Question Alder Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

With the release of Alder Lake less than a week away and the "Lakes" thread having turned into a nightmare to navigate I thought it might be a good time to start a discussion thread solely for Alder Lake.

 

[LightningZ71]

Has anyone run across a review or benchmarks of the uhd 770 igpu in Alder Lake with a heavy overclock with good ram? O'm wondering if it makes it to the roughly ryzen 3200g performance level?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Has anyone run across a review or benchmarks of the uhd 770 igpu in Alder Lake with a heavy overclock with good ram? O'm wondering if it makes it to the roughly ryzen 3200g performance level?

Here is one with good DDR4, but no OC v. 3400G, if you did not see it already. It should be right there in some titles. Maybe win some that are CPU heavy? Drivers should help a little as time goes by. If Intel gives them any love that is.

 

[eek2121]

We don't get a piece of flair to pin to our lapels for getting M1 performance from a non-Apple piece of hardware, whenever it shows up? Are you sure? How will everyone know how smart and value driven we are?

/S

I am not buying a Mac because I am Windows across all my things right now and I put a premium on having my tools be homogenous, but I am looking forward to getting something better than my 8th Gen i7 in a laptop and picking up some decent battery life too. It's not like it's too slow, really, but I am wanting something new and shiny and preferably without two GPUs (I don't like how hybrid stuff makes it hard to know what is going on or makes you choose performance vs battery life). Xe or RDNA2 in a Lenovo Thinkpad is how I will be rolling, no matter how shiny that M1 Air might be

Given how OEM relationships are working and how AMD is maybe (correctly, as a stockholder, imo) keeping their best for the datacenter it's looking like an Intel part right now. So lets go, Intel!

Outside of my day job, I typically use both Linux and Windows for my small business. ADL-P will be the chip to keep an eye on. Intel may finally have something that can replace the desktop. Great gaming performance, and a compute monster (I need good single threaded and great multithreaded performance). Runs Windows and Linux, plays all the games, builds all the software, etc.

We will see. Cautiously optimistic. My AMD laptop with a 95W 3070 was already a pleasant surprise.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I'm also waiting to see how AMD responds with Zen 3D before I make my final upgrade decision.

I really like that AMD is pushing more cache everywhere.

 

[TheELF]

I really like that AMD is pushing more cache everywhere.

Well it's the only thing you can do to improve performance without really doing anything, it's like putting an ssd into an old laptop, or to stay closer to how cache works like putting an optane disk in a system.

I just hope it's no too complicated and expensive to produce because if they raise their prices once again it's not going to look good at all.

 

[Zucker2k]

Using this as part of your argument against "sales are bad" doesn't really help.

I'm just saying it as it is, but the counter argument is also very strong: every DDR5 kit that's been produced for the client market is currently paired with an ADL-S cpu. That's a significant number for a processor that's not even a week old.

 

[coercitiv]

I contemplated creating an "Alder Lake - Builders Thread" to get those with the hardware talking about experiences with it. Ultimately passed on it knowing there would be undesirable (to put it politely) bleed over from this thread.

Do it Adam. Don't be daunted by any of that nonsense. If they start to off topic the build thread, report them, and it will get handled. Builder threads are not for versus flame wars, they are for help and advice.

I too recommend we get a builder thread, especially considering some of the memebers may seek information about cooler compatibility. There are some ADL boards out there with holes for both LGA 1700 and LGA 1200 coolers, which may seem smart at first before one finds out about the ~1mm Z-height difference which will probably affect mounting pressure and may result in lower cooler performance.

 

[Markfw]

I too recommend we get a builder thread, especially considering some of the memebers may seek information about cooler compatibility. There are some ADL boards out there with holes for both LGA 1700 and LGA 1200 coolers, which may seem smart at first before one finds out about the ~1mm Z-height difference which will probably affect mounting pressure and may result in lower cooler performance.

As a moderator, I fully support a builder thread !!! Go for it. @AdamK47

 

[biostud]

I'm not sure if you're joking. If reddit is any indication, the only thing holding most people up from their builds are LGA 1700 retention kits and compatible coolers, and DDR5 stock. Those who went ahead and bought DDR5 already are up and running. An impatient bunch have turned to DDR4, and some are also playing the waiting game to see if there are going to be any bugs while weighing whether to go DDR4 or DDR5.

What is holding me from building a new computer is the lack of video cards/price (also I really don't have the time to game ATM). And if they were available I would definitely wait to so what zen3D would bring. But in itself ADL is the first intel CPU in a long time I wouldn't discard at launch. But on the other hand it is not so much better than zen3 that it is a no brainer.

 

[DrMrLordX]

For the best I guess. Hardware Unboxed had a video suggesting Alder Lake's sales have been bad. Normally I would be skeptical cuz Youtubers but from what I'm seeing that looks correct. Only the i9 seems to have any demand and it's basically OOS.

That's weird. The 12900k seems like the least desirable Alder Lake-S part at its relative price point. 12600k has some solid use cases.

 

[vissarix]

But on the other hand it is not so much better than zen3 that it is a no brainer.

Yeah an i9 12900k 24t beating a 32t 5950x on MT and murdering it on ST while also costing less is ''not much better''

 

[biostud]

That's weird. The 12900k seems like the least desirable Alder Lake-S part at its relative price point. 12600k has some solid use cases.

Probably the least yield/stock and most popular for those who want the latest and greatest as fast as possible. Builders who opts for a 12600k are probably also more likely to be a bit more relaxed regarding the timeframe buying one, would be my guess.

 

[arandomguy]

The current platform costs due to the pricing on z690 boards is likely skewing current adopters away more so from those that place a higher emphasis on value. If you're already paying a premium for the motherboard then you're more likely to also be in the category willing to pay a premium for the CPU.

If b660 boards price down closer to to b560 boards (which will likely entail a matching feature set as well such as no PCIe 5.0 support) that's potentially $100 in savings over adopting z690 now. Well actually higher, as off hand the lowest cost z690 boards have more limited availability. More value conscious buyers that would other more likely consider a 12600k are probably likely to want to wait on these.

The other consideration is also a ToC calculation factoring resale value. Historically Intel's i7/i9 CPU parts have maintained a resale premium over the i5s that makes the actual lifetime cost difference of the two much lower than the apparent upfront costs. As an aside this arguably a by product of Intel's limited upgradability per socket, as such the i7/i9 don't really get obsoleted (negligible improvements for 10+ years now) by the newer generations within each socket upgrade. Although one might wonder if this will hold with Raptor Lake and whether or not that will be the biggest same socket upgrade for Intel for at least well over a decade now.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Yeah an i9 12900k 24t beating a 32t 5950x on MT and murdering it on ST while also costing less is ''not much better''

This thread has multiple links to reviews showing the 12900k losing some MT benches. Sure you wanna stick with that statement?

 

[biostud]

Yeah an i9 12900k 24t beating a 32t 5950x on MT and murdering it on ST while also costing less is ''not much better''

If you run a workload that pushes the cores 100% for a long period of time some useres would consider the power draw as a deciding factor as well, and for that a 5950X beats the 12900K hands down. And hopefully you don't intend to buy a 5950X or 12900K primarily because of its excellent ST performance. Sure AMD probably needs to adjust some prices, but depending on your workflow you should decide what would be best for you it could be ADL, but it could also be zen3.

 

[TheELF]

If you run a workload that pushes the cores 100% for a long period of time some useres would consider the power draw as a deciding factor as well, and for that a 5950X beats the 12900K hands down.

You don't know that, nobody does because nobody benchmarks that way, setting your bios to max power usage is incredibly inefficient, not a single review uses PBP/TDP settings for both performance benches as well as power draw numbers in the same suit, so we have no idea how much this difference really is. It is going to be better for ryzen in most things but not by as much as reviews make you think.

 

[biostud]

You don't know that, nobody does because nobody benchmarks that way, setting your bios to max power usage is incredibly inefficient, not a single review uses PBP/TDP settings for both performance benches as well as power draw numbers in the same suit, so we have no idea how much this difference really is. It is going to be better for ryzen in most things but not by as much as reviews make you think.

I agree, and you could probably tweak ADL for better efficiency if that was your goal, and it would be interesting to see what results could be achieved with a performance/watt closer to zen3 for heavy workloads.

Intel Core i9-12900K Review: Alder Lake Arrives | TechSpot

Powerdraw gaming total system: (perf/watt is pretty much equal) with the 12900k being 7% faster average in the 10 games they tested.
5900x: 496W
5950x: 529W
12900k DDR5: 536W

Powerdraw Blender total system: (not so much)
5900x: 242W
5950x: 221W
12900k DDR5: 362W

 

[igor_kavinski]

Powerdraw gaming total system: (perf/watt is pretty much equal) with the 12900k being 7% faster average in the 10 games they tested.
5900x: 496W
5950x: 529W
12900k DDR5: 536W

Powerdraw Blender total system: (not so much)
5900x: 242W
5950x: 221W
12900k DDR5: 362W

Based on just these figures:

12900k gaming: Yay
12900k serious work: Nay

 

[Zepp]

good lord $320 for 3400G. is that the going price now?

 

[Heartbreaker]

Based on just these figures:

12900k gaming: Yay
12900k serious work: Nay

If your "serious work" is a CPU render farm. Sure. But not all "serious work" is.

It seems like Intel should consider an all E-Core server chip for those kinds of loads.

 

[Markfw]

Yeah an i9 12900k 24t beating a 32t 5950x on MT and murdering it on ST while also costing less is ''not much better''

SOMETIMES it win s in MT, and its does beat it ST, and sucks a lot of power doing it, and is a furnace.

I will take the 5950x.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

If your "serious work" is a CPU render farm. Sure. But not all "serious work" is.

It seems like Intel should consider an all E-Core server chip for those kinds of loads.

I'm waiting for the "OOPS! ALL E-CORES!" edition.

 

[blckgrffn]

good lord $320 for 3400G. is that the going price now?

Maybe, but it's largely irrelevant due to 5600G being sub $280. $200 w/board discount right now at MC, just checked and that surprised me.

Looks like 3400G prices are all over the place right this moment on eBay. Should be able to strike one at less than $200 with some patience/effort.

 

[Aikouka]

I too recommend we get a builder thread, especially considering some of the memebers may seek information about cooler compatibility. There are some ADL boards out there with holes for both LGA 1700 and LGA 1200 coolers, which may seem smart at first before one finds out about the ~1mm Z-height difference which will probably affect mounting pressure and may result in lower cooler performance.

Hm, as someone that went with an ASUS board to use with an LGA115x/12xx cooler (EK Quantum Velocity block), I'm now curious if I should've been more patient and waited for the LGA1700 block. Well, I guess I'll find out the hard way!

 

[Mopetar]

For the best I guess. Hardware Unboxed had a video suggesting Alder Lake's sales have been bad. Normally I would be skeptical cuz Youtubers but from what I'm seeing that looks correct. Only the i9 seems to have any demand and it's basically OOS.

Sales probably will be a bit low considering it's a new platform and new memory as well. That makes it a bit more to buy in to the idea right now and no doubt supply for the top end parts people are willing to go through those other hurdles for are in shortest supply. Who really wants to pay the early adopter tax on boards and DDR5 for an i5? The 12600K is pretty awesome, but for someone who's in the market for a $250 CPU the availability of similar boards, etc. is limited.

The other ugly problem is GPU availability. Unless you already have one it'll cost just as much as your new i9, high-end mother board, and shiny new DDR5 kit to get an upper mid-range card to go with it. I abandoned a new build that I was planning late last year due to lack of availability.