Alec Baldwin shoots and kills a woman, injures a man.

[Paratus]

It's interesting that they gave a plea deal to assistant director Halls:

According to an administrative complaint filed this month by the New Mexico environment department’s occupational health and safety bureau against the production company, Gutierrez Reed told Halls to alert her when Baldwin arrived, so she could perform a safety check on his firearm. The complaint goes on to say that the armorer left the church “expecting Mr. Halls to notify her when Mr. Baldwin arrived.” Instead, the complaint says, Halls handed the revolver directly to Baldwin.

Some background on Halls:

Halls had been the subject of complaints over safety and his behavior on set during two productions in 2019, two people who worked closely with him told CNN in 2021. The complaints included a disregard for safety protocols for weapons and pyrotechnics use, blocked fire lanes and exits and instances of inappropriately sexual behavior in the workplace.

 

[Bitek]

Then that's a monumental fuckup. I'd still be finding who brought that live round on the set and nail them to a fucking wall.

No doubt. I think that's why AB is likely fucked as the producer. Halls needs to get slammed too.

The armourer is screwed too, tho I feel slightly bad if it was some numnut fooling around with your guns that led to this.

Who is to say the live round didn't come from Halls?.. not saying this actually, but if I were her lawyer, I'd be considering it bc IDK how else you save her ass.

Interesting he is the one with the plea deal.

 

[Paratus]

Funny you say that. Just found out this site exists.

Die Hard (1988)

Die Hard (1988) tech specs : shot on Panavision Panaflex Gold Camera and Carl Zeiss Planar 50 mm f0.7 Lens (Modified by Ed DiGiulio), Carl Zeiss Planar 50mm with Kollmorgen Adaptor 36.5 mm f0.7 (Modified by Ed DiGiulio), Cooke Anamorphic Lenses, Panavision C Series Anamorphic Lenses, Panavision...

shotonwhat.com

View attachment 74958
View attachment 74959

To be sure, I wouldn't stand behind that camera with that firearm any single-digit degrees off-center without knowing it was unloaded.

That shot was getting a lot work back in the late 80's They did similar one in Lethal Weapon 2 in this clip at 3:04

He's pointing the gun off axis but almost at the camera.

 

[pmv]

In the CNN video earlier, the expert said that he did not in fact get the gun directly from the armorer.

The "cold gun" declaration came from the assistant director, Halls, who isn't qualified or responsible to do that.

There were prop guns set out by the armourer, but she was not present. Halls picked one up, claimed it was cold (because he's a know-nothing reckless idiot), AB listened to someone not qualified without the armourer clearing it, then fired it.

This was in the affidavit.

Lots of fuck ups to go around.

From that description I'm surprised Halls is getting off so lightly. As you say, sounds as if there was staggeringly careless behaviour all around on this set, to the point where maybe they should all be collectively charged, tried, and share a cell. I can't judge who is more culpable, Halls for doing that, Baldwin for taking it from him, or the armourer for letting that happen, or back to Baldwin again for being in charge of the whole farrago and hiring these people.

 

[Bitek]

That shot was getting a lot work back in the late 80's They did similar one in Lethal Weapon 2 in this clip at 3:04

He's pointing the gun off axis but almost at the camera.

Geeking out for second on this, I'm not so sure that gun fires a live round (even off axis.)

I can't do frame by frame, but it looks to me like the whole screen flashes evenly at the "gunshot."

That's not how revolvers fire. It looks like sfx. I don't see any muzzle rise either. Just movement from a heavy trigger pull.

There are actually significant flames that shoot out the side of the cylinder because there is a gap between it and the barrel as the cyl rotates. You can see this when you fire, and you have to be conscious about it in your grip else torch your fingers.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

So your concern is more for punishing the one who pulled the trigger, rather than preventing someone from being shot? That's weird, man.

In lefty world i guess punishing a murderer is weird.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Why do you humiliate yourself like this?

Thanks for responding. You make it all worth it.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

You may not be aware but many movie cameras have human operators. Not saying that they couldn't be left running unattended for a shot. But it's easy enough for someone to be behind the camera for the shot at 3:45 even if they weren't supposed to be.

And again, I don't particularly care if he or that he did pull the trigger. I don't see it as something reckless done by Baldwin. If the shot they wanted was him pointing the weapon at the camera and pulling the trigger then that was his job as an actor. There are ways to do that safely. The primary failure and potential negligence was that a live round was allowed onto the set and into that gun. His making fun of your preferred politician doesn't factor into whether he was negligent or not.

Nice vintage shot.

 

[VRAMdemon]

This is all normally true but it's not applicable to acting. The actual purpose in this case is to look like you're shooting at/killing someone. Yeah you can fudge it with 'movie magic' but if there's a scene with both people in it and a gun, someone's pointing it in a way they shouldn't be, based on gun safety.

The rules are different with movies because we collectively demand it. We want people getting shot at, driving unsafe, swinging swords and jumping off buildings and flying in wing suits and all sorts of other asinine shit that if someone slips up just once, you have injury or death.

That said, the actor is a fucking tool of the cinematic experience, expected to behave as told. Some become actually proficient at what they do (Keanu Reeves), while others I'd never expect to actually know how to load the gun, much less verify it's loaded with blanks. If this is something we collectively have a problem with, we probably shouldn't let actors hold firearms, and likely a whole host of other shit they somehow have managed to do for a century without being masters of it.

Yeah I understand. The only other instances of something like this I know of are Brandon Lee and Jon-Erik Hexum, but there may be others. So it doesn't happen often. I’m assuming that most film companies and actors take their responsibility for firearm safety seriously. But that doesn’t amount to saying that the last person holding the gun doesn’t have to. It has to be a complete chain of gun safety. If it breaks down in a particular case or on a particular set, there can be personal liability.

There are firearms trainings for actors. Not sure how "mandatory" it is in the industry.

http://www.bulletproofset.ca/page1/page4/actors_workshop.html

Here’s what the Screen Actors Guild has to say about it ...

https://www.sagaftra.org/files/safety_bulletins_amptp_part_1_9_3_0.pdf

IMO... ALL actors should get firearms training before entering a set using real or prop firearms.

From what I remember about the Rust case, they were using nonunion staff, inexperienced staff. Some of the staff had walked off the set because of poor working conditions and numerous other safety violations and incidents. I'm sure there are articles still out there, and maybe up thread on how this particular movie set and production was known to be a complete shitshow. Baldwin as the producer was responsible for the whole operation might be why he is being charged. If I remember correctly...John Landis got off for maintaining an unsafe Twilight Zone set that lead to the death of actor Vic Morrow and two child actors.

Again, Baldwin will either be acquitted, or may plead to some lesser charge of negligence or possibly some other conviction of the lesser charge. I guess that will depend on whatever advice from legal counsel he receives.

 

[Paratus]

Nice vintage shot.

We were talking about a shot done in the 80’s.

They still get behind them today

 

[ivwshane]

It's weird how obsessed Tajy is with this case.

When in a cult you attack anyone that has ever hurt your cult.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

We were talking about a shot done in the 80’s.

They still get behind them today

You did know that Halyna Hutchins was the cinematographer on the set and not operating the camera?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

In lefty world i guess punishing a murderer is weird.

Not talking about this case, talking about future cases. Should this be prevented in the future via regulation, yes or no?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

The only other instances of something like this I know of are Brandon Lee and Jon-Erik Hexum, but there may be others.

That wasn't even a failure of the armorer though from what I remember, it was a freak accident caused by what we'd now consider to be an inadequate blank. No live round was involved in that incident.

 

[ondma]

The armorer that he hired is also being charged.

Yes, but with the same charge as Baldwin. IMO, she is the one who should bear the bulk of the responsibility. Not to mention the ultimate responsibility lies with whoever brought live rounds onto the set. And of course the assistant producer got off with a slap in the wrist for throwing Baldwin under the bus. My problem with the charges against Baldwin are not so much the charge itself, (although it is still problematic IMO), as it is the upward charge in the sentence.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Not talking about this case, talking about future cases. Should this be prevented in the future via regulation, yes or no?

Seriously do you really believe that regulation would stop it ? Seriously?


I mean it did so much for marijuana use and during prohibition for alcohol use.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Yes, but with the same charge as Baldwin. IMO, she is the one who should bear the bulk of the responsibility. Not to mention the ultimate responsibility lies with whoever brought live rounds onto the set. And of course the assistant producer got off with a slap in the wrist for throwing Baldwin under the bus. My problem with the charges against Baldwin are not so much the charge itself, (although it is still problematic IMO), as it is the upward charge in the sentence.

I don't disagree. It's pretty normal for criminals to turn on each other in exchange for a lighter sentence.

 

[fskimospy]

Thanks for responding. You make it all worth it.

This is so sad, haha.

 

[skyking]

How a live round ended in that gun and filming set is still a big question. It is/was the armorers responsibility to check that it wasn't.
Baldwin was told it was "cold", trusted whoever handled the gun to him. The revolvers trigger needed to be pulled to fire the gun, as verified by the FBI.
As voiced by other actors in other sets where guns were involved, they always checked if it was "cold" indeed. Baldwin was negligent for not doing so.

@SKORPI0 I will answer your first question.
The crew, the armorer had live ammunition on the set and were using the gun in question for target practice.
That was an egregious error in safety practices. There is never a need for live ammo on a set. Every effect needed can be provided with squibs and other post filming effects. It is a cardinal rule of safety, no live ammo ever.
That is the first rule and they broke that one rather casually, and nobody called for a safety stand down to get things back on track.
The target practice was just people fucking around and it got somebody killed.
Prosecutors have a lot of pressure on them to charge and convict someone. How they go at the armorer will determine if they succeed there. Baldwin has culpability for how he was letting his production operate, but the responsibility will fall back on the designated expert, IMO.

Brandon Lee was the last accidental gunshot victim in a film production. That was a complicated fuckup.
They had some rounds that they removed powder from, then re-seated the bullets in for doing dramatic closeup work where you could see the bullets in a revolver. They did not remove the primer and somebody pulled the trigger. The primer was enough to send the real bullet up into the barrel where it stopped.
Nobody noticed that. The thing went "pop" when it was supposedly de-energized but nobody looked any closer and nobody cleared the barrel.
They loaded blank rounds for a scene and when the round was triggered it imparted just about the same amount of energy as a regular round, and killed Lee.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Seriously do you really believe that regulation would stop it ? Seriously?


I mean it did so much for marijuana use and during prohibition for alcohol use.

Uh, a regulation that requires that all film and stage sets require nonfunctional firearms? Yeah pretty sure that'd prevent live rounds from being fired at people. These aren't random 16 year olds getting into pot and beer, it's industry professionals that need to keep their jobs.

So answer the question, are you more concerned with punishing people, or preventing death, injury, and trauma?

 

[Paratus]

You did know that Halyna Hutchins was the cinematographer on the set and not operating the camera?

You do understand cinematographers use cameras? And tend to be around the cameras to view the scene?

Here is a pic of the victim:

 

[Bitek]

@SKORPI0 I will answer your first question.
The crew, the armorer had live ammunition on the set and were using the gun in question for target practice.

That was an egregious error in safety practices. There is never a need for live ammo on a set. Every effect needed can be provided with squibs and other post filming effects. It is a cardinal rule of safety, no live ammo ever.
That is the first rule and they broke that one rather casually, and nobody called for a safety stand down to get things back on track.
The target practice was just people fucking around and it got somebody killed.
Prosecutors have a lot of pressure on them to charge and convict someone. How they go at the armorer will determine if they succeed there. Baldwin has culpability for how he was letting his production operate, but the responsibility will fall back on the designated expert, IMO.

Brandon Lee was the last accidental gunshot victim in a film production. That was a complicated fuckup.
They had some rounds that they removed powder from, then re-seated the bullets in for doing dramatic closeup work where you could see the bullets in a revolver. They did not remove the primer and somebody pulled the trigger. The primer was enough to send the real bullet up into the barrel where it stopped.
Nobody noticed that. The thing went "pop" when it was supposedly de-energized but nobody looked any closer and nobody cleared the barrel.
They loaded blank rounds for a scene and when the round was triggered it imparted just about the same amount of energy as a regular round, and killed Lee.

OMG, I hadn't heard this. This is confirmed?

Holy shit that's epically dumb. They are all going to the pokey.

 

[Pens1566]

IIRC she was actually operating the camera at the time.

 

[Vic]

OMG, I hadn't heard this. This is confirmed?

Holy shit that's epically dumb. They are all going to the pokey.

There's a solid case against the armorer. She done f'ed up.
The case against Baldwin though is a political witch hunt.

 

[Vic]

In lefty world i guess punishing a murderer is weird.

More like in righty world telling the truth is weird. The only thing you sick freedom-hating fucks know how to do is lie.