All Statues and Monuments must come down

[uallas5]

Historian being interviewed by NPR had an interesting idea. He said that taking down the statues wasn't enough, that we needed to break the incorrect Lost Cause narrative and taking down the statues won't do that. Putting them in a museum with plaques telling the truth won't do that, because how many people read the plaques. His idea was to put up a wall, encase the statues in a transparent box if you will, and etch with large letters on that surface the true story of the Civil War, the Lost Cause, and the real reason why the statue was put up. The viewer who wanted to look at the statue would be visually forced to read the inscription, there would be no way around it.

 

[Starbuck1975]

San Francisco - challenge accepted

 

[compuwiz1]

What's next? There are people out there who hate our flag, so shall we also eliminate it? People are having problems with statues of people long dead. If these are ruining your life in 2020, you have other issues, far more severe than a statue. These things don't belong to the angry mob, they belong to the people of our country. They are part of our history, and you know what they say about forgetting about history and being bound to repeat it. There is also an art aspect in all these, not to mention they are antiques. The police are just standing down while property is being destroyed, and some people think this is good. SMH! What have any of these emo people ever built or accomplished in their lives? Probably not much.

 

[Fenixgoon]

What's next? There are people out there who hate our flag, so shall we also eliminate it? People are having problems with statues of people long dead. If these are ruining your life in 2020, you have other issues, far more severe than a statue. These things don't belong to the angry mob, they belong to the people of our country. They are part of our history, and you know what they say about forgetting about history and being bound to repeat it. There is also an art aspect in all these, not to mention they are antiques. The police are just standing down while property is being destroyed, and some people think this is good. SMH! What have any of these emo people ever built or accomplished in their lives? Probably not much.

so would you expect germany to have a statue of hitler anywhere outside a history museum? if you answer no, then you already know why statues of confederate generals are offensive.

 

[CZroe]

so would you expect germany to have a statue of hitler anywhere outside a history museum? if you answer no, then you already know why statues of confederate generals are offensive.

"Confederate generals?" He seems to be responding to the poster above him about what's happening in Golden Gate Park which fits the original "all monuments" assertion of the OP and thread topic. George Washington, Francis Scott Key, and Ulysses S. Grant were certainly not "Confederate generals."

Miguel de Cervantes was a slave himself at one point and even his statue was vandalized.

Dave's got one heck of an edit coming for that second post if he really does plan to keep track of all this.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Agreed, and what really gets me are the ones who didn't even accomplish the things they are credited with. Christopher Columbus, anyone? Did not "discover America." Did not even step foot in North America, but the Vikings did 600 years earlier. Did not discover that the earth wasn't flat. Did capture and enslave native populations in the Caribbean. Did start the process of genocide of those people, and called in the Spanish to finish the job. Wasn't even a good guy to his friends - tried to cheat his crewmen out of their bounties!

But we have a national holiday for him here because reasons...

We have Columbus Day because Italians sought to weave their culture into the melting pot of American identity and Columbus was an iconic symbol that was politically attainable to claim as their own.

 

[CZroe]

Agreed, and what really gets me are the ones who didn't even accomplish the things they are credited with. Christopher Columbus, anyone?
...
Did capture and enslave native populations in the Caribbean. Did start the process of genocide of those people, and called in the Spanish to finish the job. Wasn't even a good guy to his friends - tried to cheat his crewmen out of their bounties!

But we have a national holiday for him here because reasons...

You've got some watching to do:

 

[HomerJS]

"Confederate generals?" He seems to be responding to the poster above him about what's happening in Golden Gate Park which fits the original "all monuments" assertion of the OP and thread topic. George Washington, Francis Scott Key, and Ulysses S. Grant were certainly not "Confederate generals."

Miguel de Cervantes was a slave himself at one point and even his statue was vandalized.

Dave's got one heck of an edit coming for that second post if he really does plan to keep track of all this.

Want to know why people like me (black) support removing all Confederate imagery from the public square? This...

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science.

Now, tell people like me again, why this kind of shit should be supported???

 

[CZroe]

Want to know why people like me (black) support removing all Confederate imagery from the public square? This...


Now, tell people like me again, why this kind of shit should be supported???

Why are you still talking about Confederate imagery in response to me? Did you think I was?

No. My entire point was that he was the one who wrongly thought the person he responded to was talking about Confederate imagery... in a thread that makes it abundantly clear that this is about "all monuments" in response to a post about what is happening in San Francisco's Golden Gate Park. Again: George Washington and Ulysses S. Grant were not Confederate-anythings, nor was Miguel Cervantes nor was Catholic saint and Apostle of California Junipero Serra who's big sin appears to be that he employed Native Americans when building his mission... to save Native Americans' souls.

Those are just some of the statues being taken down and/or vandalized in Golden Gate Park.

 

[Svnla]

Look at this Confederate status being pulled down and vandalized -

Oh wait. It was the 1st President of the US.

Portland protesters pull down George Washington statue - KTVZ

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — Protesters who took to the streets in Portland for the 22nd consecutive night tore down a statue of George Washington that was erected in the 1920s. The demonstrators placed a sticker on the head of the statue that read “You are on Native land" and also spray-painted the...

ktvz.com

Carry on. Destroy them all. Tell me more about tolerance, integrity, inclusive, and all the bull crap liberals love to preach about. Carry on.

 

[1prophet]

It has begun, the equivalent of Mao's cultural revolution, all evidence of things right or wrong in the past to be changed or destroyed.

Rioters deface monument honoring all-black regiment of Union Civil War soldiers

Exactly 123 years to the day that it was dedicated, the Shaw Memorial, a monument honoring the first all-volunteer black regiment of the Union Army in the Civil War, was defaced by rioters demanding justice for African-Americans.

disrn.com

Video: Protesters Tear Down and Damage Columbus Statues Across the Country

Demonstrators pulled down statues of Christopher Columbus in St. Paul, Minn., and Richmond, Va., and decapitated another in Boston, targeting monuments seen as symbols of white supremacy.

www.nytimes.com

Thomas Jefferson monument bashers no better than the Taliban

In this week’s episode of things we were told would never happen, members of the New York City Council, including the speaker, are demanding that a statue of Thomas Jefferson be removed from City H…

nypost.com

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”
― George Orwell, 1984


Looks many of our so called liberal educated woke democrats have failed to study history and realize when one uses the mob to right wrongs real or perceived there is a danger it will take a life of its own and demolish everything in its path,

The Cultural Revolution: all you need to know about China's political convulsion

Fifty years ago one of the bloodiest eras in history began, in which as many as two million people died. But who started it and what was it for?

www.theguardian.com

When the mass mobilisation kicked off party newspapers depicted it as an epochal struggle that would inject new life into the socialist cause. “Like the red sun rising in the east, the unprecedented Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution is illuminating the land with its brilliant rays,” one editorial read.
In fact, the Cultural Revolution crippled the economy, ruined millions of lives and thrust China into 10 years of turmoil, bloodshed, hunger and stagnation.
Gangs of students and Red Guards attacked people wearing “bourgeois clothes” on the street, “imperialist” signs were torn down and intellectuals and party officials were murdered or driven to suicide.
After violence had run its bloody course, the country’s rulers conceded it had been a catastrophe that had brought nothing but “grave disorder, damage and retrogression”.

don't be surprised if we end up with a slavery denial movement in the near future, like Holocaust Deniers, Moon landing was a hoax believers, and last but not least Flat earth believers in an age of satellites and space travel, because Americans have been dumbed down that much by design.


The Soviet Union may be gone but its demoralization and ideological subversion strategies are working better than anyone could have imagined.

 

[iRONic]

Nyet!

 

[dmcowen674]

"Confederate generals?" He seems to be responding to the poster above him about what's happening in Golden Gate Park which fits the original "all monuments" assertion of the OP and thread topic. George Washington, Francis Scott Key, and Ulysses S. Grant were certainly not "Confederate generals."

Miguel de Cervantes was a slave himself at one point and even his statue was vandalized.

Dave's got one heck of an edit coming for that second post if he really does plan to keep track of all this.

Too many to keep track of. Francis Scott Key statue was pulled down and destroyed today.

 

[zinfamous]

What's next? There are people out there who hate our flag, so shall we also eliminate it? People are having problems with statues of people long dead. If these are ruining your life in 2020, you have other issues, far more severe than a statue. These things don't belong to the angry mob, they belong to the people of our country. They are part of our history, and you know what they say about forgetting about history and being bound to repeat it. There is also an art aspect in all these, not to mention they are antiques. The police are just standing down while property is being destroyed, and some people think this is good. SMH! What have any of these emo people ever built or accomplished in their lives? Probably not much.

The confederate statues that were erected in 1875, 1911, 1960, 1970s etc were specifically erected as antagonistic anti-Civil Rights, anti-black, anti-American monuments as a counter protest. These are the statues that are being torn down, and that is the history that is being torn down. Even Robert E fucking Lee, the slave-beating evil fucking bastard that he was, professed that he never wanted a monument erected in his memory.

That is actual history.

Do you accept that fact of history, yes or no?

It's a fact that you either accept or deny, and your response to that simple question colors much about your character.

 

[zinfamous]

You've got some watching to do:

I...really don't need to listen to a youtube "office chair guy" and cartoon trying to give us "context" to defend Columbus.

Fucking nations came to power, and were established, in revolt against the very practices of Columbus, generations before he sought to offshore that very same barbarism. Don't give us that fucking asinine, elementary bullshit. ffs. He only existed because his fucking insanity was forced offshore, to the point that no one cared if that asshole disappeared into the ether.

 

[WelshBloke]

Carry on. Destroy them all. Tell me more about tolerance, integrity, inclusive, and all the bull crap liberals love to preach about. Carry on.

Maybe politicians should have listened to public opinion instead of trolling people for the last hundred years?

Then you could have removed statues in a controlled way. But no, ignore the peoples reasonable voice and then you are going to have to face the mob. No point in whining about it now.

 

[brycejones]

Maybe politicians should have listened to public opinion instead of trolling people for the last hundred years?

Then you could have removed statues in a controlled way. But no, ignore the peoples reasonable voice and then you are going to have to face the mob. No point in whining about it now.

I love how the poster you responded to thinks glorifying slavery and slavers is something to be inclusive and tolerant about.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Maybe politicians should have listened to public opinion instead of trolling people for the last hundred years?

Then you could have removed statues in a controlled way. But no, ignore the peoples reasonable voice and then you are going to have to face the mob. No point in whining about it now.

The mob is tearing down statues of historical icons who had nothing to do with slavery. What kind of moron would target a statue of Grant, the general who’s strategy turned the tide of the Civil War.

Confederate statues and monuments? Tear every last one of them down.

Founding Fathers and other icons of history who made not have had progressive attitudes within the context of history? You’re venturing into 1984 territory.

 

[CZroe]

The confederate statues that were erected in 1875, 1911, 1960, 1970s etc were specifically erected as antagonistic anti-Civil Rights, anti-black, anti-American monuments as a counter protest. These are the statues that are being torn down, and that is the history that is being torn down. Even Robert E fucking Lee, the slave-beating evil fucking bastard that he was, professed that he never wanted a monument erected in his memory.

That is actual history.

Do you accept that fact of history, yes or no?

It's a fact that you either accept or deny, and your response to that simple question colors much about your character.

You are the second person to respond to compuwiz1 with the notion that he was talking exclusively about confederate statues even when...
1) He didn't mention anything about Confederates, slavery, or the Confederacy
2) The thread is indisputable about ALL statues/monuments, as I have been reminding people all along
3) He seems to be responding to the post above him about "San Francisco" (Golden Gate Park) where they toppled, vandalized, or destroyed statues of Washinton, Keys, Grant, Cervantes, St Serra, and others (note. NOT "Confederates").

It really is bizarre. Why do people keep deluding themselves that this is just about confederate statues?

I...really don't need to listen to a youtube "office chair guy" and cartoon trying to give us "context" to defend Columbus.

I dunno about that. Based on your response it sounds like you really DO need to listen to this historian. His political values are very much in line with yours, if that's where your hang up is.

Both videos are from the same guy and neither are "cartoons." The only reason the intro is drawn is because the YouTube algorithm likes that (it used to be live action video depicting the exact same thing). The cartoon Christopher Columbus is from another YouTube historian he collaborated with in the video where he talks about how bad Columbus was specifically in response to people who misconstrued his original video.

Columbus was bad but he wasn't directly responsible for any of the terrible things he is blamed for and even the direct quotes from his diary are mistranslation or blatantly used out of context by people who were motivated to vilify him. It's a very interesting bit of history that really should be more widely known than it is, especially if you want to speak on the matter of Christopher Columbus' sins as woolfe9998 did. I guarantee you won't regret the time you spend watching it.

IFucking nations came to power, and were established, in revolt against the very practices of Columbus, generations before he sought to offshore that very same barbarism. Don't give us that fucking asinine, elementary bullshit. ffs. He only existed because his fucking insanity was forced offshore, to the point that no one cared if that asshole disappeared into the ether.

He was a bad dude but not for the specific reasons most people say he was bad.

 

[WelshBloke]

The mob is tearing down statues of historical icons who had nothing to do with slavery. What kind of moron would target a statue of Grant, the general who’s strategy turned the tide of the Civil War.

Confederate statues and monuments? Tear every last one of them down.

Founding Fathers and other icons of history who made not have had progressive attitudes within the context of history? You’re venturing into 1984 territory.

As I said, its something that should have been addressed when people made reasonable requests for monuments to slaves and traitors to be taken down. If you ignore those requests and then spend decades winding people up over the issue you shouldn't be surprised when you end up with an angry mob.

 

[soulcougher73]

What's next? There are people out there who hate our flag, so shall we also eliminate it? People are having problems with statues of people long dead. If these are ruining your life in 2020, you have other issues, far more severe than a statue. These things don't belong to the angry mob, they belong to the people of our country. They are part of our history, and you know what they say about forgetting about history and being bound to repeat it. There is also an art aspect in all these, not to mention they are antiques. The police are just standing down while property is being destroyed, and some people think this is good. SMH! What have any of these emo people ever built or accomplished in their lives? Probably not much.

They've accomplished tearing down racists statues, while you've complained on the internet. So, much more than you.

 

[skyking]

Washington was another slave owner. We can't keep talking about this greatest nation until we as a people quit painting our glorious past and founding fathers as the white knights of the time. It was business as usual. Enlightened new nation my ass.

 

[hal2kilo]

Washington was another slave owner. We can't keep talking about this greatest nation until we as a people quit painting our glorious past and founding fathers as the white knights of the time. It was business as usual. Enlightened new nation my ass.

If you visit Mount Vernon, which I did last summer, they have constant reminders and exhibits, that point out that the plantation's prosperity would not have been possible without slave labor. There is a memorial to the slaves and it very tasteful and appropriate and very prominent. These are the kinds of things that should have been done nationwide, long ago.

 

[skyking]

oops

 

[Sunburn74]

The mob is tearing down statues of historical icons who had nothing to do with slavery. What kind of moron would target a statue of Grant, the general who’s strategy turned the tide of the Civil War.

Confederate statues and monuments? Tear every last one of them down.

Founding Fathers and other icons of history who made not have had progressive attitudes within the context of history? You’re venturing into 1984 territory.

Actually grant wasn't really that good of a guy. I do believe he committed quite a few war crimes on behalf of the north. It was quite a blood brutal war after all. There is a park and highschool here in my town named after him and I honestly feel quite odd about that seeing as there are so many other people who perhaps are better deserving.

That being said, I agree with your notion that its very hard to judge people on one aspect of their life and ignore everything else and ignoring the context of history. Its not easy but there there are clear cases where certain people shouldn't be idolized with statues.