Al-Shahab in Kenya: Muslim or death

[FerrelGeek]

The Muslim terrorists are already being hunted down in all those places, by Muslims.

How about you walk over to your local Mosque and get to know some Muslims

Dude, sorry to put a dent into your vapid world view, but I don't hate Muslims. I clearly get the distinction between your average everyday Muslim and the Islamic extremeists. And, btw, most of those you freely castigate on the right do as well. But you have to view things in a simplistic way so your tiny brain doesn't explode. I'm still skeptical as to whether or not main-line Muslims will be able to exterminate these monsters as there are some many flavors of them. And they all have their various tribal / ethnic variants so I really don't think the conflict will ever be fully resolved.

Just because I don't look at the world through your Pollyanna glasses doesn't mean I'm a fire and brimstone hater. Grow up.

 

[Orignal Earl]

I would say a person stands a greater chance of dying from being in an accident or from disease than being killed by Islamic Extremist.

Depends where you live.

Of the 13,288 people killed by terrorist attacks last year, seventeen were private U.S. citizens, or .001 percent.

overall, a comparable number of Americans are crushed to death by their televisions or furniture each year

"In cases where the religious affiliation of terrorism casualties could be determined, Muslims suffered between 82 and 97 percent of terrorism-related fatalities over the past five years."

http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...y-their-own-furniture-as-by-terrorism/258156/

 

[Jaskalas]

The Muslim terrorists are already being hunted down in all those places, by Muslims.

How about you walk over to your local Mosque and get to know some Muslims

Liberal Muslims living in the West aren't really representative or indicative of Conservative or Tribal people living in Africa or the Middle East. Their numbers are small enough here to allow some form of assimilation with an open, western, culture.

It is entirely correct to condemn those who march for death, destruction, and oppression. If you'd like to say they not not authentic, okay then. Distinctions to separate them from other people are entirely correct and very important, but our terminology, our language when speaking of this matter is hardly going to reflect that.

Is that our failing when discussing this? To say something like: Muslims attacked us on September 11th, that Muslims fight us in Afghanistan and Iraq, that Muslims fight and murder each other over there. That Muslims in Africa are at war?

If it were Catholics in those roles, their Pope would assuredly disown and condemn them. The world would back their mainstream condemnation. We'd all be okay with that. Of course what we might not do in such cases is simply call them Catholic.

 

[Nebor]

You Cubicals totally lack perspective and awareness of the outside world
If 2 billion Muslims believed what you do, your head would of been gone along time ago

edit- or should it be Cubicalics, bare with me.. its a work in progress

Their constant infighting, cowardice, dislike of technology and general lack of military acumen keep them from overrunning the world in the traditional sense that you suggest.

 

[FerrelGeek]

I would say a person stands a greater chance of dying from being in an accident or from disease than being killed by Islamic Extremist.

This.

 

[justoh]

I would say a person stands a greater chance of dying from being in an accident or from disease than being killed by Islamic Extremist.

But why would you? Doesn't seem particularly relevant.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Really? You're so consumed by fear you can't understand the obvious???

 

[Orignal Earl]

Dude, sorry to put a dent into your vapid world view, but I don't hate Muslims. I clearly get the distinction between your average everyday Muslim and the Islamic extremeists.

Ah well then I'm sorry..
My entire argument is against the posters here who put all Muslims into the same basket

Grow up.

I like to think that I try to grow everyday.
With my shitty health though, I mostly enjoy watching my children and grandchildren grow

 

[Orignal Earl]

Their constant infighting, cowardice, dislike of technology and general lack of military acumen keep them from overrunning the world in the traditional sense that you suggest.

The Muslim doctor that saved my life with modern tech suggests to me otherwise
In your world view we don't need to worry about Iran and nukes either eh

 

[justoh]

Really? You're so consumed by fear you can't understand the obvious???

I guess I need a little help. Please explain why you made the obvious claim that we're more likely to die due to disease than islamic extremism when disease is more likely than anything to kill us?

 

[Atreus21]

Didn't read them all, however, those are about specific events/circumstances. There is nothing in the Koran telling Muslims to give people the choice of Converting or dying. This is especially true of Christians and Jews which have a special relationship with Islam, in the eyes of the Koran.

That said, as I mentioned, Religion has a way to warp the minds of followers to take such passages and re-interpret them to fit anyway the follower wants to use them. Context is often moot to the Believer who believes that their deity guides them personally.

Of course, as an Atheist, I have absolutely no idea what a "Holy" book says. Or that's what I am told quite often. Apparently without Personal interpretation there is no understanding of "Holy" text.

There are reasonable atheists who hold the reasonable view that some religions are better than others. It's lazy to dismiss all religions as equally destructive.

 

[justoh]

There are reasonable atheists who hold the reasonable view that some religions are better than others. It's lazy to dismiss all religions as equally destructive.

*less harmful.

 

[Atreus21]

*less harmful.

Furthermore it's lazy to dismiss all religions as harmful in general, varying only in degree.

 

[sandorski]

There are reasonable atheists who hold the reasonable view that some religions are better than others. It's lazy to dismiss all religions as equally destructive.

You misunderstand. It's not that Religions are equally destructive, it's that they are all fundamentally flawed. That flaw allows their Followers to justify any action, no matter how immoral.

 

[Atreus21]

You misunderstand. It's not that Religions are equally destructive, it's that they are all fundamentally flawed. That flaw allows their Followers to justify any action, no matter how immoral.

Any firm conviction is potentially dangerous. How do you account for the good things done by religion?

 

[justoh]

Furthermore it's lazy to dismiss all religions as harmful in general, varying only in degree.

Top Ten Reasons to why Religion is a Negative Force on the world

http://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/t...why-religion-is-a-negative-force-on-the-world

TEN.
Religion and religious persons impose their faith into public policy and politics. Where it clearly doesn't belong.


NINE.
Religion is still very much mediatory in the schools of nations such as Republic of Ireland, where it has no place. Churches were built for a reason. This makes many members of other faiths and no faiths feel uncomfortable and excluded during a time when young persons find it difficult to fit in as it is. It isn't a matter of talking about religion, but actively telling young persons to practice it mandatory.


EIGHT.
Many nations make it difficult for the non-religous to have any sort of successful career in politics (and being honest about their lack of faith at the same time)


SEVEN.
Many religious groups impose their views of abortion on others and seek to make abortion illegal. Because of religion in other nations it now is or has been for sometime, outlawed medial practice. Abortion is not murder, murder is the illegal killing of a human being, not a pre-human being.


SIX.
Religion demonises many educational fields in contrast with its doctrine, such as certain aspects of history and many accepted theories


FIVE.
There have been cases in the United States and some other country where person's have lost their jobs due to lack of faith or alternative faiths and sometimes on the bases of sexual orientation (which is thought to be justified because of certain beliefs)


FOUR.
Religion tries to justify many forms of discrimination including but not limited to, homophobia, sexism, racism and class


THREE.
Certain nations such as Iran and Uganda take their discrimination justified by religious beliefs a step further by improving atheists and murdering homosexuals


TWO.
Religion has caused many to rebel against its corruption. While this mostly occurs in changing religions or declaring oneself atheist; that is not always the next direction for some. For some they take that faith and change it for their own purposes, often resulting in more extreme and harmful faith systems mostly regarded as cults. These cults involve all sorts of dangerous acts, such as mass suicide and sometimes violent attacks of non-beleivers of their faith.


ONE:
Religion has literally caused people to go to war due to the influence of the faith and disagreement with certain policies based on religious beliefs (especially when a doctrine influences such actions)

Now you can tell me why religion isn't harmful, or a negative force, in general. Or are you also lazy? Even more so?

 

[Orignal Earl]

Furthermore it's lazy to dismiss all religions as harmful in general, varying only in degree.

Says the Catholic with the Mohammad av

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I guess I need a little help. Please explain why you made the obvious claim that we're more likely to die due to disease than islamic extremism when disease is more likely than anything to kill us?

If you don't understand I can't help you.

 

[sandorski]

Any firm conviction is potentially dangerous. How do you account for the good things done by religion?

Like what or more accurately, what "good thing" does Religion do that can't be done without Religion? I see people do good things, some of them are religious, some are not.

 

[Atreus21]

Top Ten Reasons to why Religion is a Negative Force on the world

http://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/t...why-religion-is-a-negative-force-on-the-world

TEN.
Religion and religious persons impose their faith into public policy and politics. Where it clearly doesn't belong.

Clearly doesn't belong? According to atheists. Muslims probably think Christian dogma has no place in Sharia-held jurisdictions I'm sure. Has this person read the Declaration of Independence? "With a firm reliance on the protection of divine providence"?

NINE.
Religion is still very much mediatory in the schools of nations such as Republic of Ireland, where it has no place. Churches were built for a reason. This makes many members of other faiths and no faiths feel uncomfortable and excluded during a time when young persons find it difficult to fit in as it is. It isn't a matter of talking about religion, but actively telling young persons to practice it mandatory.

EIGHT.
Many nations make it difficult for the non-religous to have any sort of successful career in politics (and being honest about their lack of faith at the same time)

SEVEN.
Many religious groups impose their views of abortion on others and seek to make abortion illegal. Because of religion in other nations it now is or has been for sometime, outlawed medial practice. Abortion is not murder, murder is the illegal killing of a human being, not a pre-human being.

SIX.
Religion demonises many educational fields in contrast with its doctrine, such as certain aspects of history and many accepted theories

FIVE.
There have been cases in the United States and some other country where person's have lost their jobs due to lack of faith or alternative faiths and sometimes on the bases of sexual orientation (which is thought to be justified because of certain beliefs)

FOUR.
Religion tries to justify many forms of discrimination including but not limited to, homophobia, sexism, racism and class

THREE.
Certain nations such as Iran and Uganda take their discrimination justified by religious beliefs a step further by improving atheists and murdering homosexuals

TWO.
Religion has caused many to rebel against its corruption. While this mostly occurs in changing religions or declaring oneself atheist; that is not always the next direction for some. For some they take that faith and change it for their own purposes, often resulting in more extreme and harmful faith systems mostly regarded as cults. These cults involve all sorts of dangerous acts, such as mass suicide and sometimes violent attacks of non-beleivers of their faith.


ONE:
Religion has literally caused people to go to war due to the influence of the faith and disagreement with certain policies based on religious beliefs (especially when a doctrine influences such actions)

Now you can tell me why religion isn't harmful, or a negative force, in general. Or are you also lazy? Even more so?

If these are the best you have, that's very telling.

So, where has religion been a positive force?

Wherever one finds civilization. Education. Science. Literature. Charity.

 

[Atreus21]

Says the Catholic with the Mohammad av

How many times have I told you to take down your avatar or face unspecified consequences?

 

[justoh]

If these are the best you have, that's very telling.

So, where has religion been a positive force?

Wherever one finds civilization. Education. Science. Literature. Charity.

That it can have a positive effect says nothing about whether or not it's harmful, or has negative overall or in general. That you posted this is very telling: can't think critically.

 

[Atreus21]

Like what or more accurately, what "good thing" does Religion do that can't be done without Religion? I see people do good things, some of them are religious, some are not.

I can't prove that religion does things that people can't do on their own. I can only prove that religion has done good things.

The example which comes closest to home for me is my mother-in-law. But for Catholic Charities, she'd never have gotten to the United States from Saigon. She'd likely have been among the boat people. And many of them met horrible ends.

 

[Atreus21]

That it can have a positive effect says nothing about whether or not it's negative overall or in general. That you posted this is very telling: can't think critically.

Right. I'm sure the establishment of universities, hospitals, and charitable organizations and the advancement of science through antiquity and modernity are completely overshadowed by the present complaints of atheists.

 

[justoh]

Right. I'm sure the establishment of universities, hospitals, and charitable organizations and the advancement of science through antiquity and modernity are completely overshadowed by the present complaints of atheists.

Since the claim was that it's harmful, even if it was overall more positive than negative, in some sick sense, that wouldn't help your attempted contradiction. Besides, all they ever do is point to charity to support the positive claim, and that doesn't require faith. Charity doesn't make up for ignorance, stupidity, suffering as a result of the church, especially in these same places where much of the charity work is undertaken. Aids is bad, for example, but not as bad as condoms.

But specifically on the catholic church, is it a force for good in the world, in a very well respected recent debate on intelligence squared followed by an audience vote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIgnw-b2Oro

Since you won't watch it, the motion failed, horribly.

Final Vote: 268 for, 1876 against. undecided 34

Doesn't prove anything, but inasmuch as it could it's compelling enough, and again it was a simple claim that religion is harmful. Even if you could make an argument that it's more beneficial on balance, it wouldn't follow that it's not harmful.