Alcoholism

[bradly1101]

It's a little odd to me; he's straight, and I was the misunderstood and violently hated f*g, before I even understood the meaning of the word. When I later realized that that deepest of childhood insults was who I was, and that I couldn't change it, I fell into despair and self-loathing.

But I heard about the tumultuous life and death of my grandpa who died of his addiction to alcohol before I was born. I also noticed that the poison can be lit on fire. It seemed illogical to put in my body.

I have had alcohol before though. It seemed to give me the courage to get on the dance floor in my early twenties, and meet new people. It was very tempting to make a habit out of it, but I kept remembering those unimaginable stories about grandpa.

Other than me and the few friends I have in recovery, I don't know anyone who doesn't drink. The most lavishly decorated cocktails are always shared on FB. The poison has an attractive guise. The saddest thing to me is that people make so much money on all this misery. They say "drink responsibly," but I know they'd rather you didn't.

 

[whm1974]

No both, and my brother also has an obesity problem. He shared that after his first medical appointment in decades, the doctor said he has high uric acid. He's on a med. for it. I looked it up, and the causes are obesity and/or alcoholism, which started when he was about 15. A double whammy.

High uric acid, doesn't that causes painful swelling of the joints? I forget what it is called.

 

[lxskllr]

High uric acid, doesn't that causes painful swelling of the joints? I forget what it is called.

Gout

 

[whm1974]

Gout

Lets see, which foods to avoid? Beer, Beef, and Fish, what did I leave out?

 

[bradly1101]

In any 12-step program they talk about God, "Turn it over to God." They also say that if you don't believe in God, just think of a "higher power." I don't really think of powers like that or myself as higher or lower, but I had to pick something, it kept coming up in Alanon, so I chose two; the love that seems to hover over when I interact with my family and others, and nature. They both seem "bigger" than me or anyone. Turn something over to love? It works every time.

 

[lxskllr]

Lets see, which foods to avoid? Beer, Beef, and Fish, what did I leave out?

Wikipedia says fructose also.

 

[bradly1101]

Lets see, which foods to avoid? Beer, Beef, and Fish, what did I leave out?

I remember my mom's first protestations about my brother's drinking. He always said back to her, "Mom, beer is food!" And of course there are a few nutritional substances in it.

Edit: It can seem disparaging when you realize that stuff you like is also bad for you. I stopped using salt on my veggies a long time ago when I learned of its dangers. Now I can't imagine them any other way.

 

[whm1974]

Wikipedia says fructose also.

Considering that HFCS is in almost everything, that dos mean a gout suffer has to starve?

 

[lxskllr]

Considering that HFCS is in almost everything, that dos mean a gout suffer has to starve?

I don't know a whole lot about it, but it appears genetics is a factor also. I imagine it affects people differently, but as generic advice, I'd say moderation in everything. Most people won't have issues with any of the gout triggers, but I've known people that get it who are specifically triggered by certain foods. Seems seafood is the biggest. Once all intake has been moderated, you can pay attention to particulars. IOW, if you've eaten reasonably, but get a gout attack after shrimp cocktail, you should probably remove that from your diet, but your orange juice may never become a problem.

 

[bradly1101]

Until recently my elderly aunt was a teetotaler like me. We had a lot to talk about as we watched those around us succumb. Her husband was a Muslim Kurd who escaped Iraq as Hussein was gaining power in the mid sixties, before the coup of '68. He became a chemical engineering professor at UCLA where they met.

In her mid seventies she started drinking a few years after uncle Rafat died. I asked her why, and she said her friends encouraged her, and kept asking why she didn't drink. Drinking for the sake of others was her reasoning. I knew some of those others were my brother and his girlfriend.

When they all came to visit my brother would play bartender. He mixed gin and tonics for her like she was a 300lb. linebacker, but she is a slim, little old lady. One time after stumbling out of here, she called me from home and said that she had almost thrown up in the cab on the way home, and did after getting there. She was looking for my sober disapproval. She didn't get it. I refuse to help people beat themselves up. I could worry to hell about it, but again, that just makes things worse for everybody. I do worry a bit about vomit getting on my furniture though. They all minimize their drinking around me now after "Sally's" hospitalization, but only here.

She once asked how to know if she was an alcoholic. I told her what I learned in Alanon about it having to do with drinking every day, and/or drinking alone. She said, "So that means if I go to a bar every day and drink around others, I'm not an alcoholic?" She didn't get it, and revealed that she is a daily, alone drinker. Her father is the grandpa I never met who died because of drinking. She was one of the people who told me those educational, sad stories about him. To myself I hung my head low, but beyond that I'm powerless.

 

[whm1974]

Until recently my elderly aunt was a teetotaler like me. We had a lot to talk about as we watched those around us succumb. Her husband was a Muslim Kurd who escaped Iraq as Hussein was gaining power in the mid sixties, before the coup of '68. He became a chemical engineering professor at UCLA where they met.

In her mid seventies she started drinking a few years after uncle Rafat died. I asked her why, and she said her friends encouraged her, and kept asking why she didn't drink. Drinking for the sake of others was her reasoning. I knew some of those others were my brother and his girlfriend.

When they all came to visit my brother would play bartender. He mixed gin and tonics for her like she was a 300lb. linebacker, but she is a slim, little old lady. One time after stumbling out of here, she called me from home and said that she had almost thrown up in the cab on the way home, and did after getting there. She was looking for my sober disapproval. She didn't get it. I refuse to help people beat themselves up. I could worry to hell about it, but again, that just makes things worse for everybody. I do worry a bit about vomit getting on my furniture though. They all minimize their drinking around me now after "Sally's" hospitalization, but only here.

She once asked how to know if she was an alcoholic. I told her what I learned in Alanon about it having to do with drinking every day, and/or drinking alone. She said, "So that means if I go to a bar every day and drink around others, I'm not an alcoholic?" She didn't get it, and revealed that she is a daily, alone drinker. Her father is the grandpa I never met who died because of drinking. She was one of the people who told me those educational, sad stories about him. To myself I hung my head low, but beyond that I'm powerless.

Maybe your aunt just needs to spend time with people who are teetotalers or don't drink very often.

 

[bradly1101]

As I said, I met my partner in Alanon. Before we fell in love, he shared with the group about his own self-loathing after having grown up gay in conservative Orange County. I could totally relate (except that the tony, intolerant neighborhood I grew up in was at the southern end of the South [Santa Monica] Bay known as the Hollywood Riviera, about 25 mi. south of the real Hollywood, a planned community for the growing Hollywood elite in the optimistic days just before The Great Depression, and away from the city at that time. There are a few of the original Spanish-style mansions there, but mostly normal to large-sized homes).

A couple of years before Eljon and I met, he started a slow descent into madness. He took a two-story fall at the age of 15 in the Crystal Cathedral on a stylish staircase with no railing that led to the choiry where he loved to sing. He accidentally stepped back after a rehearsal and fell, causing all sorts of injury, including his traumatic brain injury, which didn't really affect him until much later, as they do. He was very fortunate to survive. His skull was broken behind his eyes and it knocked them a bit out of kilter for which he wore glasses from then on.

His sister has said that she wanted him to sue the rich church, but I knew my sweetie; he would never try to hold anyone accountable for his mistake. They did install a railing though. His mom's ashes are there in a beautiful memorial garden where we'd visit every year to place one of those exquisite, tall orchid plants from Trader Joe's. Ironically it was recently bought by the Catholics, the very church she was excommunicated from for having divorced her husband before she met Eljon's dad at a dance hall at the Santa Monica Pier in the late fifties.

Eljon and the brilliant organist had become friends, and Eljon was a bit in love with him I think (although they never got together), and greatly admired the seemingly impossible musical talent. That organist, Bryan Beavers, had an interesting connection to the church I lived next to and its massive pipe organ. It is the only surviving historic church in Long Beach, Calif. after the quake in '33. I attended a concert there once that included Bach's entire Toccata and Fugue in D Minor on the mammoth instrument, pipes everywhere, the big ones vibrating your soul like a voice from God. If you've never heard it beyond its first, very popular, notes, I highly recommend it. Just wow. Mr. Beavers sadly died suddenly in '86 of AIDS before he could finish redesigning the organ's console. It is a very liberal church with a lesbian assistant pastor who gave an enlightening "sermon" about her sexuality and her coming to God anyway. It says "A Very Liberal Church" above the beautiful entry. Edit: It's the church in the photo below from my previous 6th floor apartment where I had lived before moving in with Eljon.

Eljon had been laid off before we met because of his difficulty with his mind, and was having deep anxiety about money. He was an advertising copywriter and previously wrote many articles for local papers. His writing style was as clear as a bell and unpretentious. I helped him with a freelance job as things got worse, trying to write eye-grabbing advertising for MadPlanet. He thought of a slogan for a big L.A. dental chain that we saw later in a one line ad plastered across the side of a city bus, "Teeth Love Affordable Braces." When I pointed it out to him, I could tell he was happy, but continued being his humble self. He had done advertising at Disney, and many other companies over his career, and had a huge portfolio. Before we met, no one was really physically helping this sweet man. I saw the veiled panic in him rise, and I couldn't not be there for him.

His drug of choice was water of all things, and he had been hospitalized a few times after his brain went even more haywire from the lack of electrolytes. It's called hyponatremia, water on the brain. A Sacramento radio station basically killed a woman by holding a water drinking contest. It scared the shit out of me. Like food, it's not something you can stop doing or go cold-turkey with. We managed though, and he was on powerful medications. One of them was called Saphris. When he first told me about it, I looked it up, and according to the manufacturer it had a "sudden death" cardiovascular side-effect in the elderly. He wasn't elderly, but had been on it for over six years. It originally was supplied for him by his psychiatrist with those samples that drug reps. like to give out. After they stopped supplying it, it ended up costing over $400/mo. - more anxiety from a med. that was supposed to help with that, but he was hooked, we could afford it.

He died of a sudden heart attack in Aug. 2016 in my arms after saying "I love you" like he always did, especially when he felt out of sorts, and I said it back realizing something was wrong. Just then he gasped with a horribly scared look after reaching out for me. When he fell toward me, he pinned me and my wheelchair against a wall. I couldn't lift him, and could see that he wasn't breathing. I couldn't get to his mouth or chest for CPR, but I had my phone. I called 911, and despite the fire station just a couple of hundred yards away, the city paramedics took a long time to get into our security building. They oddly didn't use the entry system until I called 911 back after hearing them banging on the door downstairs. Once they made it up and lifted him off me, there was nothing left that they could do. While here one of the paramedics directed me into the kitchen where I faced him away from the body. I turned around, and the other one had already pulled out Eljon's wallet from his back pocket, I assumed to get his ID, but I later realized that the $60 he had recently gotten at the bank was gone. Other paramedics in a different, nearby city had done the same thing with my grandma and her antique diamond ring handed down to her in the old country (Alsace-Lorraine in France before she emigrated here in the thirties) - the perfect crime.

I fed him very healthy food, and we always exercised daily. Aside from a bit of a paunch, he was buff. I didn't share his death before this post in AT as if doing so in my sacred forum would make it more real. We held his memorial on top of a hill overlooking a small, quaint church with its rooftop cross pointed toward heaven, and the protective WW2 batteries, in the appropriately named Angel's Gate park above the ocean and Catalina Island in San Pedro - one of our favorite spots just above the Korean Bell where we'd meditate at the seeming edge of the world.

After he died, I found a box filled with hand-written journals from before the accident up until three years before we met. The first one had a greeting to the reader, explaining their purpose, and hopeful publishing at some future time, so I felt fine reading them. They totaled at least 10,000 pages in medium to large notebook size. I read them all, and fell in love with him all over again. Again, he wrote so well. They contained his fears, his depression, his school/college life, his relationships, his joys and all the rest. I took notes, and my favorite quote was, "People lie to impress. I always find the more mundane truth to be much more impressive." Like me, he knew a lot of alcoholics with their often lying, braggadocios ways.

He didn't live to see the madness in Washington, and always gave me a concerned look when I'd say, "Mark my words, that man will become president." It seemed a ridiculous suggestion at the time.

Forgive me, writing is my therapy.

The Storm's Last Laugh (view from the apartment I lived in when I met Eljon)

 

[bradly1101]

Maybe your aunt just needs to spend time with people who are teetotalers or don't drink very often.

What people should do/need to do and what they do are often at great odds.

 

[bradly1101]

"Should" is a judgement. If I'm ever unsure of what is the right thing to do, (for me) the thing that is the most moral, the most compassionate (no matter who is trying to ruffle my feathers), and is the most repeatably just is the thing to do. "Should" doesn't seem necessary, and I get the desire to use it.

And I also try to be liberal, but not in a political sense, in the the first of it's two definitions,
adjective.

1. open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.

That doesn't mean throwing all old ideas out, maybe some still. "Open to" means open-mindedness.

Again, not getting political, rather sharing the process that works for me to get through a world with seeming ever increasing, man-made chaos. My corner can be sweet, especially if I write, and keep the TV off. War Schmar.

 

[AMDisTheBEST]

Replace achohol with milk and koolaid. It helps

 

[William Gaatjes]

No both, and my brother also has an obesity problem. He shared that after his first medical appointment in decades, the doctor said he has high uric acid. He's on a med. for it. I looked it up, and the causes are obesity and/or alcoholism, which started when he was about 15. A double whammy.

It is interesting that you mention that.
A friend of mine who is also overweight only has gout when it gets warm and sweats alot and he also does not consume enough water.
The build up of high uric acid levels and the crystals can sometimes be prevented by consuming a lot of water.
I told him to drink lots of water every day to see if that helps.

If the kidneys are not the problem, this can sometimes prevent gout because the person needs to urinate more often, lowering the uric acid levels in the blood if the kidneys function properly.
Decreasing the chance of uric acid crystals in the joints and the inflammation that follows.
High uric acid levels should be investigated though, if the kidneys are not the problem because of some inability to filter uric acids,
there is a high build up of purine somewhere in the body underlying the real cause..
Either some organ is not working properly or there is a constant inflammation somewhere breaking down cells or the food consumed causes high levels of purine.
Purine is broken down to uric acid.

Also, with lots of alcohol, the liver is under constant stress, might also elevate uric acid levels.

Much water drinking and a proper healthy diet might be a solution if it is not some problem in the body.
Friend of mine does not like vegetables and likes to only consume meat and consume alcohol or suger loaded drinks.
It is not strange he has gout in the summer.

 

[whm1974]

"Should" is a judgement. If I'm ever unsure of what is the right thing to do, (for me) the thing that is the most moral, the most compassionate (no matter who is trying to ruffle my feathers), and is the most repeatably just is the thing to do. "Should" doesn't seem necessary, and I get the desire to use it.

And I also try to be liberal, but not in a political sense, in the the first of it's two definitions,
adjective.

1. open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.

That doesn't mean throwing all old ideas out, maybe some still. "Open to" means open-mindedness.

Again, not getting political, rather sharing the process that works for me to get through a world with seeming ever increasing, man-made chaos. My corner can be sweet, especially if I write, and keep the TV off. War Schmar.

Sorry I didn't mean to get judgmental here.

 

[bradly1101]

It is interesting that you mention that.
A friend of mine who is also overweight only has gout when it gets warm and sweats alot and he also does not consume enough water.
The build up of high uric acid levels and the crystals can sometimes be prevented by consuming a lot of water.
I told him to drink lots of water every day to see if that helps.

If the kidneys are not the problem, this can sometimes prevent gout because the person needs to urinate more often, lowering the uric acid levels in the blood if the kidneys function properly.
Decreasing the chance of uric acid crystals in the joints and the inflammation that follows.
High uric acid levels should be investigated though, if the kidneys are not the problem because of some inability to filter uric acids,
there is a high build up of purine somewhere in the body underlying the real cause..
Either some organ is not working properly or there is a constant inflammation somewhere breaking down cells or the food consumed causes high levels of purine.
Purine is broken down to uric acid.

Also, with lots of alcohol, the liver is under constant stress, might also elevate uric acid levels.

Much water drinking and a proper healthy diet might be a solution if it is not some problem in the body.
Friend of mine does not like vegetables and likes to only consume meat and consume alcohol or suger loaded drinks.
It is not strange he has gout in the summer.

This is what I love about this place, so much knowledge. I've seen my brother drink water before occasionally. But 98% of the time he has a Manhattan in hand, sometimes beer, or fine Tequila from an enticing, interesting bottle. A long, long time ago, before I knew the principals of Alanon, and before his health problems, I tried talking to him about the dangers of drinking so regularly, and its effects on hydration. His reasoning was that unless you're drinking 100+ proof booze, you're drinking mostly water when having a cocktail or even drinking straight. They call it "neat," an innocuous sounding name.

His lower back may have those crystals, as it's been causing him deep pain for a long time, and affects his mood/attitude so badly, he seems like a different person at times. A drink always calms him down. It was imaged by his doctor, but my brother refused the doctor's request to show him the X-ray. He thinks if he sees it, it'll be worse in his mind. He recounted this all to me.

I told him what I was learning about the para-sympathetic nervous system in a book about neurology and how it relates to happiness, and how alcohol stunts its calming effects. He seemed interested, but if he believed it, I'm sure by now he thinks he's so far down the hole that there's no escape from the emotional pain.

He's going to see a psychiatrist about his panic attacks to get on Xanax or something. I forgot to mention that right now he's sharing prescriptions of his girlfriend's for Xanax and Vicodin. Yes, they combine these with the alcohol. (the first time they met my partner, Eljon, [before he knew about their addictions] he offhandedly mentioned to them that his dentist gave him a pain prescription (I think it was Vicodin) that he wasn't going to fill since the pain wasn't bad. My brother's girlfriend practically begged him to fill the 'script for her and that she'd pay for it. This concerned Eljon, and was nowhere near the place his moral compass was ever pointed, and was embarrassing for me. He always tried to avoid them after learning about their addictions. He was an Alanon-er like me, and avoidance is often the only option to keep one's sanity. Eljon didn't fill the prescription. After he died (above) my brother was helping me throw out some stuff. I was readying Eljon's leftover medications to go to the hazardous waste recycling (they wouldn't take his controlled med., Ativan, and the gov't website says that those should be thrown out in the trash - hmmm), and my brother asked if there were any "fun" pills in there. I lied and said they were for OCD, which was partially true.

20+ years ago when "Bob and Sally" got together, it was instantly obvious that she was lit all the time. Back then I said to myself in fear and pain, "Great, now my brother has a permanent, live-in drinking buddy." I had no idea how it would turn out, well maybe some.

The effects of treating emotional pain with addictions to substances have been known for a long time, and is so widespread. A not unpredictable outcome, and very sad since it does the opposite of helping in the long run. Hope is in my very concerned heart. Beyond that I'm powerless aside from all the compassion this generates.

Once after I had asked no questions, my brother said after all his recent medical stuff that he needed to make lifestyle changes. It has to come from him. If I said anything like advice to him, or that it might be good if he drank more water, he'd be insulted, not only about me "interfering," but because I am his less wise little brother. He's always tried to get me to understand the benefits of drinking.

When his girlfriend was intubated in critical care from the varices and after the liver tests, I got bold and told my brother that he could no longer drink around her in support of her new understanding about stopping cold. He told me he didn't want to hear it. She said she stopped, but I saw my brother drinking around her, and she went back to it full force.

I understand the need to belong, even some about addiction, but after hearing about the behavior of alcoholics/drug addicts in Alanon, it would take a lot to surprise me - there was a little old lady who got ripped off by her grandson so that he could get his next fix. After kicking him out, he kept breaking in and stealing more stuff. She had to call the police on her own family, which she had obviously found heartbreakingly difficult.

Seemingly no behavior is beyond the addicted. They suffer, and their families suffer, and they all can recover. Hope.

 

[bradly1101]

Sorry I didn't mean to get judgmental here.

No, not at all. Judgement is very human, and very understandable, and often useful. I judge things all the time, but if I said to my aunt, "You need to hang around better people." She'd go ballistic. In this case my judgement would have had the opposite effect of its intention. The [edit: perceptually] damaged ego (especially of an alcoholic) is a loose cannon, firing at its own supports.

 

[whm1974]

@bradly1101 You sound wiser then your brother, but in speaking of your aunt, I knew a few people who were alcoholics or drug addicts and some of the stuff they told me that helped them recover from this was hanging around a new crowd of folks who weren't users and finding good support.

 

[William Gaatjes]

This is what I love about this place, so much knowledge. I've seen my brother drink water before occasionally. But 98% of the time he has a Manhattan in hand, sometimes beer, or fine Tequila from an enticing, interesting bottle. A long, long time ago, before I knew the principals of Alanon, and before his health problems, I tried talking to him about the dangers of drinking so regularly, and its effects on hydration. His reasoning was that unless you're drinking 100+ proof booze, you're drinking mostly water when having a cocktail or even drinking straight. They call it "neat," an innocuous sounding name.

His lower back may have those crystals, as it's been causing him deep pain for a long time, and affects his mood/attitude so badly, he seems like a different person at times. A drink always calms him down. It was imaged by his doctor, but my brother refused the doctor's request to show him the X-ray. He thinks if he sees it, it'll be worse in his mind. He recounted this all to me.

I told him what I was learning about the para-sympathetic nervous system in a book about neurology and how it relates to happiness, and how alcohol stunts its calming effects. He seemed interested, but if he believed it, I'm sure by now he thinks he's so far down the hole that there's no escape from the emotional pain.

He's going to see a psychiatrist about his panic attacks to get on Xanax or something. I forgot to mention that right now he's sharing prescriptions of his girlfriend's for Xanax and Vicodin. Yes, they combine these with the alcohol. (the first time they met my partner, Eljon, [before he knew about their addictions] he offhandedly mentioned to them that his dentist gave him a pain prescription (I think it was Vicodin) that he wasn't going to fill since the pain wasn't bad. My brother's girlfriend practically begged him to fill the 'script for her and that she'd pay for it. This concerned Eljon, and was nowhere near the place his moral compass was ever pointed, and was embarrassing for me. He always tried to avoid them after learning about their addictions. He was an Alanon-er like me, and avoidance is often the only option to keep one's sanity. Eljon didn't fill the prescription. After he died (above) my brother was helping me throw out some stuff. I was readying Eljon's leftover medications to go to the hazardous waste recycling (they wouldn't take his controlled med., Ativan, and the gov't website says that those should be thrown out in the trash - hmmm), and my brother asked if there were any "fun" pills in there. I lied and said they were for OCD, which was partially true.

20+ years ago when "Bob and Sally" got together, it was instantly obvious that she was lit all the time. Back then I said to myself in fear and pain, "Great, now my brother has a permanent, live-in drinking buddy." I had no idea how it would turn out, well maybe some.

The effects of treating emotional pain with addictions to substances have been known for a long time, and is so widespread. A not unpredictable outcome, and very sad since it does the opposite of helping in the long run. Hope is in my very concerned heart. Beyond that I'm powerless aside from all the compassion this generates.

Once after I had asked no questions, my brother said after all his recent medical stuff that he needed to make lifestyle changes. It has to come from him. If I said anything like advice to him, or that it might be good if he drank more water, he'd be insulted, not only about me "interfering," but because I am his less wise little brother. He's always tried to get me to understand the benefits of drinking.

When his girlfriend was intubated in critical care from the varices and after the liver tests, I got bold and told my brother that he could no longer drink around her in support of her new understanding about stopping cold. He told me he didn't want to hear it. She said she stopped, but I saw my brother drinking around her, and she went back to it full force.

I understand the need to belong, even some about addiction, but after hearing about the behavior of alcoholics/drug addicts in Alanon, it would take a lot to surprise me - there was a little old lady who got ripped off by her grandson so that he could get his next fix. After kicking him out, he kept breaking in and stealing more stuff. She had to call the police on her own family, which she had obviously found heartbreakingly difficult.

Seemingly no behavior is beyond the addicted. They suffer, and their families suffer, and they all can recover. Hope.

I am sorry to read what bad things have come over you.
My condolences for what happened to your partner.
Life is build up of so much variables and sometimes the bad variables are all there at once at a time, disrupting a pleasant life for some time.
But life is always constantly changing and so are the variables(some bad some good) that meet at a given point in space and time.

I was thinking a lot about addiction and i think there are basically two kind of addicts. Both kinds are people who from living life have much physical pain or / and emotional pain.
Some addicts really just want the pain to go away and when other people help them so they can realize and reflect on themselves that the addiction is not good they usually become mentally stronger in the recognition that feeling happy has nothing to do with taking substances that alter the state of mind. And doing so stop using while making sure to recognize and avoid stressful situations.

The other kind of addicts, well...
These are people who convinced themselves they need substances to continue to live. It is not funny meant in any way but it is a bit like golem from Lord of the rings.
Here in the Netherlands we have people who are hardcore addicts, they cannot stop.
And of course doctors say that it is genetic. But nobody is hardwired to need alcohol or opium or cocaine.
However, epigenetics does allows subtle changes and a family history tree where everybody consumes alcohol might cause an effect that for example alcohol can give the effect that it is needed.
There much study is needed about what happens to people.
When everybody drinks in a family, it is hard to say what is nurture and what is nature.
If there is for example lot of drinking and violence, when the mother is with child... Then the elevated stress hormones like cortisol of the mother in her bloodstream might alter in a epigenetic way the development of the child (fetus). This can alter the brain development of the child causing neurological changes. Like for example being stressed out faster and ilater in life seeking comfort in substances like alcohol or weed or hard drugs like cocaine and heroine, mdma , amfetamines.


You really are the smart one of the two brothers. You realized without knowing that you may have some predisposition to desire the effects of alcohol intoxication, you refuse to let yourself go wild .
I have respect for you.

 

[bradly1101]

@bradly1101 You sound wiser then your brother, but in speaking of your aunt, I knew a few people who were alcoholics or drug addicts and some of the stuff they told me that helped them recover from this was hanging around a new crowd of folks who weren't users and finding good support.

Yes, once one starts down a healthier path, all sorts of support options that were always there come into view, but no one can take the steps on that path for them, and it can't even be marked unless they're ready, or in a drunk tank sitting in their own urine, or in jail after mowing someone down while in a stupor, or losing their family, ... and even then it's only a maybe.

Edit: Oh, and thank you.

 

[bradly1101]

I am sorry to read what bad things have come over you.
My condolences for what happened to your partner.
Life is build up of so much variables and sometimes the bad variables are all there at once at a time, disrupting a pleasant life for some time.
But life is always constantly changing and so are the variables(some bad some good) that meet at a given point in space and time.

I was thinking a lot about addiction and i think there are basically two kind of addicts. Both kinds are people who from living life have much physical pain or / and emotional pain.
Some addicts really just want the pain to go away and when other people help them so they can realize and reflect on themselves that the addiction is not good they usually become mentally stronger in the recognition that feeling happy has nothing to do with taking substances that alter the state of mind. And doing so stop using while making sure to recognize and avoid stressful situations.

The other kind of addicts, well...
These are people who convinced themselves they need substances to continue to live. It is not funny meant in any way but it is a bit like golem from Lord of the rings.
Here in the Netherlands we have people who are hardcore addicts, they cannot stop.
And of course doctors say that it is genetic. But nobody is hardwired to need alcohol or opium or cocaine.
However, epigenetics does allows subtle changes and a family history tree where everybody consumes alcohol might cause an effect that for example alcohol can give the effect that it is needed.
There much study is needed about what happens to people.
When everybody drinks in a family, it is hard to say what is nurture and what is nature.
If there is for example lot of drinking and violence, when the mother is with child... Then the elevated stress hormones like cortisol of the mother in her bloodstream might alter in a epigenetic way the development of the child (fetus). This can alter the brain development of the child causing neurological changes. Like for example being stressed out faster and ilater in life seeking comfort in substances like alcohol or weed or hard drugs like cocaine and heroine, mdma , amfetamines.


You really are the smart one of the two brothers. You realized without knowing that you may have some predisposition to desire the effects of alcohol intoxication, you refuse to let yourself go wild .
I have respect for you.

Thank you for your condolences. It is incredibly touching to know you read that and feel for me from halfway around the world. I love this forum.

Life is a process; if you let it get you down, there you are indenting the very rock you stand on, and for some digging at and penetrating its surface without accepting that there's another way. Up.

Golem. Genius!

The family effects of addiction permeate everyone, and indeed even the unborn.

It's strange; on one hand watching others fall to the disease of addiction (I've seen both causes you mentioned) has been the hardest thing I've ever done, while on the other has been the most educational experience of my life. I'd gladly trade the education for sobriety in my loved ones.

(Here in the U.S. we used to think of Amsterdam in your country as a sinful place; prostitutes fully legal and available, and marijuana smoked openly. When you experience marijuana it can feel euphoric and even enlightening, but to use it constantly in the avoidance of important-to-face emotional pain, to be buzzed all the time, is obviously a challenge to awareness aside from the physical effects of smoke. They make all those "edibles" now and THC pills, liquids, etc., but they are harder to dose with to achieve the high one wants. Marijuana is less harmful than a lot of stuff, but not totally harmless of course.

As to the openness of prostitution; I saw this phenomenon in Germany as a teenager on a trip there as an opera singer's son, the pretty women standing on street corners displaying their jingling keys on up-stretched fingers. "I'm here, come and get it." After looking into why it's legal in some places, it made me realize how advantageous legalization is with the ability to control disease-spread more - there are regulations that workers get tested - and less stigma, and less crime about it, and....

Here in the U.S. we try to sweep it under the rug, hoping in vain that this oldest of professions will go away, even prosecute people. More pure we think of ourselves as, more righteous and virtuous despite all the obvious downsides of shame.) [sorry a short political rant]

In my brother's mind I know there is some logic left, maybe some shame, but until his heart is in the right place, facing him, there won't be peace, and he may go into the grave that way, following many, many others.

Thank you for your personal comment, and I never see myself as more or less anything compared to others. If I do, I start losing my compassion, empathy, and humility, and I stop learning. I love to learn. You taught me much.

 

[A Casual Fitz]

Replace achohol with milk and koolaid. It helps

Mixed together?

 

[lxskllr]

Mixed together?

I used to do that as a kid. To my kid taste, some were delicious; like strawberry Quik, but they didn't all work.