Question Alder Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

With the release of Alder Lake less than a week away and the "Lakes" thread having turned into a nightmare to navigate I thought it might be a good time to start a discussion thread solely for Alder Lake.

 

[yacoub]

Any reviews out there talking temps? Curious how hot these chips run on a Z690 with DDR5 using air cooling.

 

[Arkaign]

Any reviews out there talking temps? Curious how hot these chips run on a Z690 with DDR5 using air cooling.

Check out the new GN reviews aka Tech Jesus.

TLDR, the 12900K in unleashed mode is a 360mm AIO level of toasty, the 12600K is ok with a decent air cooler.

 

[blckgrffn]

Any reviews out there talking temps? Curious how hot these chips run on a Z690 with DDR5 using air cooling.

With air cooling you’ll just be bouncing off the top thermal limits at 100C long before the chip runs out of TDP headroom.

Not many air coolers rated for 240W.

That’s if you render or something of course. Any good air cooler looks to be fine for non-power virus loads. If it worked for 10th Gen I9 you should be Ok.

 

[Doug S]

Yeah, the recent Cinebenchs are pretty unaffected by memory speed and cache sizes. It's probably why a few sites picked them for IPC testing for this benchmarking round.

A benchmark that scales nearly perfectly with clock rate is terrible for IPC testing, as the "IPC" measured would be the same for every CPU! i.e. a CPU clocked twice as high gets numbers twice is high so dividing performance by clock rate ends up the same for both.

 

[insertcarehere]

With air cooling you’ll just be bouncing off the top thermal limits at 100C long before the chip runs out of TDP headroom.

Not many air coolers rated for 240W.

That’s if you render or something of course. Any good air cooler looks to be fine for non-power virus loads. If it worked for 10th Gen I9 you should be Ok.

https://www.computerbase.de/2021-11/intel-core-i9-12900k-i7-12700k-i5-12600k-test/2/

12th gen was tested with the old 10th-gen, 11th gen scheme here (PL1 = 125w, PL2 = 150/190/241w, 56 sec), and even for a long load in Blender the 12900k only loses 12% perf, the 12700k loses 6% perf, and the 12600k loses no perf at all.

It'd be interesting to do more throuogh testing of the 12th gens with more stringent ~125w PL2s. For all intents and purposes the 12600k is already there by default and I suspect performance loss is not nearly as big on the i7s/i9s as implied by the power draw.

 

[Markfw]

https://www.computerbase.de/2021-11/intel-core-i9-12900k-i7-12700k-i5-12600k-test/2/

12th gen was tested with the old 10th-gen, 11th gen scheme here (PL1 = 125w, PL2 = 150/190/241w, 56 sec), and even for a long load in Blender the 12900k only loses 12% perf, the 12700k loses 6% perf, and the 12600k loses no perf at all.

It'd be interesting to do more throuogh testing of the 12th gens with more stringent ~125w PL2s. For all intents and purposes the 12600k is already there by default and I suspect performance loss is not nearly as big on the i7s/i9s as implied by the power draw.

Just to be clear... What do you think it would do with a 100% load@241 watt for HOURS, like prime95 ? I am trying to compare to when I did primegrid for a week, and my 5950x was creaming EVERYTHING, including my EPYC boxes. Its just a monster. I don't thing the 12900k would live on an air cooler for days under that load like my 5950x did. THIS is the problem I have with the 12900k.

As I said, the 12700k and the 12600k look great for gaming. But for full loads, the 12900k just can't take it IMO.

 

[tamz_msc]

Just to be clear... What do you think it would do with a 100% load@241 watt for HOURS, like prime95 ? I am trying to compare to when I did primegrid for a week, and my 5950x was creaming EVERYTHING, including my EPYC boxes. Its just a monster. I don't thing the 12900k would live on an air cooler for days under that load like my 5950x did. THIS is the problem I have with the 12900k.

As I said, the 12700k and the 12600k look great for gaming. But for full loads, the 12900k just can't take it IMO.

Finding large primes isn't exactly something what 99.99% of people would consider meaningful. Source: I'm a math student.

 

[yacoub]

Finding large primes isn't exactly something what 99.99% of people would consider meaningful. Source: I'm a math student.

*glares in Optimus Prime*

 

[Exist50]

Just to be clear... What do you think it would do with a 100% load@241 watt for HOURS, like prime95 ? I am trying to compare to when I did primegrid for a week, and my 5950x was creaming EVERYTHING, including my EPYC boxes. Its just a monster. I don't thing the 12900k would live on an air cooler for days under that load like my 5950x did. THIS is the problem I have with the 12900k.

As I said, the 12700k and the 12600k look great for gaming. But for full loads, the 12900k just can't take it IMO.

Worst case, it would just throttle a few percent. But a week even at 100C is nothing to a CPU.

 

[insertcarehere]

Just to be clear... What do you think it would do with a 100% load@241 watt for HOURS, like prime95 ? I am trying to compare to when I did primegrid for a week, and my 5950x was creaming EVERYTHING, including my EPYC boxes. Its just a monster. I don't thing the 12900k would live on an air cooler for days under that load like my 5950x did. THIS is the problem I have with the 12900k.

As I said, the 12700k and the 12600k look great for gaming. But for full loads, the 12900k just can't take it IMO.

To that I say, I don't care what a 12900k would do at 241w because that's not the only way to get a 12900k to work. It's real simple to set a MB's PL2 to 140-150w (approx what a 5900X/5950X can draw), plop on a good air cooler and go on my merry way. My main concern would be how much performance may be left on the table by doing so.

 

[Markfw]

Finding large primes isn't exactly something what 99.99% of people would consider meaningful. Source: I'm a math student.

Well, you don't know me very well.... Thats the exception. I don't care about primes. It spends 24/7/365 @100% load trying to cure cancer.That was an example since people know prime stresses a CPU. From the multiple replies, its obvious nobody believes me, that its a hot CPU and would throttle down quickly and stay there under sustained load at 241 watts, where its optimal performance is supposed to be.

So you all believe what you want, I am done here with morons.

 

[Exist50]

that its a hot CPU and would throttle down quickly and stay there under sustained load.

We've seen that cutting even 100W doesn't harm performance by much at all.

 

[tamz_msc]

Well, you don't know me very well.... Thats the exception. I don't care about primes. It spends 24/7/365 @100% load trying to cure cancer.That was an example since people know prime stresses a CPU. From the multiple replies, its obvious nobody believes me, that its a hot CPU and would throttle down quickly and stay there under sustained load at 241 watts, where its optimal performance is supposed to be.

So you all believe what you want, I am done here with morons.

Why would anyone run Prime95 for a week though? Folding proteins on the other hand is a useful endeavor. So why did you not ask how the CPU does in Folding@Home but talk about running primegrid on your 5950X CPU for a week?

 

[eek2121]

Well, you don't know me very well.... Thats the exception. I don't care about primes. It spends 24/7/365 @100% load trying to cure cancer.That was an example since people know prime stresses a CPU. From the multiple replies, its obvious nobody believes me, that its a hot CPU and would throttle down quickly and stay there under sustained load at 241 watts, where its optimal performance is supposed to be.

So you all believe what you want, I am done here with morons.

I believe Ian mentioned that software may not be reporting temps correctly in the review. Guess we will see.

 

[eek2121]

Why would anyone run Prime95 for a week though? Folding proteins on the other hand is a useful endeavor. So why did you not ask how the CPU does in Folding@Home but talk about running primegrid on your 5950X CPU for a week?

Gotta keep the office warm in the winter!

 

[Markfw]

Why would anyone run Prime95 for a week though? Folding proteins on the other hand is a useful endeavor. So why did you not ask how the CPU does in Folding@Home but talk about running primegrid on your 5950X CPU for a week?

Primegrid is a DC project in BOINC. I volunteered for a week. The 5950x was a monster in that project. F@H(I am number 35 in the world) is done best with video cards.The CPU projects that I run are Rosetta@home (I am number 29 in the world) and WCG ( I am 76 in the world). Both of those are medical research projects.

I used the primegrid as an example that many people would understand(prime95 to be exact), as its used to test stability. Trying it on all cores@100% for a week on an air cooler would kill a 12900k IMO. Let me know when someone has tried that @241 watts (stock) on an air cooler. I understand that even Intel recommends an AIO or custom water for heavy use of that CPU

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I know I'm a weirdo, but did anyone test the iGPU yet?

Never mind, found one already. Sits between 11900k and 3400G at 720p low in the games tested using DDR 4 G skill trident z royal 4600 CL 18. I will see if I can find someone using DDR5. A 12600K could be a good placeholder while someone is waiting on a dGPU. Nice uptick in fps over the UHD750.

 

[UsandThem]

I know I'm a weirdo, but did anyone test the iGPU yet?

Integrated graphics? We're talking about integrated graphics? Not dedicated graphics, but integrated graphics?

I hadn't seen any of the sites publish them yet. They probably all ran out of time for that to be included in the first major review, but I imagine within the next few days they should start popping up on many tech sites.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Integrated graphics? We're talking about integrated graphics? Not dedicated graphics, but integrated graphics?

I love IGP! I edited my post above. Looks like a good uplift over UHD750 even with DDR4. If DDR5 does more for the IGP than it did for the CPU, it could be winner chicken dinner.

 

[UsandThem]

I love IGP! I edited my post above. Looks like a good uplift over UHD750 even with DDR4. If DDR5 does more for the IGP than it did for the CPU, it could be winner chicken dinner.

With GPU prices as they currently are, and what they are pointing to be priced at going forward now that both AMD and Nvidia have seen what people are will to pay to the retail, private parties on FS/FT forums like ours, and on Ebay, my next CPU choice will be one with integrated graphics as well.

Homey done playing the GPU pricing insanity game until (if ever) that GPU prices return to reasonable levels. I'm not dropping $1.5k+ on a video card.....ever.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

With GPU prices as they currently are, and what they are pointing to be priced at going forward now that both AMD and Nvidia have seen what people are will to pay to the retail, private parties on FS/FT forums like ours, and on Ebay, my next CPU choice will be one with integrated graphics as well.

Homey done playing the GPU pricing insanity game until (if ever) that GPU prices return to reasonable levels. I'm not dropping $1.5k+ on a video card.....ever.

Never say never. But I grok. I play old games on my AMD APUs, to let my RTX and GTX cards rest. Not sure when value GPUs will return, so have to preserve the ones I have. My 5600G boosting to 4.65GHz vega 2.3GHz provides a great 1080p experience for almost my entire GOG library, and a fair percentage of Steam too.

On topic:12600K is looking pretty tasty. If they don't cheese the IGP on the 12400 or whatever lower part, they will dominate budget builds soon. Need cheaper B and H boards to go with them.

 

[TheELF]

I think there's a typo in their write-up. From the chart, it's clear that it's the 5900x that is 8% faster when both are at 88W. The 5950x is 16% faster than the 12900k when it is also at 88W. The problem really comes from Intel only having 8 performance cores, so trying to catch up to the 16 performance Zen 3 cores becomes a tall task and ADL has to start using larger and larger amounts of power to match the 16 cores once they are fed a bit more as well. I.e. the power curve becomes much steeper for the 12900k vs. the 5950x as higher performance levels are reached.

View attachment 52356

Yeah I saw that as well when I looked over it again.
Still the 12900k at 125W matches the 5900 at no power limits and the 5950x at 88W.
That's 37W more for the 12900k, how many years is it going to take the 12900k running at 125 to pile up the electricity bill to match the 5950x higher price tag?
Sure ryzen is still a lot more efficient but all this doom and gloom about OMG so many watts, oh the humanity, is just laughable.

Just to be clear... What do you think it would do with a 100% load@241 watt for HOURS, like prime95 ? I am trying to compare to when I did primegrid for a week, and my 5950x was creaming EVERYTHING, including my EPYC boxes. Its just a monster. I don't thing the 12900k would live on an air cooler for days under that load like my 5950x did. THIS is the problem I have with the 12900k.

As I said, the 12700k and the 12600k look great for gaming. But for full loads, the 12900k just can't take it IMO.

CPUs have come a long way in the last few decades having all of the protections now, with a 100% load@241 watt for years even on an air cooler the 12900k would just throttle down to whatever the cooling provides it wouldn't run at 241W just because you have set that in the bios.
It would absolutely not be as fast or as efficient as the 5950x but it would also not just blow up, CPUs adjust based on temps and the 5950x would do the same, in case the room would heat up to the same level as the CPU it would start slowing down the CPU.
If you have it stashed in a cupboard or under a table and the airflow is not there that could happen pretty fast that the surrounding air gets as hot as the CPU so that the intake has no cool air to suck in.
We have seen this on plenty of console generations where this happens very often.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Not many air coolers rated for 240W.

BeQuiet Dark Rock Pro (4?) was on sale @ Newegg, and claimed to handle 240W TDP. But I think you would need a new mounting bracket.

 

[yacoub]

Once Ethereum goes Proof of Stake, that may take away a significant portion of mining demand for GPUs, though there's always some new meme coin that could take up the slack. Perhaps only when the crypto space cools off will supply and demand rebalance in our favor.

 

[Dave3000]

I right now have an Ryzen 5800x but I'm having seemingly compatibility issues with my iPhone 12 through the front USB connections and most of the rear USB connections of my PC. I've mentioned this issue I'm having before in this forum. I have found three workarounds, short of buying a USB 3.0 PCI-E card (with a front USB port header) (which I did before but returned it due to the 4-pin molex plug not able to go all the way into the molex socket, leaving an unsecured powered connection, thus USB devices randomly dropping out signal from the card). I'm considering selling off my 5800x and B550-F ROG (Wi-Fi) motherboard and buying the i7-11700k and an Z590 Asus ROG motherboard. If the 12700k is much better than the 11700k in X-Plane 11 or Flight Simulator 2020 then I will stick with my 5800x and consider the 12700k at a future date but not buy it right away as I want to wait at least 2 months to see how everything pans out for the 12th gen/Z690 platform. I'm hesitant to jump into a new released platform right away.