Alien: Covenant (Prometheus sequel)

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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,628
12,760
146
Correction. It does not attempt to explain why it was where it was. Completely different planet.

The cut scenes really do make it more whole and even gives more depth to some crew member actions. I have no idea why they were cut. That being said, the movie still has a bunch of holes and human stupidity in it.

Also, wow, that trailer gives a ton away. I almost wish I hadn't seen it. The old trailer was fine. I am a bit...disappointed that it seems to be going the route of a normal Alien flick. The whole point of this series was to explore the space jockey. I wanted something a bit more wondrous, but then, they attempted that with Riddick and I hated Chronicles..so who knows.

I did like the prologue (as a fan of the franchise). If the movie is at least as good as that, then it shouldn't be bad.

You know, I never made the specific connection that they were supposed to be different planets (LV-223 in prequel vs LV-426 in Aliens), but honestly that almost seemed like an oversight on the part of the script writers than anything. I mean, it was the *same damn ship*. I cannot help but feel like it was supposed to be that rock.

What are the odds that there'd be some other ship, ALSO an incredibly important ferry vessel for a bio-weapon for an advanced alien species with an identical internal configuration, would end up crashed on another moon, in nearly the same orientation as this one, on another planet also discovered by humanity by chance?

Or is it more likely that the script writers wanted the external scenes to be 'pretty' instead of dusty 'ol LV-426?

But yes, there were plenty of problems with the movie beyond the ambiguity of the locale.

Don't be confused though, the point of this series is to make money on the coattails of the Alien franchise, nothing more. Hell, The Expanse has done a better job at an actual sci-fi 'Prometheus' movie/series than Prometheus did, and I'm sure the sequel will do.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,218
661
136
You know, I never made the specific connection that they were supposed to be different planets (LV-223 in prequel vs LV-426 in Aliens), but honestly that almost seemed like an oversight on the part of the script writers than anything. I mean, it was the *same damn ship*. I cannot help but feel like it was supposed to be that rock.

What are the odds that there'd be some other ship, ALSO an incredibly important ferry vessel for a bio-weapon for an advanced alien species with an identical internal configuration, would end up crashed on another moon, in nearly the same orientation as this one, on another planet also discovered by humanity by chance?

Or is it more likely that the script writers wanted the external scenes to be 'pretty' instead of dusty 'ol LV-426?

But yes, there were plenty of problems with the movie beyond the ambiguity of the locale.

Don't be confused though, the point of this series is to make money on the coattails of the Alien franchise, nothing more. Hell, The Expanse has done a better job at an actual sci-fi 'Prometheus' movie/series than Prometheus did, and I'm sure the sequel will do.

I'd have to go back and watch Prometheus again, but I don't recall they ever really defined what the Space Jockeys were doing in regards to the seeding they were doing. It's possible that there is more than one ship out there seeding planets. I would think they'd be similar ships as most fleets look alike.

Also one planet was sought out, and in Alien they just happened to fly too close and picked up a signal. I'm not saying it's there, and am making some leaps in connecting it together. It's just they never really did explain (at least from what I could remember) wtf the jockeys were doing and how they were doing it.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
I think there were some assumptions made by Ridley that made him not think he needed to explain that a bit more. I knew because, well...I had researched and read things prior to it coming out. Also, being a rabid fan of Alien, I understood it wasn't the same ship simply because of the difference in planet numbers given in the movie. Also, they point out in the movie there are more than 1 ship on the planet.

What I 'thought' was going to happen at the end of Prometheus was that the ship that they flew off at the end would be the ship from Alien, but it seems that isn't the case either given the trailer.

Honestly too, I don't think Ridley completely knows what the engineers were doing. I mean, we see them seeding, and we see that for some reason they are mad at the human race and plan to wipe them out. We also see (in Alien) that a ship was on another planet and had been infected and something laid a bunch of eggs below the ship ( at least that's how they explain it, those eggs weren't actually in the ship, they were below it). What this means is they are not related...at least in terms of what the engineers were doing. Aliens kind of changed things due to adding the queen element and makes you wonder, where was the queen in Alien (even though there wasn't one in the storyline at that point). The new movie may kind of explain how that ship got there though in some manner.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,234
136
The ship in the first movie was giving off a distress signal. It either crashed on that planet or it was there to do some seeding. There was some kind of accident and the xenomorphs ran amok.

If the "engineers" had infrastructure on that planet, it would have been discovered before humans built a colony and tried to terraform it.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Latest trailer looks like a remake of Alien with a touch more action.
Which no one was asking for. This does not look like anything special at all. They will definitely have to show me more to get me interested at all.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Which no one was asking for. This does not look like anything special at all. They will definitely have to show me more to get me interested at all.
'

Oh man, not more, they've shown enough. I agree it's a bit disappointing, BUT after watching it again, it does appear to show engineers and what might have happened to them.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
That better not be in the movie....and....also, why would that NOT be in the movie??? They did this same crap for prometheus. I have a feeling this movie is going to suck.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,218
661
136
That better not be in the movie....and....also, why would that NOT be in the movie??? They did this same crap for prometheus. I have a feeling this movie is going to suck.

The title has "prologue" in it, so I'm guessing it's not in the movie, nor is it really required to enjoy.. having said that, I really hope they expand on what happened after the ship landed. My hopes aren't high though..
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,234
136
That better not be in the movie....and....also, why would that NOT be in the movie??? They did this same crap for prometheus. I have a feeling this movie is going to suck.
There was a Prometheus prologue? I don't think I saw that.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
There was a Prometheus prologue? I don't think I saw that.

Yea there were multiple. The main one being Guy Richie's (Weyland) Ted Talk when he was young. They've followed the same hype machine for this new movie releasing multiple 'prologues'.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,234
136
Yea there were multiple. The main one being Guy Richie's (Weyland) Ted Talk when he was young. They've followed the same hype machine for this new movie releasing multiple 'prologues'.
Ah...OK. I saw the TED thing.
 

slag

Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
10,473
81
101
There were great parts in the movie, but you can't deny the movie was shit overall. Prequels are rarely any good.

It was entertaining and showed parts of the Alien universe that hadn't been seen before. Plus, anything with that South Afrikan princess in it is good in my book.
 

Ruptga

Lifer
Aug 3, 2006
10,247
207
106
Spoiler..... It's gonna suck worse than Prometheus.

Yep, unnecessary sequels and spin-offs almost always get progressively worse. It looks like Lindelof is gone though, so maybe it won't be insultingly stupid.

I like the franchise so I'll probably see it eventually if it costs me a dollar or less, or if it's getting good reviews a week after release.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,846
13,778
146
Well here's the thing about Ridley Scott movies. They are always beautifully directed and beautiful to watch.

Whether they suck or not depends on the story and the writer

You give him a Dan O'bannon and you get Alien

Or

Give him Andy Weir and Drew Goddard and you get The Martian.

Both great movies.

If you give him Damon Lindelhof you get Prometheus......

So what do we know about the writers of Alien Covenant?
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,414
1,574
126
Wow you fucking nailed that analysis.

Prometheus was visually pleasing.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,181
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It was entertaining and showed parts of the Alien universe that hadn't been seen before. Plus, anything with that South Afrikan princess in it is good in my book.

It was? It was boring tedious exposition to prop up a horror franchise as some high minded thing, with bits of jump scares and characters acting completely nonsensically opposite of how they should have acted considering they literally spent most of the boring exposition showing they would be.

Who the fuck wanted to see that? I keep seeing people say they're fans of the Alien universe and want more of it and it just completely baffles me. It's a pretty generic vaguely realistic future version of our world with a neat looking alien (that while neat, what the fuck more do you want of that, Alien and Aliens are basically the perfect ways of using that creature, why anyone wants anything more of the alien I cannot fathom; do people want like an Alien apocalypse thing where it's basically a zombie movie with aliens? If so why?).

I'd say fair point as she's generally an entertaining actor, but she really did not add anything to this movie.

Yep, unnecessary sequels and spin-offs almost always get progressively worse. It looks like Lindelof is gone though, so maybe it won't be insultingly stupid.

I like the franchise so I'll probably see it eventually if it costs me a dollar or less, or if it's getting good reviews a week after release.

I think it being insulting though is almost inherent to doing that shit. Lindelhoff seems to be shitty, but, I don't know why anyone wants them to flesh out the Alien universe. It being fairly vague and not explaining stuff is why it was interesting. Same with basically every universe they've tried to expand on (including, one could say especially, Star Wars). Even a universe like Star Trek where the technical aspects are probably the main draw, suffer when they try to explain things more and expand. And the more they do it, the worse it gets.

I like Alien and Aliens. I do not like it as a franchise. I can't even understand why people want expanded Star Wars universes and plenty of other stuff that for some reason they're trying to flesh out, and the Alien one is even less interesting and more shallow than those by orders of magnitude.

I can at least somewhat understand people wanting more Ripley (and Hicks and Newt), because they were enjoyable characters. I don't have much hope that it'll be good, but I can understand that. I really cannot understand the people saying they want more Alien, especially the ones saying it after Prometheus (since now they're going to try to add more explanation on how it connects, after going out of their way to say Prometheus is not Alien, but now it totally is!).

Wow you fucking nailed that analysis.

Prometheus was visually pleasing.

Oh absolutely. Even though I thought the setting was boring as pebbles of dogshit, it was very sharp and cinematic, dog shit. That's just about guaranteed with Ridley Scott is that it'll be shot exceptionally well (I do wish someone would point out fucking dumb it is to have big bright lights inside your space helmets though). But that's also part of the problem. He has the best tools he's ever had (and one of the best casts he's ever had), but wasted it on such a piddling story (there is nothing really interesting about the origin story they tried to tell, it's like a weaker creation story than basically any society or religion has come up with, and is barely more than "aliens jacked off all over the universe"), dumbshit throwaway characters, and just plain stupid plot. I don't know why they're trying to juxtapose high minded scientific philosophy with crappy slasher horror. It's like they watched 2001 and took the most basic thoughts ("oooh - intentionally it must be said, but for purpose - incromphensible scenes, vague setup, and the computer is a cold heartless killer, also space cause duh").

I was going to lump him in with Spielberg and Cameron and go WTF happened to all these guys after the like mid-late 90s, but Scott has really always been a flash now and then director. But he's still trading off the 80s for some reason. Not sure if it's because people seem to be pining for the 80s or if he's trying to get his geek cred back or what.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,181
5,643
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Again I was hoping for something grander, inspiring rather than a horror movie of human impaling monsters. Smart ass.

Why?!? Do you want Friday the 13th to delve into resurrection/reincarnation philosophy? Should Halloween get deep about psychology and the human brain? Predator should be about trophy hunting and exploitation of societies by technologically advanced organism?

Am I being incredibly obtuse here? What the fuck, why the hell do people want deep mythology from the Alien franchise? Is it because of H.R. Geiger's visual style, they want something that lives up to the potential there (and Dune failed at realizing that)?

I could maybe even understand it if someone interesting was attached (kinda like how the Hobbit was 1000 times more interesting when it was gonna be Peter Jackson producing Guillermo del Toro).

Instead all I can think is, there's got to be a lot better options for Ridley Scott's talents.

Hell I could be interested if he was planning on doing something interesting, like an Alien movie aimed for VR headsets. That would be an enticing experience.
 

Ruptga

Lifer
Aug 3, 2006
10,247
207
106
Am I being incredibly obtuse here?

Well... yeah. Aliens did well for a lot of reasons, one of them being that it set itself apart from the original by taking a slightly different tone and direction. In Alien, everyone dies and almost none of the supporting cast do anything memorable. In Aliens, we have Hicks, Bishop, Vasquez, and Newt, and everyone remembers them. Granted, Vasquez is mostly known for dying, and Newt pretty much just hid and looked scared the whole time, but they still made us feel like we knew them. When Hicks wanted to nuke and bail, we were right there with him. Later we found ourselves wondering, what is the measure of an android? I think that's the deeper stuff that people have been hoping for, because we don't have to have a Patrick Stewart speech to touch on something deeper than rawr pew pew.

darkswordsman17 said:
I think it being insulting though is almost inherent to doing that shit. Lindelhoff seems to be shitty, but, I don't know why anyone wants them to flesh out the Alien universe. It being fairly vague and not explaining stuff is why it was interesting. Same with basically every universe they've tried to expand on (including, one could say especially, Star Wars). Even a universe like Star Trek where the technical aspects are probably the main draw, suffer when they try to explain things more and expand. And the more they do it, the worse it gets.

Yeah, mystery in the right places really helps a lot of stories, it keeps things moving and what's imagined is usually better than anything concrete. Going back later and trying to tell stories that never really needed to be told is risky at best, and it definitely tends to spiral out of control as people realize that it kind of sucks and the writers try to compensate by giving us even more detail and exposition that really isn't important. Any monkey with a keyboard can write stories in an existing universe though, it's cheap and it's quick, and there is always a market for that.
 
Last edited:

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,846
13,778
146
That's just about guaranteed with Ridley Scott is that it'll be shot exceptionally well (I do wish someone would point out fucking dumb it is to have big bright lights inside your space helmets though).

On the helmet lights. Every director does:
Cameron:


JJ Abrams


They do it because in reality you can't see the guys face without it due to reflections and visors:


So the audience would be confused most of the scene.

I mean most people think this is Neil Armstrong.

It's Buzz Aldrin. (You can see Neil in the reflection on his face)

So it's a necessary evil
 
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