tantalum

Junior Member
Dec 11, 2007
23
0
0
5.56mm rounds are a lot easier to carry in bulk than 7.62mm.

5.56mm rounds are quite deadly up to 200m, which is generally the farthest distance most firefights take place at. Many soldiers in Vietnam were quite amazed at the little round's lethality.

In the mid 80's 5.56 NATO rounds were updated to promote a "tumbling" effect when striking their target, thereby imparting a LOT more energy into the target.

5.56mm on the whole are probably cheaper than 7.62mm to produce.

AK47 rounds are 7.62X39mm, which isn't a really powerful round for a .30 caliber, compared to the 7.62 mm NATO round, or the earlier .30-06 round of the M1 from WWII.

There is a variant of the AK47, called the AK74 which uses an even smaller 5.45mm bullet. When used in Afghanistan in the 80's some people believed they were using poisoned bullets, they were so lethal.

AK has a deserved reputation for unbelievable ruggedness and dependability. Simple and durable, they embody most of the traits of a first class military rifle, except stunning accuracy. M16 was always more accurate than the AK, but early models in Vietnam were underdeveloped, and many of the rounds used in the early part of the rifle's existence were shipped with the wrong powder, causing excessive cycling rates, overheating and jamming. This is why many soldiers in that conflict often used captured AK's, or tried to hold onto their older M14's, another rifle with a bit of a checkered history. M16 has matured over the years to become one of the better military rifles available. It's no FN-FAL, but it isn't the jammy door-stop it used to be.

I wouldn't want either of them pointed at me in anger.
 

upsciLLion

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2001
5,947
1
81
Originally posted by: Tantalum
In the mid 80's 5.56 NATO rounds were updated to promote a "tumbling" effect when striking their target, thereby imparting a LOT more energy into the target.

Everything I've read has said the lethality of the 5.56 round depends not on tumbling but on fragmentation which depends very heavily on velocity for the lighter 55 gr and 62 gr bullets. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
 

GRIFFIN1

Golden Member
Nov 10, 1999
1,403
6
81
Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Originally posted by: Tantalum
In the mid 80's 5.56 NATO rounds were updated to promote a "tumbling" effect when striking their target, thereby imparting a LOT more energy into the target.

Everything I've read has said the lethality of the 5.56 round depends not on tumbling but on fragmentation which depends very heavily on velocity for the lighter 55 gr and 62 gr bullets. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

I'm pretty sure that tumbling action causes the bullet to fragment. On the standard 55 grain FMJ 5.56mm bullet, the center of mass is to the rear of the bullet. Because the back end of the bullet weights more than the front, once the bullets hits a soft target, the back end of the bullet has more trouble slowing down than the tip of the bullet. This make the bullet want to flip, and once the bullet gets sideways, it tends to fragment.
 

potato28

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
8,964
0
0
In CQB I'd have to go with a 12 gauge shottie, and the M4A1 for everything else up to 300m. Then it would be a bolt action sniper, dunno what caliber or make it would be though. And in CS I am a lot better with the M4 than the AK, long range HS's are easier to line up and get in 1 hit.
 

kef7

Diamond Member
May 11, 2001
4,090
0
76
The guy shooting the AK (at ~1.20 in the video) doesn't have a smooth trigger pull which could contribute to the poor patterning.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Originally posted by: Tantalum
In the mid 80's 5.56 NATO rounds were updated to promote a "tumbling" effect when striking their target, thereby imparting a LOT more energy into the target.

Everything I've read has said the lethality of the 5.56 round depends not on tumbling but on fragmentation which depends very heavily on velocity for the lighter 55 gr and 62 gr bullets. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

both from what i've seen. in those geletin block tests they show the bullet tumbling to create a bigger wound channel then fragmenting to spread the damage.
 

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,711
8
81
From what I understood reading some comments over the years about this:

While the .223 round is indeed smaller and lacks the sheer "penetrating power" that the 7.62 has, it tends to tumble once it penetrates the human body causing massive tissue damage while the 7.62 round tends to go through and through leaving a smaller wound.

I cant find it now because most weapons related web sites are blocked by the firewall here but I remember seeing a comparison of the rounds using ballistic gel and it showed the .223 round creating a wide cone of damage almost immediately while the 7.62 left a narrow cone of damage deeper, at depths no human body is large enough to justify


for what it's worth, I currently own an AR-15 but there's no conflict of interest here, I really want to own an AK-47 as well it's just I haven't found a good deal for an excellent condition pre-ban version yet.
 
Aug 23, 2000
15,509
1
81
Originally posted by: BrownTown
Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
Doesn't it also have no automatic-fire mode, only burst-fire? Which I think is bullshit, since removing options is never a good thing.

Well the problem is most troops aren't that highely educated so they just "spray and pray" and shoot off all their ammo way to quick. So they took full auto off the M16 so people actually take the time to aim instead of just shooting wildly. OF course the better soldiers can use full auto on the more "advanced" guns like the M4.

The M16 is stull a full auto weapon. The M4 is Semi Auto or 3rnd burst.
 

RagingBITCH

Lifer
Sep 27, 2003
17,618
2
76
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: BrownTown
Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
Doesn't it also have no automatic-fire mode, only burst-fire? Which I think is bullshit, since removing options is never a good thing.

Well the problem is most troops aren't that highely educated so they just "spray and pray" and shoot off all their ammo way to quick. So they took full auto off the M16 so people actually take the time to aim instead of just shooting wildly. OF course the better soldiers can use full auto on the more "advanced" guns like the M4.

The M16 is stull a full auto weapon. The M4 is Semi Auto or 3rnd burst.

That depends on the version (A1-4)
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
0
0
I'd like to find a Russian AK-47, but I can only find the Eastern European and Chinese knockoffs and not even the good ones.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,126
37,413
136
Originally posted by: AndrewR
I'd like to find a Russian AK-47, but I can only find the Eastern European and Chinese knockoffs and not even the good ones.

You probably won't find one.

If you want a high quality AK look into the Arsenal models...you'll pay for the privilege though.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,807
126
Originally posted by: Newbian
Pssh... who even uses those when you can just awp?

I play on a No Sniper Server. M4 and AK each have their advantages. M4 with Silencer gives Stealth, AK more power. They have about the same end effectiveness in my experience.
 

Billyzeke

Senior member
Jul 7, 2006
652
1
0
Why not just buy both like I did? I am now in the market for an FN SCAR. Anyone here have one?
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,041
3
0
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
What the AK lacks in long distance accuracy it makes up for in reliability. It definitely kicks more though.

i fired an AK before. the kick was less than i expected since that thing is all over the place in CS.
 
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