Alabama Church about to get its own police force

[[DHT]Osiris]

Agreed.

Organized religion still gets a voice in the government, indirectly. Church goers vote

Yeah I know, that part can't be helped without affecting/mandating how people think though. At least we can keep organized religion from mandating protections, preferential treatment, and defense via state-run law enforcement.

Oh wait.

 

[tmc]

this is what i understand (i am not a lawyer):

the church wants to hire people for security.

if they are private personnel, then they don't have the power and protection/immunity of "lawful police officers of the state". for example, someone can sue them for mistakes etc.

but if they are regarded as "officers of the state" then they get protection. they want private security, but with all the benefits of a state police officer.

also, many questions arise: who do they report to? will there be a jurisdiction conflict? and many more...

 

[IronWing]

Officers of the state should only be enforcing public laws. So in this case, they could bust burglars but not children failing to be sufficiently in the spirit. As officers of the state they should be available to response to other law enforcement needs, off campus. I see this more of an issue of taxation and private vs public benefits. The church wants the benefits of having more police protection for themselves but not the taxes that would socialize that benefit. So the church offers to pay for a private benefit from a public source. It creates a system of unequal protection and unequal justice.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

BREAKING: Alabama church officer uniforms revealed.

 

[senseamp]

This is same crowd that keeps scaring us about Sharia in the US.

 

[pauldun170]

A private, tax exempt organization asking for police powers where the leaders of the church are in charge of policy concerning law enforcement and overall police policy including scope\jurisdiction\organizational crap.

What could go wrong?
An armed dude with a badge that answers to the head of the church.

Do police powers end at the (tax exempt, privately owned) property line?

 

[nakedfrog]

This is same crowd that keeps scaring us about Sharia in the US.

Have a mosque try for the same thing and see how quickly people flip their lids...

 

[ch33zw1z]

Have a mosque try for the same thing and see how quickly people flip their lids...

Guaranteed epic meltdown.

 

[OutHouse]

FYI RailRoads (PRIVATE Corporations) have their own police force. I have a very active RR track near my house and i see the RRPD driving around often.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkAgbLM2eqY

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

FYI RailRoads (PRIVATE Corporations) have their own police force. I have a very active RR track near my house and i see the RRPD driving around often.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkAgbLM2eqY

ok...

 

[repoman0]

FYI RailRoads (PRIVATE Corporations) have their own police force. I have a very active RR track near my house and i see the RRPD driving around often.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkAgbLM2eqY

I see, the church is a private corporation and pays corporate taxes. Oh wait ...

 

[OutHouse]

ok...

just pointing out that private organizations can and do have police with full power to charge you with crimes. I do not agree with this at all.

 

[OutHouse]

I see, the church is a private corporation and pays corporate taxes. Oh wait ...

wtf does paying or not paying corporate taxes have to do with anything i said?

 

[repoman0]

wtf does paying or not paying corporate taxes have to do with anything i said?

Police are trained with tax dollars. The comparison of a corporation to a church is invalid.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Police are trained with tax dollars. The comparison of a corporation to a church is invalid.

Many churches do become corporations to protect their interests (ie Limited Liability).

 

[OutHouse]

Police are trained with tax dollars. The comparison of a corporation to a church is invalid.

BNSF Police training is paid by the railroad not tax dollars. Church police would be trained by the church, not tax dollars. both are non-government entities and i have a huge problem with non-government entities having police power.

 

[repoman0]

Many churches do become corporations to protect their interests (ie Limited Liability).

BNSF Police training is paid by the railroad not tax dollars. Church police would be trained by the church, not tax dollars. both are non-government entities and i have a huge problem with non-government entities having police power.

Fair enough

 

[pcgeek11]

pcgeek, what you just posted was exactly what my examples represent....state officials. If this officer isn't connected to the state, why does a law have to be passed by the Alabama legislature? I'm sure there are already mechanisms in place to allow organizations, institutions, etc., to hire security guards. So why does this law have to be passed? There certainly doesn't seem to be any prohibition to having security guards present there 24/7 if they want....but the church wants a police officer.

And probably more salient to the point you're trying to make, and flailing around doing so, is this first sentence in CNN's article linked above....that you failed to read:



So, if the full time hired officers are fully deputized, carry weapons and have arrest authority, what else do you call them other than state workers/agents?


Or maybe you missed this part of the article you chose to quote from, the linked AL. com article:



You see that "invested with all the powers of law enforcement officers in this state" part? That's a clue they'll be actors of the state, period.

Well first off I am not flailing. I was only quoting what was in the article linked from the OP...

1.) If they are hired by and are paid from the Church they are employees of the church not the state.
2.) Just because they are deputized doesn't change fact one above.
3. ) They are already using (and have been for years) and hiring fully deputized off duty police for this very same function.
4. ) Just because they work for the church doesn't mean that they go by a different set of laws.

Thanks for bringing forward other points that I was unaware of. We disagree, as I do not see this as a church and state thing as you were. But as usual the panty twisters are going to twist. I for one don't have an issue with a Church / School wanting to provide security for their people.

 

[Sunburn74]

If the church is paying out of pocket for off duty cops, I don't have a problem with it. If tax dollars are involved, unless there is demonstration of credible risks to the general public, I would be against it.

 

[shortylickens]

Sounds ridiculous until you realize north easterners and west-north westerners are arguing that a grown man should be legally recognized as a girl because he "feels like it".

Umm, ok.

Wat?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Herr kutz picked up a tranny and has been forever scarred

 

[Puffnstuff]

Just doing the lord's work.

Jesus came to set the captives free but (insert religious police organization name) came to incarcerate the captives. What shall they be called? Divine Enforcement Agency Inc., Holy Roller PD, Jesus of Nazareth PD, Pharaoh's Enforcers or Judas PD? Will they club people over the head with bibles instead of night sticks? Will they dump a gallon of olive oil on their heads and pray for them once they get them into cuffs? If they beat a person will they just call it the laying on of hands in prayer? This circus act has so much potential in it.

 

[IronWing]

BREAKING: Alabama church officer uniforms revealed.

 

[Puffnstuff]

IW do you think that chainsaw will be a standard issue bar or extra length?