Alec Baldwin shoots and kills a woman, injures a man.

[igor_kavinski]

2. Partially pull the hammer back before the first latch is caught and before the cylinder rotates. Which is also dumb.

But why would he pull the hammer like that while cross drawing?

 

[pcgeek11]

But why would he pull the hammer like that while cross drawing?

Because he doesn't know what he is doing, I assume.

I saw an interview when he claimed he didn't pull the trigger. He said that he pulled the hammer back and released it and the gun went off without a trigger pull.

 

[pcgeek11]

But why would he pull the hammer like that while cross drawing?

Trying to be a realistic western draw it was a common practice to pull the hammer back in a gun fight when drawing the weapon from the holster so when you have the weapon out it is ready to fire. Time is critical in a draw gunfight.

 

[Paratus]

Trying to be a realistic western draw it was a common practice to pull the hammer back in a gun fight so when you have the weapon out it is ready to fire. Time is critical in a draw gunfight.

I think a lot people don't realize it but a gun doesn't fire when the trigger is pulled, it fires when the hammer (firing pin, etc) hits the primer with enough force to detonate.

So it's entirely possible he partially pulled the hammer back and accidentally let go before it was fully cocked.

 

[pcgeek11]

I think a lot people don't realize it but a gun doesn't fire when the trigger is pulled, it fires when the hammer (firing pin, etc) hits the primer with enough force to detonate.

So it's entirely possible he partially pulled the hammer back and accidentally let go before it was fully cocked.

Yes, as I proved with my experiment.

See post # 450.

 

[Paratus]

Yes, as I proved with my experiment.

See post # 450.

I know. I was actually agreeing with you in a roundabout way.


(Don't let it go to your head)

 

[pcgeek11]

I know. I was actually agreeing with you in a roundabout way.


(Don't let it go to your head)

Trust me, I know you'll be on my ass again soon.

 

[pmv]

Pictures of Hannah posing with guns have always bothered me. She looks like someone who is handling them becasue she has to, doesn't look comfortable with them. Not a good look for someone who supposedly who makes their living handling them.

And now she admits she didn't have much training? Suing an ammo company for mixing rounds? (That doesn't happen).

No surprise here. She never should have had that job, and hopefully never will again. A person like that as armorer is a danger to others regardless of the lead being an asshole.

It is funny how the magats so desperately want Baldwin to be responsible for this though, they see this as some kind of comeuppance, also some kind of bizarre commentary on liberal leaning people and guns. Baldwin raking dipshit over the coals on SNL with his impressions - unforgivable. Just another hollywood lib that belongs in prison.

Quite possible he _was_ responsible, at least as far as being a producer and being partly responsible for hiring Hannah. Sounds, so far, like he was responsible for an unsafe work environment.

I agree the distasteful near 'glee' that the Trumpoids seem to have about this horrific affair is probably motivated entirely by snowflake upset at those Trump impressions, but I don't feel inclined to defend Baldwin, not in his capacity as a bad boss.

 

[Drach]

Alex said that he pulled the hammer back and then released it.

I own several single action revolvers and in one certain case it is possible for the gun to fire without pulling the trigger. I tried it yesterday and managed to fire the weapon without a trigger pull 3 out of 4 times.

1. There has to be a live round in the cylinder under the hammer. Which is a bad practice and not recommended.

2. Partially pull the hammer back before the first latch is caught and before the cylinder rotates. Which is also dumb.

3. Release the hammer and allow it to fall. Hammer hits primer and Boom.

I did this 4 times and 3 of the 4 times the pistol went off.

Please get your pistol fixed.
My 1911 never has issues with misfires.
Yes I know, apples and oranges but still ur shit is broke.

 

[pcgeek11]

Please get your pistol fixed.
My 1911 never has issues with misfires.
Yes I know, apples and oranges but still ur shit is broke.

No, it isn't broken. If you follow the steps as I outlined above exactly any single action revolver could fire without a trigger pull.

Your 1911 has no place in this discussion. You need to study the single action mechanism used on the subject firearms. With a round under the hammer you could strike the hammer and cause it to fire. That is why most 6 shooters were actually 5 shooters as intelligent people did not carry with a live round under the hammer for this very reason.

It is an authentic reproduction of a Remington 1858 New Army Revolver. Granted it is a cap and ball revolver instead of a cartridge but the single action and mechanism is the same.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Alex said that he pulled the hammer back and then released it.

I own several single action revolvers and in one certain case it is possible for the gun to fire without pulling the trigger. I tried it yesterday and managed to fire the weapon without a trigger pull 3 out of 4 times.

1. There has to be a live round in the cylinder under the hammer. Which is a bad practice and not recommended.

2. Partially pull the hammer back before the first latch is caught and before the cylinder rotates. Which is also dumb.

3. Release the hammer and allow it to fall. Hammer hits primer and Boom.

I did this 4 times and 3 of the 4 times the pistol went off.

If you don't have an Navy revolver Squidward, I will be very disappoint.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Yes, as I proved with my experiment.

See post # 450.

Is it the same model and generation as the gun that Alec Baldwin murdered his videographer with ? It would matter in your experiment. In your test did the rounds actually fire or did the hammer just drop?

Nevermind, not the same revolver so it was an invalid test.

 

[Paratus]

Is it the same model and generation as the gun that Alec Baldwin murdered his videographer with ? It would matter in your experiment. In your test did the rounds actually fire or did the hammer just drop?

Nevermind, not the same revolver so it was an invalid test.

You're wrong.

 

[gorobei]

strictly fyi, (since i believe the revolver in question was an old colt) but certain brands of sa revolvers have transfer bar safeties which require the trigger to be pulled in order for the gun to fire. ruger, beretta, uberti, eaa have transfer bars on certain models allowing safe chambering of 6 rounds.

 

[pcgeek11]

If you don't have an Navy revolver Squidward, I will be very disappoint.

Actually I do...

 

[igor_kavinski]

Actually I do...

PICS!

 

[pcgeek11]

Is it the same model and generation as the gun that Alec Baldwin murdered his videographer with ? It would matter in your experiment. In your test did the rounds actually fire or did the hammer just drop?

Nevermind, not the same revolver so it was an invalid test.

Well they wouldn't give me the same revolver as the police still have it. /s

I disagree as the single action works exactly the same as the time period piece that he used in his movie unless it was modified in some way.

The hammer has two locked positions. First is after the cylinder is rotated, the second position is fully cocked. If he released the hammer before the first lock position it can hit the primer with enough force to cause a reaction. Conclusion is that it is possible to have a discharge without pulling the trigger in a small defined series of events.

Sorry you disagree, but those are the facts.

 

[pcgeek11]

PICS!

It isn't here with me it is at my Brothers house in GA.

1861 Navy. I don't remember the maker as it was a long time ago (early 1970's) in Hawaii when I bought it.

 

[rommelrommel]

strictly fyi, (since i believe the revolver in question was an old colt) but certain brands of sa revolvers have transfer bar safeties which require the trigger to be pulled in order for the gun to fire. ruger, beretta, uberti, eaa have transfer bars on certain models allowing safe chambering of 6 rounds.

This is correct, it is model by model as some replicas are authentic and do not have changes, and some manufacturers added them at various points in time.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

It isn't here with me it is at my Brothers house in GA.

1861 Navy. I don't remember the maker as it was a long time ago (early 1970's) in Hawaii when I bought it.

You know how the internet works; pics or it didn't happen.

 

[pcgeek11]

This is correct, it is model by model as some replicas are authentic and do not have changes, and some manufacturers added them at various points in time.

Trying to locate the exact model of Baldwin's revolver and came across this article in newsweek.

How the Gun Alec Baldwin Used in Set Shooting Could Have Accidentally Fired

"I let go of the hammer and the gun goes off. I never pulled the trigger," Baldwin said in an interview with ABC.

www.newsweek.com

Also a youtube link:

.45-caliber Colt revolver , Italian-made Pietta Long Colt revolver.

The Reload—a publication that focuses on the analysis of firearms policies, reporting the details of big gun stories and about aspects of gun ownership in America—shed some light on how such a misfire could happen.

The publication goes on to say that a single-action revolver with the old-style firing mechanism can fire without either the hammer being cocked or the trigger being pulled but if there is a live round, a "sharp jolt" can lead to a shot.

"When the hammer is down on that kind of revolver, the firing pin protrudes and, if a live round is loaded in the chamber underneath, a sharp enough jolt can cause the pin to strike the round's primer with enough force to set it off," it explains.

 

[pcgeek11]

You know how the internet works; pics or it didn't happen.

OK then it didn't happen.

 

[DaaQ]

Kind of surprised pcgeek and taj are in disagreement.

Props to you pcgeek. Good info.

 

[Pontius Dilate]

I have an authentic Colt SAA manufactured in 1900, and I used to have an Uberti (Pietta) SAA clone. Some Piettas were manufactured with transfer bar safety systems, some were not, have not seen whether the movie gun in question had one or not.

With the original Colt, there are four clicks as you pull the hammer back:

1. First click is a standoff to pull the firing pin back away from the cylinder so it can't touch the primer, hammer locks back within a few millimeters. The trigger locks in this position. The gun cannot fire from this position except by slamming the hammer forward to overcome the 'false sear', which would mess up the trigger and hammer.
2. Second click is back another centimeter or so of travel. This unlocks the cylinder so it can turn, trigger remains locked and the rest is as above. This is the position to put the gun in when you're loading/unloading/removing the cylinder.
3. Pulling the hammer back from the second position, the cylinder is rotating to the next cartridge, and the third click is heard when the cylinder catch is released to stop the cylinder when it's in position to fire the next cartridge (60 degrees of rotation). Trigger is still locked. If you drop the hammer anywhere before you get to the fully cocked position, it falls back to the second position.
4. Fourth click is the hammer locking in a fully cocked position. Trigger is unlocked, and pulling the trigger will drop the hammer and fire the cartridge, regardless if you keep your finger on the trigger from that point on. If the sear surfaces are worn, you could overcome the lock by slamming the hammer forward. Otherwise, pulling the trigger is the only way to release the hammer.

The Uberti I had operated the same way, except it had the transfer bar safety, which is only disengaged while the trigger is pulled. If you slammed the hammer forward from any position above, the transfer bar safety system would not allow the firing pin to reach the cartridge. Theoretically you could pull the trigger on a fully cocked gun, and if you released the trigger before the hammer fully fell it could end up being stopped by the safety. In either gun, once you start pulling the hammer back, it has to go all the way to fully cocked before it can be brought fully forward again by pulling the trigger.

Long story short, unless the gun was badly worn, broken or otherwise malfunctioning, there's no way you could simply drop the hammer from any position without touching the trigger and have it fire.

 

[pcgeek11]

I have an authentic Colt SAA manufactured in 1900, and I used to have an Uberti (Pietta) SAA clone. Some Piettas were manufactured with transfer bar safety systems, some were not, have not seen whether the movie gun in question had one or not.

With the original Colt, there are four clicks as you pull the hammer back.

Long story short, unless the gun was badly worn, broken or otherwise malfunctioning, there's no way you could simply drop the hammer from any position without touching the trigger and have it fire.

After further investigation on this I found that Colt implemented the 4 positions for the hammer at the same time ( about 1880 ) it implemented the .45 caliber for military use. That and the transfer bar system would negate my post for all intents and purposes if the pistol used in the movie had these features.

My tests were totally invalid as the weapon I used was an older design 1858 and the Colt in the movie was an 1880 style revolver and should have had these newer safety features.