With the release of Alder Lake less than a week away and the "Lakes" thread having turned into a nightmare to navigate I thought it might be a good time to start a discussion thread solely for Alder Lake.
I would first swap mice. It could be a bad mouse. Then I'd reinstall drivers. The mouse driver and GPU drivers can do this and uncommonly other drivers could be causing a lag like that. Then I'd check Windows power saving settings. Those all are more likely causes of mouse problems than the way Alder Lake is built.The fact that Alder Lake has an exotic core layout and a thread director scheme that behaves peculiarly might be responsible for the problem.
Any interconnect latency would be well below human perception. And if that were actually a problem, would be noticed by more than one person.Could be an interconnect issue. Skylake CPUs didn't have the same interconnect layout, and if user input requests get constantly bounced between core clusters, there could be some lag.
Well, that machine was off. I turned it on and was trying to type in the search window, but it was like no keyboard. 10 seconds later it comes back. I can't find "Intel Rapid Storage" device, but it needed a windows update, so I will look again after that finishes. Thanks, I think I just verified it again.
Might be a reason.
OK, after hours of updating drivers. I MAY have fixed the problem. I can say its only windows 11 and Alderlake, but I cannot say what it is exactly.Well, that machine was off. I turned it on and was trying to type in the search window, but it was like no keyboard. 10 seconds later it comes back. I can't find "Intel Rapid Storage" device, but it needed a windows update, so I will look again after that finishes. Thanks, I think I just verified it again.
The dreaded Alder Lake USB Bug! Discovered right here on Anandtech forums.OK, after hours of updating drivers. I MAY have fixed the problem. I can say its only windows 11 and Alderlake, but I cannot say what it is exactly.
Kind of like the AMD USB thing...... They now share something !
Funny how in just 2-3 thread pages we've gone from "Thread Director may have hardware bugs" to "updating drivers solves issue, wasn't about Thread Director anyway".The dreaded Alder Lake USB Bug! Discovered right here on Anandtech forums.
I can confirm that disabling HT increases the Geekbench ST score on i5-12400, from 1600s to beyond 1700, faster than Apple M1.I haven't tested recently, but with 8 thread limited CB23 i was getting ~12-13k with HT enabled and 15-16k with HT disabled.
You did notice that there is only ONE post that says the issue MIGHT be solved by updating drivers. I only was being honest, as I did not see the issue for about 10 minutes after the last bunch of updates and driver updates. Don't be jumping to conclusions on my part, when I said MIGHT, I mean it. Trying not to be a negative impact, but real feedback. I have just never seen anything like this before.Funny how in just 2-3 thread pages we've gone from "Thread Director may have hardware bugs" to "updating drivers solves issue, wasn't about Thread Director anyway".
People who promoted this FUD about broken hardware scheduling should at least eat some crow and start learning how to deal with anecdotal evidence.
I can confirm that disabling HT increases the Geekbench ST score on i5-12400, from 1600s to beyond 1700, faster than Apple M1.
That's still happening on Win10, and from what I'm seeing on my machine there's a lot of thread movement on two of the P-cores, with other cores seeing less hopping (but still present).I haven't tested recently, but with 8 thread limited CB23 i was getting ~12-13k with HT enabled and 15-16k with HT disabled. No idea if this was fixed and who is/was to blame.
And scheduling looked completely wrong too, workload jumping all over the cores.
Here's screenshots to illustrate what @JoeRambo is talking about. First Task Manager crop is 8+0/16t, the one bellow is 8+4/20t. Notice how threads no longer hop between logical cores.I think an important point is that supposedly this issue is not a problem when E-Cores are enabled, just when only P-Cores are present.
You're not the one spreading the FUD in this thread, my issue is not with you reporting the problem or a POSSIBLE & unconfirmed solution.You did notice that there is only ONE post that says the issue MIGHT be solved by updating drivers. I only was being honest, as I did not see the issue for about 10 minutes after the last bunch of updates and driver updates. Don't be jumping to conclusions on my part, when I said MIGHT, I mean it. Trying not to be a negative impact, but real feedback. I have just never seen anything like this before.
Super interesting. Anyone notice how with E-cores disabled, the workload seems to be taxing 10 cores but with E-cores enabled, only 8 cores are handling the brunt of the workload?Here's screenshots to illustrate what @JoeRambo is talking about. First Task Manager crop is 8+0/16t, the one bellow is 8+4/20t. Notice how threads no longer hop between logical cores.
View attachment 59311
Super interesting. Anyone notice how with E-cores disabled, the workload seems to be taxing 10 cores but with E-cores enabled, only 8 cores are handling the brunt of the workload?
@coercitiv Comments please? There IS some weirdness going on with ADL.Most likely it is present everywhere, cause i have noticed it when my specific workload showed strange degradation and performance was restored after disabling HT.
Comments?! All of this and much more was discussed by @JoeRambo , @Hulk and myself on various occasions since we bought and tested out ADL systems. This ain't new at all for people following this thread since Dec 2021. More than that, I'm one of the more vocal skeptics when it comes to Intel's hybrid approach for the desktop (there's a reason I joke about "Thread Dictator"), so take that as a further indicator of how unfounded or alternatively blown out of proportions your comments about Thread Director are.@coercitiv Comments please? There IS some weirdness going on with ADL.
I'm just interested in your views on why disabling HT is increasing performance with E-cores disabled. Something wrong with the Windows scheduler or is it more a hardware related issue?This ain't new at all for people following this thread since Dec 2021.
Or, Geekbench?I'm just interested in your views on why disabling HT is increasing performance with E-cores disabled. Something wrong with the Windows scheduler or is it more a hardware related issue?
True but JoeRambo is experiencing performance improvement in CB23 with HT disabled. It's some thread hopping issue.Hyperthreading has always slightly harmed single thread performance.
Any interconnect latency would be well below human perception.
And if that were actually a problem, would be noticed by more than one person.
The explanation is far more likely to be a wonky software installation than anything to do with Alder Lake, hybrid or otherwise.
Funny how in just 2-3 thread pages we've gone from "Thread Director may have hardware bugs" to "updating drivers solves issue, wasn't about Thread Director anyway".
People who promoted this FUD about broken hardware scheduling should at least eat some crow and start learning how to deal with anecdotal evidence.