Question Alder Lake - Official Thread

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Timorous

Golden Member
Oct 27, 2008
1,748
3,239
136
You dont need DDR5 for 12600K and if you comparing ryzen without igpu then compare it to intel without GPU and thats 12600KF.This driving me nuts.People always comparing ryzen without igpus to 12600K/12700K/12900K with igpus.
And if you want ultimate bank for buck wait for non K cpus to drop in January. 12700F should cost around 300USD and 12400F bellow 200USD.

LTT said that DDR5 was faster for gaming with ADL. If you go DDR4 you save money but you end up closer to 5600X performance for gaming.

If you go cheapest DDR4 Z690 vs cheapest X570 then sure you can build a 12600K system for about the same kind of money as a 5600X system but we don't know how it performs in gaming. It might be slower. Of course if you are going cheap you have B550 for AMD which is going to save you £50 which can go towards something else, like a cooler which you don't really need on the 5600X build but will for the 12600KF build.
 
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Sunaiac

Member
Dec 17, 2014
84
24
81
I'm left a bit underwhelmed by those results. Hopefully more ... thorough tests than LTT (not hard) will show a better light.

Basically, unnoticeable gaming advantage (at 1080p with a 3090, so I'd wager no difference in most real world usages. Basically any gamer has the same experience with anything from Ryzen 5600x to i9 12900k), with an unnoticeable power advantage. I seem to remember Ryzen 3000 having more of a deficit against core 9000.
A slight CPU price advantage completely absorbed by RAM and motherboards costs (maybe DDR4 tests will improve this aspect, but at what cost in performance ?)
Lower MT performance for much worse consumption at high end. (Probably limiting power to much more reasonable numbers would not reduce performance much ?)

At least the i5 moves productivity numbers way higher in that price range (but with the 240£ diff shown just above when considering full plateform ... :S). That's good, ends the 6 core midrange and move it to 8 cores/6+4 cores, 5600x productivity numbers at that price point are kinda not acceptable anymore.

And it kinda makes RKL look like the bad joke it always was.

I'm not even sure AMD has to adapt their prices, I was hoping this would make the Zen3D less expensive that Zen3 but not so sure now. At worst taking of the 50$ they added with Zen3 over Zen2 would be enough (and welcome). Also they should nuke the 5800x and bring a 5700x at more decent price.

So yeah, not an upgade for Zen3, hardly more convincing that Zen3 for anyone coming from older systems especially with Zen3D on the horizon, maybe with the exception of the i5 but when you compare actual costs and not just CPU costs.

I was expecting/hoping for better.
 

leoneazzurro

Golden Member
Jul 26, 2016
1,051
1,711
136
LTT said that DDR5 was faster for gaming with ADL. If you go DDR4 you save money but you end up closer to 5600X performance for gaming.

If you go cheapest DDR4 Z690 vs cheapest X570 then sure you can build a 12600K system for about the same kind of money as a 5600X system but we don't know how it performs in gaming. It might be slower. Of course if you are going cheap you have B550 for AMD which is going to save you £50 which can go towards something else, like a cooler which you don't really need on the 5600X build but will for the 12600KF build.

I also got a view at what it is in Europe. On geizhals.de the cheapest Z690 DDR4 mainboard is 60€ more expensive than the cheapest X570 board. Not only that, but the CPU prices are funny, too, as the cheapest 12600K goes for 10€ more than the cheapest 5600X (both available). So basically you can buy a system with the 5800X for the same price of a system with the 12600K. This not accounting for the existence of even cheaper B550 boards.
 

eek2121

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2005
3,100
4,398
136
I'll take 10% slower performance for 17% cheaper price any day. And that's only accounting for the CPU price alone.

Genuinely confused by these 5900x pricing comments. The MSRP of the 5900x is $549.00 according to AMD. The 12900k is $589.00. That is a $40 difference. (less than 8%). Sure you can find the 5900x $20 cheaper if you shop around, but it has been out for a year and it will be replaced or discounted in January. Meanwhile the 12900k isn’t even released yet (releases today).
 

Kocicak

Golden Member
Jan 17, 2019
1,070
1,128
136
It feels that producing a consumer CPU which pulls 250W out of socket at default settings is simply WRONG. They are committing a "crime against enviroment" just to hide that the CPU is weaker than they are trying to portray it. 250W is a server monster territory.

General trend today in everything is making stuff which is more energy efficient than the previous products. Intel should get some anti-enviromental shame price for this and a hefty fine on top of that.
 
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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
15,154
5,686
136

Chinese review. Course may be fake. DDR4 is consistently faster than DDR5 although the difference isn't much. AMD results were from Windows 10. If more games ran like Far Cry 6 (I guess that's Far Cry 6), that would get people's attention.
 

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
1,810
1,159
136

Chinese review. Course may be fake. DDR4 is consistently faster than DDR5 although the difference isn't much. AMD results were from Windows 10. If more games ran like Far Cry 6 (I guess that's Far Cry 6), that would get people's attention.
1. He's comparing DDR5 4800 CL40 vs DDR4 3600 CL16 (DDR4 3600 CL16 is not JEDEC standard.
2. 5600x has PBO enabled.

This slide has the third entry with only P-Cores running CB R20


So, the 5600x runs 4.5GHz stock, may go higher with PBO. The 12600k runs 4.5GHz stock.













That's 6 cores/12 threads Zen 3 vs Golden Cove on Win 10, DDR4 3600 CL16
 
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Asterox

Golden Member
May 15, 2012
1,037
1,821
136

Chinese review. Course may be fake. DDR4 is consistently faster than DDR5 although the difference isn't much. AMD results were from Windows 10. If more games ran like Far Cry 6 (I guess that's Far Cry 6), that would get people's attention.

It is not fake, it is expected for "cheep DDR5 4800 CL40".All that gaming comparison, i don't see much point considering the absurd prices of gaming cards.1080p comparison blah, my head hurts RX 6600 now cost 650euro.

DDR5 gaming price=performance, it is dead no doubt.I can buy today or now 16GB DDR4 3200 CL16 for 75$, or 485kn is 75$.

 

tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
3,865
3,729
136
Genuinely confused by these 5900x pricing comments. The MSRP of the 5900x is $549.00 according to AMD. The 12900k is $589.00. That is a $40 difference. (less than 8%). Sure you can find the 5900x $20 cheaper if you shop around, but it has been out for a year and it will be replaced or discounted in January. Meanwhile the 12900k isn’t even released yet (releases today).
On Newegg right now the 5900x is $524. 12900KF is $630.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
I almost feel like copying and pasting my old comment about Ram, but suffice to say, yet again the 'early' new gen Ram is unappealing and overpriced, but like every single other time that will change pretty quickly. We've become spoiled by elite level DDR4 as it's evolved, along with competitive prices down the line.

I would like to see comparisons both with generic level DDR4-3200 C18 type value stuff as well as DDR4-4400 C16 exotica.

I definitely wouldn't jump on DDR5 until it gets its legs under it, the results are fairly impressive thus far when you consider how early/bad DDR5 is currently. We'll be looking back not too far from now with 6400+ low latency DDR5 laughing at this stuff just like DDR4-2400/2666 is an absolute joke now.
 

majord

Senior member
Jul 26, 2015
491
622
136
REVIEWS:

Roundup:

some starters


 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
To be clear, I understand that benchmarks need to show the differences between the CPUs when the stress is actually put on the CPU. However, my problem is that when you get to games, benchmarking a high-end CPU at 1080p is often not indicative of what someone will see when they go to WQHD or 4K (i.e. more GPU bound). As someone with an i9-9900k that plays games at WQHD@160Hz, what sort of benefit will I get? Are there any sites that take a peek at higher resolutions even though they may not be as indicative of raw CPU performance?
 

DisEnchantment

Golden Member
Mar 3, 2017
1,747
6,598
136
Eye watering performance overall, beating proper 16 cores made by AMD and released just a year ago is amazing.
Windows 10 scheduler + ADL hybrid = disaster
while Windows 11 is shining, that is good news overall, maybe i won't need to disable the E cores after all? maybe.

Oh and 2k GB5 ST is just incredible.
If they have 16 P-Core ADL it would be instant buy for me.
Only power consumption bothers me a bit, everything seems good
 
Jul 27, 2020
19,762
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To see how it plays out in a more practical test, we then simultaneously recorded the power consumption of both systems while Procyon 2.0 is running Photoshop and Lightroom Classic. You can see the Ryzen 9 is actually using more power than the 12th gen Core i9 in both applications. The upshot is that yes, the 12th-gen Core i9 can indeed guzzle down the electricity, but in actual practical use, it tends to be fairly energy efficient.

That's...unexpected.
 
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