*ALERT* Connect3D GTO No Longer Moddable!

[Sunrise089]

Originally posted by: v8envy

Originally posted by: Sunrise089
2 observations:

1) I know 3d mark isn't a game, but is it just me, or do these non-unlocked cards seem to take a VERY small hit from loosing out on 25% of the pipelines of an unlocked GTO? If game performance in FPS correlates to 3dmark scores than the fact that the cards don't unlock doesn't really matter that much.

Those scores are from people with 25%+ overclocks on their cards, you know. Stock, there is quite a bit of 3dmark difference.

Right, but the scores from people with unlocked + 25% overclocked seem to be pretty close to the scores of people with just the 25% overclock

Originally posted by: v8envy

Originally posted by: Sunrise089
2) If there is a major fall off in game performance, the buying choices just got a whole lot easier. IMHO the GTO is still the choice for those who want to overclock and run fairly low resolutions, but then the 7800gt and gtx seem to be the clear choices for everyone who wants to play at high resolutions. I know some will recommend the 6800gs, but compared to the unlocked/overclocked GTO its a card that costs $25+ more and performs slightly slower. With stock overclocked eVGA 7800GTs down to $309 shipped I think the 6800GS is facing a shrinking market, but I guess thats better than $250 X800XLs, which seem to have no market at all at this point.

Keep in mind the $250 XL is available for AGP, for which NVidia doesn't (yet) have much competition. The 6800GS in AGP may address that. Also, not everyone wants to delve into the wild and wooly and oftentimes fun world of bios flashing and overclocking.

Anyhoo, my thinking:

<$100 -- integrated graphics, discrete cards don't offer enough performance to bother
$100-$130 -- 6600GT has an exclusive stranglehold on this price point
$140-$160 -- X800GTO
$160 - $200 -- Big hole here. People will either go much cheaper, or toss in a few more bucks to go up a segment
$210 -- 6800GS
$240 - $250 -- X800XL, X850 Pro, X800GTO^2
$300 -- 7800 GT
$400-$unlimited -- 7800 GTX 512, SLI GT, X1800, etc. Anything over $350 is all about the e-peen size, and price/performance goes completely out of the window. Buyers in this segment won't blink at a $50 price difference, it'll take a price delta of at least $150 to catch their attention. Honorable mention to the 2x 7800 GT for best price/performance in this segment.

People usualy segment by $50 increments, which is a HUGE mistake in the lower end. $50 bucks down there is 25-50% of the card cost, and is irrelevant at the high end. If you use finer grained pricing resolution, you can see that there's a niche for most mainstream products.

I don't dispute your price points and card choices, but to me I don't see (for PCIe users) any point where I would purchase anything other than a X800GTO or a 7800GT. For a budget buyer who doesn't want integrated the promise of a 256 meg overclocked GTO over a 6600gt seems to always be worth the reletively minor extra cost. Then then 6800GS seems to offer too small of an upgrade over the overclocked X800GTO to be worthwile (costs up to $50 more but barely faster). Finally the X800GTO^2 or X800XL arn't enough of an improvement over the X800GTO to be worth almost $100 more, but in addition they are almost as much as a 7800GT.

 

[v8envy]

Originally posted by: Sunrise089
Right, but the scores from people with unlocked + 25% overclocked seem to be pretty close to the scores of people with just the 25% overclock

Something is rotten in Denmark. Stock X800GT at 400 core/490 mem should be around 4500 3dmarks, X850XTPE at 520 core/560 ram around 6200. Which is the 25% difference in pipes, or 25% overclock. But not both, which I think is your point.


[/quote] I don't dispute your price points and card choices, but to me I don't see (for PCIe users) any point where I would purchase anything other than a X800GTO or a 7800GT. For a budget buyer who doesn't want integrated the promise of a 256 meg overclocked GTO over a 6600gt seems to always be worth the reletively minor extra cost. Then then 6800GS seems to offer too small of an upgrade over the overclocked X800GTO to be worthwile (costs up to $50 more but barely faster). Finally the X800GTO^2 or X800XL arn't enough of an improvement over the X800GTO to be worth almost $100 more, but in addition they are almost as much as a 7800GT.[/quote]

Wholeheartedly agreed. The X800GTO for risktakers/tinkerers who don't mind ebaying off hardware that doesn't unlock or overclock well, and 7800GT for gamers who aren't hardware enthusiasts. Nothing less than 850 XT is sufficient for some current games and games about to hit the shelves at the kinds of resolutions even mainstream LCDs and HDTVs support.

Oh, and the difference between $100 and $150 is... 50%. I know people in the market for a '$100 video card' who would buy a 6600GT, but would not consider an X800GTO no matter how fast it is. Price/performance is completely driven by price at the lower end, performance only matters if the price delta is +- $10.

 

[djstylze]

Ouch.. kinda sucks to think that if I could have ordered it from Monarch that I may have been able to unlock it. I'm getting at least 5800 3dmarks, but I feel that if I could have unlocked it I could be seeing 6200.

Anyone know what that translates to in FPS?

 

[v8envy]

Originally posted by: djstylze
Ouch.. kinda sucks to think that if I could have ordered it from Monarch that I may have been able to unlock it. I'm getting at least 5800 3dmarks, but I feel that if I could have unlocked it I could be seeing 6200.

Anyone know what that translates to in FPS?

Reading back, it looks like you've gotta be at around 560 core/540 mem or so to get 5800 3dmarks. If you had unlocked, who knows what your core speed would have been. If you had 520/560, then yeah, 6000+ would have been doable. If you hit 580 on 16 pipes, it'd have left the X850XTPE in the dust. =)

 

[Zap]

Update on my unlocked card from Monarch.

Core 469
RAM 569
Temp 72ºC

I'm not seeing as huge a core overclock as others, but that's okay. Man, this card gets HOT HOT HOT. Can't even leave a finger on the PCB and touching the RAM is asking to get burned - got a shiney spot on my thumb from being burned. Overclocking was done in open air at ambient 66ºF (as programmed on thermostat).

 

[videoclone]

Originally posted by: WhoBeDaPlaya
Well, got one of them finally to 580/545.
Just might keep it, since it's basically a X800XL/X850 Pro (performance-wise),
both of which cost >= $250.

WhoBeDaPlayer with a VGA Silencer on my Sapphire X800GTO i get the card to 625/620 i think Sapphire overclocks better.

 

[Chesebert]

Originally posted by: videoclone

Originally posted by: WhoBeDaPlaya
Well, got one of them finally to 580/545.
Just might keep it, since it's basically a X800XL/X850 Pro (performance-wise),
both of which cost >= $250.

WhoBeDaPlayer with a VGA Silencer on my Sapphire X800GTO i get the card to 625/620 i think Sapphire overclocks better.

16P or 12P?

 

[Soujiroh]

Lucky me, my connect3d x800gto unlocked successfully to 16pipes. I bought it the day after Black Friday from Newegg and I was afraid that my card was locked at 12 pipes. I haven't done much overclocking yet but I did try 3dmark05 at stock speeds with 16 pipes at 400/980 Mhz and got 4900. Next, I oc'ed it to 500/1000 Mhz and got a score of 5800. Max temps for the OC under load was 75 degrees celcius and when on idle, it was about 53 degrees celcius. All I need to do now is to just buy that zalman v700cu and hope that my temps on the card will drop.

 

[Soujiroh]

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Has anyone tried flashing their cards with non-matching fuse values?

 

[hamidjunior]

Well...my score sucks buttocks...first time doin this kinda thing..still embarassing though

So I tried to overclock connect3D X800GTO. I used made by ATI X800XT bios and flashed it with atiflash. For some reason it is recognized as X800GT?Does that mean I am the unlucky one and it can not be unlocked to 16 pipelines? (GT is 12 right?) The clock jumped to 499/499 (core/memory). With all tests and 4 AA on, 1280x1024 it came up to 3096 (X800GTO). After is was recognized as X800GT the score went up to 3696. My CPU is X2 3800+ and 2x512MB Kingston HyperX (XP pro w/SP 2). I installed the 5.11 catalyst drivers. Hoped my score would be at least over 4,000. Didin?t do anything with ATI tool yet, did this morning before running to work. Is my machine compeletely slow..errrrr than it should be? Any ideas? Thanx

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: hamidjunior
Well...my score sucks buttocks...first time doin this kinda thing..still embarassing though

So I tried to overclock connect3D X800GTO. I used made by ATI X800XT bios and flashed it with atiflash. For some reason it is recognized as X800GT?Does that mean I am the unlucky one and it can not be unlocked to 16 pipelines? (GT is 12 right?) The clock jumped to 499/499 (core/memory). With all tests and 4 AA on, 1280x1024 it came up to 3096 (X800GTO). After is was recognized as X800GT the score went up to 3696. My CPU is X2 3800+ and 2x512MB Kingston HyperX (XP pro w/SP 2). I installed the 5.11 catalyst drivers. Hoped my score would be at least over 4,000. Didin?t do anything with ATI tool yet, did this morning before running to work. Is my machine compeletely slow..errrrr than it should be? Any ideas? Thanx

Did you read the techpowerup article? They have a modded bios that's like the original only with 16 pipes - that's the one I used. Also, I used flashrom to do the mod, I'd recomment using that one instead of atiflash.

 

[djstylze]

So no new developments on this? I was hoping for a solder hack or something to get around unlocking it.

I'm still happy with the results, but like most OC'ers, we're looking for that last bit of juice.

 

[hamidjunior]

Ok I tried again, used modified flashrom. The only bios I could find to use for connect3D X800GTO PCI-E in techpowerup bios collection was asus x800xt pe (pci-e). which one u guys used. I've got zalman 7k with arctic silver now the core is at 520 mem at 560...but still 12 pipes The only thing I really want is play CoD 2 on full settings with 4xA on 1280x1024. I thought 16 pipes would be more beneficial than higher clock speeds, or am i mistaken? It still shows as X800GT

Edit 1: Well it's past midnight, the best I could get with CPU oc to 2.3ghz and video to 520/560 is 3898 in 3Dmark05 (1280x1024, 4xAA), with the system being fairly stable. Did not prime it yet, but at least it doesn't shut down during 3d05 test

 

[jaybee]

I was successful with a connect3D card ordered from Newegg on 11.24. I first tried ATIflash and had no success. Then I made a boot disk, copied over the necessary files (flashrom, the bios on this page), and flashed the card with flashrom -f -p 0 <biosname>. Bingo! 16 pipes. Overclocked to 500/560.

jaybee

 

[abs0lut3]

Originally posted by: v8envy

Keep in mind the $250 XL is available for AGP, for which NVidia doesn't (yet) have much competition. The 6800GS in AGP may address that. Also, not everyone wants to delve into the wild and wooly and oftentimes fun world of bios flashing and overclocking.

Anyhoo, my thinking:

<$100 -- integrated graphics, discrete cards don't offer enough performance to bother
$100-$130 -- 6600GT has an exclusive stranglehold on this price point
$140-$160 -- X800GTO
$160 - $200 -- Big hole here. People will either go much cheaper, or toss in a few more bucks to go up a segment
$210 -- 6800GS
$240 - $250 -- X800XL, X850 Pro, X800GTO^2
$300 -- 7800 GT
$400-$unlimited -- 7800 GTX 512, SLI GT, X1800, etc. Anything over $350 is all about the e-peen size, and price/performance goes completely out of the window. Buyers in this segment won't blink at a $50 price difference, it'll take a price delta of at least $150 to catch their attention. Honorable mention to the 2x 7800 GT for best price/performance in this segment.

People usualy segment by $50 increments, which is a HUGE mistake in the lower end. $50 bucks down there is 25-50% of the card cost, and is irrelevant at the high end. If you use finer grained pricing resolution, you can see that there's a niche for most mainstream products.

Ok...you forgot something.

Your list should look like this instead:

<$100 -- integrated graphics, discrete cards don't offer enough performance to bother
$100-$130 -- 6600GT has an exclusive stranglehold on this price point
$140-$160 -- X800GT
$160 - $200 -- X800GTO
$210 -- 6800GS
$240 - $250 -- X800XL, X850 Pro, X800GTO^2
$300 -- 7800 GT
$400-$unlimited -- 7800 GTX 512, SLI GT, X1800, etc.

I know regular GT isn't that much but it still beats 6600GT in half of the categories most tester had put up against them. Nvidia need to bring something in the fend off ATI in the 140-200 market. I hope that their 7200 and 7600 would be enough to get it.

 

[abs0lut3]

Originally posted by: hamidjunior
Well...my score sucks buttocks...first time doin this kinda thing..still embarassing though

So I tried to overclock connect3D X800GTO. I used made by ATI X800XT bios and flashed it with atiflash. For some reason it is recognized as X800GT?Does that mean I am the unlucky one and it can not be unlocked to 16 pipelines? (GT is 12 right?) The clock jumped to 499/499 (core/memory). With all tests and 4 AA on, 1280x1024 it came up to 3096 (X800GTO). After is was recognized as X800GT the score went up to 3696. My CPU is X2 3800+ and 2x512MB Kingston HyperX (XP pro w/SP 2). I installed the 5.11 catalyst drivers. Hoped my score would be at least over 4,000. Didin?t do anything with ATI tool yet, did this morning before running to work. Is my machine compeletely slow..errrrr than it should be? Any ideas? Thanx

Nope...GT is 8 pixel pipelines only.

 

[Diogenes2]

For what it's worth, I recently bought the Saphire GTO2 from Newegg, and it wouldn't OC for beans.. Core wouldn't go past 420 stable.. This tells me they are actually picking inferior cores to go in these things.. I didn't even bother to unlock the pipes... Sent it back..

In this price range I'd recommend the X850PRO.. I Got the Asus on sale for $219, and it does 560/580 ...

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: hamidjunior
Ok I tried again, used modified flashrom. The only bios I could find to use for connect3D X800GTO PCI-E in techpowerup bios collection was asus x800xt pe (pci-e). which one u guys used. I've got zalman 7k with arctic silver now the core is at 520 mem at 560...but still 12 pipes The only thing I really want is play CoD 2 on full settings with 4xA on 1280x1024. I thought 16 pipes would be more beneficial than higher clock speeds, or am i mistaken? It still shows as X800GT

Edit 1: Well it's past midnight, the best I could get with CPU oc to 2.3ghz and video to 520/560 is 3898 in 3Dmark05 (1280x1024, 4xAA), with the system being fairly stable. Did not prime it yet, but at least it doesn't shut down during 3d05 test

No, read the modding article on techpowerup, on page 2 it has a link to the modded c3d gto bios - that's the one you're supposed to use. It the same as the original, only with the pipes unlocked.

http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/overclocking/vidcard/127

 

[Diogenes2]

Originally posted by: hamidjunior
Ok I tried again, used modified flashrom. The only bios I could find to use for connect3D X800GTO PCI-E in techpowerup bios collection was asus x800xt pe (pci-e). which one u guys used. I've got zalman 7k with arctic silver now the core is at 520 mem at 560...but still 12 pipes The only thing I really want is play CoD 2 on full settings with 4xA on 1280x1024. I thought 16 pipes would be more beneficial than higher clock speeds, or am i mistaken? It still shows as X800GT

Did you use ATI Tool to check settings to see if the card is modable, as shown at TechPowerUp?

http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/127/images/fuses.gif

" # Hold down the shift key and click on "settings"
# Now scroll to the bottom of the list, you should see four new values listed. (The screenshot here is from an X850 XT PE)
Only the red marked numbers are of interest here. If you do not have F for the red numbers, your card can not be modded. "