Alec Baldwin shoots and kills a woman, injures a man.

[imported_tajmahal]

Those involved continue to tapdance around the facts.

Lawyer for 'Rust' assistant director refuses to answer if he handed gun to Alec Baldwin

"Halls, who handed the gun to the actor, also believed the gun to be unloaded, per investigators, and told Baldwin and the crew that there were no charges or blanks in the firearm.

Halls' attorney, Lisa Torraco, joined Fox News' Martha MacCallum for an interview on "The Story," where she addressed the incident.
.....................................

"She also insisted that Halls did not handle the gun on the day of the incident as authorities previously stated in an affidavit obtained by Fox News detailing the ongoing investigation.

"This idea my client grabbed the gun and handed it to Baldwin absolutely did not happen," she said, but later backtracked and dodged questions about whether Halls handed the gun to Baldwin, despite McCallum asking whether Halls "doesn't know if he handed the gun to Alec Baldwin."

 

[JEDI]

Those involved continue to tapdance around the facts.

Lawyer for 'Rust' assistant director refuses to answer if he handed gun to Alec Baldwin

"Halls, who handed the gun to the actor, also believed the gun to be unloaded, per investigators, and told Baldwin and the crew that there were no charges or blanks in the firearm.

Halls' attorney, Lisa Torraco, joined Fox News' Martha MacCallum for an interview on "The Story," where she addressed the incident.
.....................................

"She also insisted that Halls did not handle the gun on the day of the incident as authorities previously stated in an affidavit obtained by Fox News detailing the ongoing investigation.

"This idea my client grabbed the gun and handed it to Baldwin absolutely did not happen," she said, but later backtracked and dodged questions about whether Halls handed the gun to Baldwin, despite McCallum asking whether Halls "doesn't know if he handed the gun to Alec Baldwin."

interesting cover your ass strategy.
if noone else saw him hand the gun to Alec, then it's just Alec's word vs his about how Alec got the gun

 

[JulesMaximus]

I still cannot figure out why Baldwin's finger was anywhere near the trigger with a gun. They will test the gun for a faulty (light) trigger. This entire incident is totally unacceptable. Who points a gun at a camera with people behind it in this day and age? At some point people need to realize that Baldwin is responsible for his own lack of gun safety.

There needs to be some context here. Actors, for the most part, are not gun people. Would you hand a loaded gun to someone who knows nothing about guns and expect them to know what to do with it? It’s like handing a gun to a child.

There are certain assumptions people on a movie set live by and one of those is that everyone on set is a professional and knows how to do their job. Alec Baldwin’s job is to act so if he is acting or practicing a scene where he pulls a gun, points it in a certain direction and pulls the trigger then that is what he does. You could argue that actors should be familiar with gun safety rules but really, their job is to make people believe they are actually the character they are portraying. No, this falls squarely on the armorer who handed Baldwin a loaded gun and told him it was a “cold gun.”

By the way, many prop guns are actually real guns capable of firing real bullets, as was the case here.

 

[Hans Gruber]

There needs to be some context here. Actors, for the most part, are not gun people. Would you hand a loaded gun to someone who knows nothing about guns and expect them to know what to do with it? It’s like handing a gun to a child.

There are certain assumptions people on a movie set live by and one of those is that everyone on set is a professional and knows how to do their job. Alec Baldwin’s job is to act so if he is acting or practicing a scene where he pulls a gun, points it in a certain direction and pulls the trigger then that is what he does. You could argue that actors should be familiar with gun safety rules but really, their job is to make people believe they are actually the character they are portraying. No, this falls squarely on the armorer who handed Baldwin a loaded gun and told him it was a “cold gun.”

By the way, many prop guns are actually real guns capable of firing real bullets, as was the case here.

I am not saying it's all Baldwin's fault. He is not a spring chicken when it comes to acting. Even though Hollywood is run by liberals. All the gun armorers are red necks who grew up with a gun under their pillows. Say what you want about them, they know gun safety. Accidents do happen but a live round finding it's way to a movie set for live action is unheard of. With regards to this young lady armorer. It's not sexist to question why nepotism landed her a job as an armorer without proper gun safety and gun training. If someone lacks confidence in their ability. They need more training or time as an under study.

My grandmother had a metal thing that looked just like a James Bond gun from the 60's. It was solid steel and had no trigger but looked just like a real gun. It probably weighed close 5lbs and you could beat someone to death with it. I question why they did not use those types of weapons when cameras are not rolling.

As a child I went to Universal Studios and watched the wild west shootout with stuntmen. They fired 100 shots easily and did stunts. They did that everyday (4 or 5 shows per day) and the only injuries would be from those 50 foot falls, not because of the firearms.

You have to look at the big picture and the long track record without a fatal on set gun related death.

 

[IronWing]

You have to look at the big picture and the long track record without a fatal on set gun related death.

Which is exactly why an actor shouldn't have to worry that a gun is loaded. The problem wasn't an actor pulling the trigger. The problem was that there was live ammo on the set, period.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Which is exactly why an actor shouldn't have to worry that a gun is loaded. The problem wasn't an actor pulling the trigger. The problem was that there was live ammo on the set, period.

Trust but verify means that if the gun is loaded, it's your responsibility to make sure the gun is clear.

 

[HomerJS]

Trust but verify means that if the gun is loaded, it's your responsibility to make sure the gun is clear.

Are you forgetting the word ACTOR? They are not trained in handling guns. They pretend. You have experts hired to do that very thing.

 

[IronWing]

Trust but verify means that if the gun is loaded, it's your responsibility to make sure the gun is clear.

It's a prop on a movie set. The actor has no such obligation.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Someone could have framed the AD, since he was mean to the low paid employees of the crew. They noticed on previous occasions what he was doing (picking up guns from the outside tray without checking them) and placed a loaded gun there. But then, all three guns would have to be loaded. Another simpler explanation is that someone sneaked off with one of the guns to plink and then placed it back without removing the remaining bullets.

'Rust' Armorer's Lawyers Suggest Live Bullet May Have Been 'Sabotage' (insider.com)

The armorer's lawyers are thinking similarly to my theory, except they think one of the staff who walked off may have put a live round into the dummy ammo box. It's entirely plausible.

 

[interchange]

I don't expect anyone directly involved or their lawyers are going to say anything which possibly exposes them to more liability. It's going to be a long time before this thing untangles, and if there are no criminal charges and the theater company settles things outside of court, we probably won't ever know exactly how this went down.

 

[pmv]

I don't expect anyone directly involved or their lawyers are going to say anything which possibly exposes them to more liability. It's going to be a long time before this thing untangles, and if there are no criminal charges and the theater company settles things outside of court, we probably won't ever know exactly how this went down.

Are you sure (that it could all disappear into some out-of-court memory-hole)? I would have thought that if there's a fatal workplace accident the state has an interest in the truth of what happened being fully established - if necessary so that improved regulations or industry practices can be put in place.

I find myself very resistant to the refrain here that Baldwin should have personally 'checked the gun'.

(Not entirely sure why I feel that way, except it would seem to imply that all employees everywhere, before performing any potentially hazardous operation, should first have to do an amateur double-check on the jobs of everybody else in the chain of work prior to them).

But it's not impossible that it might be decided that 'actors quickly checking a gun isn't loaded' should be 'standard practice' from now on. Or something else might have to change, like the regulation of who can be employed as an armourer. But whatever it is, it surely is important that it be established exactly what happened?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Trust but verify means that if the gun is loaded, it's your responsibility to make sure the gun is clear.

Honestly, 99% of actors would have zero idea how to clear a firearm. They know what direction the pointy end goes, that's it.

You could try arguing that understanding a tool is part of the job they're hired for, but you'll never get that. Humans just aren't wired to care enough to become experts at everything they're required to do. That's actually why we hire experts.

 

[Vic]

It's a prop on a movie set. The actor has no such obligation.

That there is confusion on this part can only be politically motivated IMO.
My take on all this is that the studios need to urgently revisit their gun safety procedures.

 

[Vic]

'Rust' Armorer's Lawyers Suggest Live Bullet May Have Been 'Sabotage' (insider.com)

The armorer's lawyers are thinking similarly to my theory, except they think one of the staff who walked off may have put a live round into the dummy ammo box. It's entirely plausible.

I see what the attorneys are doing there, and it is plausible. However, something even more plausible is that the supplier manufactures both live and dummy rounds at the same facility, and mistakes happen.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

I see what the attorneys are doing there, and it is plausible. However, something even more plausible is that the supplier manufactures both live and dummy rounds at the same facility, and mistakes happen.

Hey if we're gonna start putting the blame on gun and ammo manufacturers, I'm all in.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I see what the attorneys are doing there, and it is plausible. However, something even more plausible is that the supplier manufactures both live and dummy rounds at the same facility, and mistakes happen.

Given that it's known and unargued that there were live rounds at the set, much higher odds someone was fucking around with it off-hours for shooting soda cans and just didn't unload it when they were done.

 

[Vic]

Given that it's known and unargued that there were live rounds at the set, much higher odds someone was fucking around with it off-hours for shooting soda cans and just didn't unload it when they were done.

Can't discount any of this as it seems the firearms and ammo were not properly secured on set.

 

[Vic]

Hey if we're gonna start putting the blame on gun and ammo manufacturers, I'm all in.

I doubt the manufacturers face much risk here besides the loss of a tiny fraction of their business.

 

[JEDIYoda]

If it was a prop gun for a movie why was he shooting at a cinematographer and his director?

https://news.yahoo.com/woman-shot-death-set-alec-023821856.html

"
A woman has died and a man has been injured after actor Alec Baldwin fired a prop gun on a New Mexico film set.

Police in the US state said Mr Baldwin discharged the weapon during filming for the 19th Century western Rust.

The woman was taken to hospital but died of her injuries. The man, the film's director, was receiving emergency care.


A spokesperson for Mr Baldwin told AP news agency the incident involved the misfiring of a prop gun with blanks.

"The woman has been named as Halyna Hutchins, 42, who was working as director of photography. The man being treated is Joel Souza, 48, the film's director.

Police are still investigating the incident at Bonanza Creek Ranch, a popular filming location, and no charges have been filed.

The Santa Fe New Mexican, a local newspaper, reported that 68-year-old Mr Baldwin was seen outside the local sheriff's office in tears on Thursday."

This was not intentional you goof ball.......your thread title is misleading....

 

[Lanyap]

If AB was following the strict established protocols for handling a prop gun on a set for rehearsal then I doubt he will be held responsible.

I hope authorities were able to get fingerprints from the live round. They could at least determine who put the live round in the gun if bare hands/fingers were used.

 

[JEDI]

I hope authorities were able to get fingerprints from the live round. They could at least determine who put the live round in the gun if bare hands/fingers were used.

surprised i havent read anything about the shell casing, fingerprints or otherwise

 

[imported_tajmahal]

This was not intentional you goof ball.......your thread title is misleading....

Bullshit, Alec Baldwin shot and killed a woman and injured a man. He pulled the trigger, he was practicing with a real firearm and was drawing it from a crossdraw holster. He had to pull the gun from the holster, cock it and pull the trigger while pointing the gun at Halyna. Even a fucking ignorant dumbass like yourself and certainly a veteran actor like Alec Baldwin should have known not to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger.

 

[igor_kavinski]

'Rust' shooting may have been sabotage, say armorer's lawyers (france24.com)

Asked why Gutierrez-Reed had left the firearms unattended, Bowles said she had been asked by producers to shoulder additional duties as a "key props assistant," and was attending to those at the time of the shooting.

The producers really need to end up in jail, at least the ones responsible for this decision.

 

[HomerJS]

Bullshit, Alec Baldwin shot and killed a woman and injured a man. He pulled the trigger, he was practicing with a real firearm and was drawing it from a crossdraw holster. He had to pull the gun from the holster, cock it and pull the trigger while pointing the gun at Halyna. Even a fucking ignorant dumbass like yourself and certainly a veteran actor like Alec Baldwin should have known not to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger.

Despite your wish to hold Alec Baldwin 100% responsible because he used to insult Trump, while he did pull the trigger he won't be legally responsible.

Don't get upset.

 

[interchange]

Are you sure (that it could all disappear into some out-of-court memory-hole)? I would have thought that if there's a fatal workplace accident the state has an interest in the truth of what happened being fully established - if necessary so that improved regulations or industry practices can be put in place.

I find myself very resistant to the refrain here that Baldwin should have personally 'checked the gun'.

(Not entirely sure why I feel that way, except it would seem to imply that all employees everywhere, before performing any potentially hazardous operation, should first have to do an amateur double-check on the jobs of everybody else in the chain of work prior to them).

But it's not impossible that it might be decided that 'actors quickly checking a gun isn't loaded' should be 'standard practice' from now on. Or something else might have to change, like the regulation of who can be employed as an armourer. But whatever it is, it surely is important that it be established exactly what happened?

No I'm not sure. The protocols clearly exist and were not followed here, but I'm not sure at what level this is regulated.