All those running pirated Windows XP - read this!

[NWRMidnight]

The only thing I want to say is to the people that keep saying MS isn't forcing people to ugrade, or buy there new OS's.

This is actually not true in a matter of speaking, if MS wasn't trying to force it's users to upgrade, they wouldn't have dropped there support for windows 98, by doing this, they are doing everything they possibly legally can to force us to upgrade. To me that is like a car manufacturing telling me that they are going to discontinue supporting there 1998 models, so you won't be able to get any new parts, manuals, or anything on that car. Basically, they are forcing you to upgrade to a new car to get "support" for it (new parts, etc), I know I'd be pissed if I had to go buy a new car to be able to put the newest car stereo in it, or to get it to work properly! If you have a problem with windows 98 or have new hardware, and if it requires MS's help to fix it, or create a patch for it, you are SOL, and will be forced to upgrade to get your problom fixed.

Think about it, Valve is still updating Half-life for free (and how old is that game), and it is a GAME, not the heart of the software side of the computer such as is the OS.

Window Me support is due to end sometime this year If I remember correctly, so what will your choices be then, windows 2000 or windows XP if you choose MS?

So think about it, in my opinion, if you want to take advantage of new hardware and such, MS is forcing you to upgrade to there new OS. I wouldn't be suprised if windows 2000 losses support next year, where does that leave you?

Well, I'm off to go buy me a new car, so I can get my new stereo to work right! Damn, and my car is only 4 years old......

Daniel

 

[NWRMidnight]

Originally posted by: Workin'

... That said, the majority of the people are getting that for much less (as part of their computer purchase)

Not true. The computer manufacturer pays full price, or close to it for the OS, and is figured in to the price of the system. And in some cases, (i.e. Compaq) you don't even recieve a true copy of the OS, just some lame restore disk.

Let's see, retail copy of Windows XP Professional = $299 plus change at the local Best Buy or CompUSA.

OEM copy of Windows XP Professional = $140 or so when purchased from a wholesaler like Ingram Micro or TechData or D&H (or newegg.com, for that matter). Purchase of multiple copies gets a discount on top of that.

Big OEM's get an even better discount. And big OEM's that include only a restore disk only pay around $50 for their license. Not really very close to "full price", I don't think.

Uh, you may want to go re-read the requirements to get the OEM version. It says with hardware, which means you must buy 1 piece of hardware for every OEM version you buy. Granted, it doesn't have to be terribly expensive hardware, but who wants a bunch of cheap mice laying around!

Daniel

 

[HowDoesItWork]

NWR has it right, Microsoft basically forces you to upgrade every couple of years. It kind of pisses me off since I really haven't seen much difference other than stability since Win 95. (And I really only upgraded from 3.1 as new games weren't supported on 3.1 anymore). So I kind of think of it as a racket.

Having said that stealing is still stealing. And I am guilty of it. I have 3 computers at home, all of which have Win 2000 and office on them, but I have only purchased one copy of those pieces of software. Illegal, yep. Immoral, I guess. I really don't understand on a moral ground why it is ok to buy a DVD (one copy) but let EVERY member of my family watch it. Or buy ONE car, but let every member of my family ride in it. Or buy ONE book, and let every member of my family read it (and then legally resell it). But it is not morally ok to buy one copy of an OS and install it on all the family computers? I understand the law, but not the morality.

 

[Nothinman]

It kind of pisses me off since I really haven't seen much difference other than stability since Win 95.

If you've actually used Win95 and NT and you can't notice a stability difference you've got issues. Just normally use the Win95 box for a few weeks and I bet you reboot it several times a week, maybe even several times a day, NT can go months without rebooting, although eventually it will need rebooted; I'm not sure what MS does but they seem to make systems that really can't stand up to constant interactive usage.

I really don't understand on a moral ground why it is ok to buy a DVD (one copy) but let EVERY member of my family watch it. Or buy ONE car, but let every member of my family ride in it. Or buy ONE book, and let every member of my family read it (and then legally resell it).

All those are physical possesions and limited to 1 usage at a time. You can only watch the DVD, the car and the book can only be in use on at a time, they just have the ability to be used by more than one person at the same time. Like say if you played a split-screen multiplayer game with 2 people on your PC, that's not illegal even though you only have 1 license.

The software can be installed and used by seperate people for seperate uses infinitely. If it was as easy to copy a car as it is to install an OS in multiple PCs I'm sure there'd be similar car licensing.

You also have to realize you bought a license to use the software, you don't own the software, MS does. When you buy a car you're buying a physical thing, a NT license is a piece of paper that says you're allowed to use MS' product on 1 PC.

 

[leezard]

support the original !!!

 

[alphatarget1]

first of all, how do you define "stealing"? a lot of copyright law provisions are BS. It's just like, ok put it this way. you sung some song into the atmosphere, and the soundwave propagates until it's too weak. Does it mean you own that sound wave you produced? Does it mean you can charge me money to listen to some sound wave just because you produced it? Same for a book, i'd say it's technically illegal to copy a book and possess the copy but people still do it.

same logic can apply to software. I'm not stealing anything from microsoft. Did i go into their factory and steal their CDs/licenses? i won't do that. The engineers at Microsoft gets paid regardless of the relatively small number of piraters (comparing to their business).

Screw that one license for each PC thing. I possess the PCs and I purchased the copy of win2k. I can install it on my computers as I like and they can't do anything about it. Does it mean when you buy a CD you can only play it on a deck iff the CD is only licensed to play on a specific CD player?

It's true, microsoft doesn't really provide much support at all. Rather than fixing problems before they come out they prefer to have people telling them about the problems after they're discovered.

 

[Nothinman]

a lot of copyright law provisions are BS

Whether you feel that way or not you still have to follow them, you can't pick an choose the laws to follow based on what you think is dumb.

I possess the PCs and I purchased the copy of win2k. I can install it on my computers as I like and they can't do anything about it.

For now...

Does it mean when you buy a CD you can only play it on a deck iff the CD is only licensed to play on a specific CD player?

No, but it means you can only play it in one player at a time. MS says the same thing, one PC at a time, you can transfer it from PC to PC if you want, but only one can be active at a time.

Rather than fixing problems before they come out they prefer to have people telling them about the problems after they're discovered.

Maybe you could share the information on just how you're supposed to fix problems before they're known, or better yet maybe you should get it patented and license it for use. Then then MS would just use it without buying a license and there's nothing you could do about it, right?

 

[Workin']

...you may want to go re-read the requirements to get the OEM version. It says with hardware, which means you must buy 1 piece of hardware for every OEM version you buy. Granted, it doesn't have to be terribly expensive hardware, but who wants a bunch of cheap mice laying around!

Yeah, I'd rather pay $300 instead of $140 and not have all that pesky hardware laying around. One example - newegg.com has a mouse for 69 cents that perfectly qualifies as a hardware purchase. If you don't want it laying around you can always throw it away! I know (or hope) you were kidding...

Originally posted by: kenleung
first of all, how do you define "stealing"?

Taking something that is not legally yours.

a lot of copyright law provisions are BS.

That's your opinion and even if true does not justify breaking the law.

It's just like, ok put it this way. you sung some song into the atmosphere, and the soundwave propagates until it's too weak. Does it mean you own that sound wave you produced? Does it mean you can charge me money to listen to some sound wave just because you produced it?

Live performance is covered by a different set of rules than recorded or written works. So your rationalization here is not good at all

Same for a book, i'd say it's technically illegal to copy a book and possess the copy but people still do it.

And you'd be wrong, mostly. It's perfectly legal for you to copy parts of a book for your own non-commercial use. I guess you've never been to a library and noticed the copy machine that you can use for whatever you want.

same logic can apply to software. I'm not stealing anything from microsoft. Did i go into their factory and steal their CDs/licenses? i won't do that. The engineers at Microsoft gets paid regardless of the relatively small number of piraters (comparing to their business).

Are you serious? By installing a pirated copy of the software you have indeed stolen a license. And just where do you think MS gets the money to pay its employees?

Screw that one license for each PC thing. I possess the PCs and I purchased the copy of win2k. I can install it on my computers as I like and they can't do anything about it.

Sure they can - ever hear of the gestapo tactics of the Business Software Alliance and the 6 and 7 figure court awards they manage to get from companies that use pirated software?

Does it mean when you buy a CD you can only play it on a deck iff the CD is only licensed to play on a specific CD player?

If they wanted to make it that way they could.

 

[sodcha0s]

Are you serious? By installing a pirated copy of the software you have indeed stolen a license. And just where do you think MS gets the money to pay its employees?

Really? And how do you figure a license is stolen? In reality you are using the software without a license. The software is what is stolen.

How does MS get the money to pay it's employees? Mostly by having created the biggest ILLEGAL monopoly in American history. This is precisely why the moral standpoint of this argument is an absolute moot point. They decide they want to go into a particular software market, let say browsers for example. They can't seem to make a decent one, so instead of working harder to make theirs the best, they simply cripple the best one available. Remember the Java fiasco? Blantant attempt (a successful one too) to crush any competition. All this is a bad thing for the consumer. Anybody using a moral argument to defend Microsoft is being VERY hypocritical.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. It's very interesting, but I've said my piece.

 

[Workin']

Anybody using a moral argument to defend Microsoft is being VERY hypocritical.

Who's defending MS? This can apply to ANY software.

Your logic (or lack of logic) is incredible. By your logic, if I don't like the way you do things I can steal money from you. If I think you are bad, and in my opinion you have wronged me, that entitles me to take what I can from you. The old "two wrongs make a right" argument. It didn't work when you were 3 years old, and it doesn't work now.

I'm done, too.

 

[DaiShan]

What Micro$oft doesn't realize is they will never be able to defeat piracy because the people that are pirating this software are the same types of people that actually make the software, same mindset, so they are at a stalemate at the moment.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: DaiShan
What Micro$oft doesn't realize is they will never be able to defeat piracy because the people that are pirating this software are the same types of people that actually make the software, same mindset, so they are at a stalemate at the moment.

Thats quiet an uninformed statement. MS's goal is not to 'defeat piracy', it's to reduce it where possible. To that end, the XP activation, breaking updates for known stolen corporate licenses (etc) does do a good job. You are right, there will always be warez'd versions of the OS, but to the extent that MS can keep more and more people from wanting to deal with the problems of using one, they win.

Bill

 

[Artmic]

Why should i pay M$ for XP?? ( Don't correct my spelling ) when i bought Win95, i paid for an OS, i did not pay for a vehicle that lets M$ leech money from me every few years, WIN95/WIN98/WIN98SE/ME/2000/XP etc... Those Mofo's are ripping me off, when i install win95 and try to buy a stinking printer in 2002 it says it dont' support my freakin OS ! why? because M$ decided to drop support, and nobody writes drivers for Win95. So i have no choice i have to get at Least Win98SE, and in a year the minimum will be what? win 2000? and in 2 years it will be XP? So all you people saying it is wrong/imoral/stealing, just don't understand the way things should work, and the way M$ is trying to blindfold you and put a gun to your head, M$ = Terrorists

I guess when you buy your music CD of some country Hick singing you should only be alowed to pop it into just your home stereo, if you take it somewhere else, like work you should not be able to listen to it, unless you call the Music company and ask if it is ok. Oh, and for all the ignorant people that say you have a choice, dont' get XP or any windows products, "HELLO WAKE UP AND SMELL THE GOD DAMN COFFEE. DO YOU THINK ALL HARDWARE/SOFTWARE IS SUPPORTED BY LINUX?!! GET A GRIP ON REALITY" I do not play games, and i do not spend 100 a month on software, so for me spending 500-600 on OS upgrades is not acceptable if i am paying for an added "Feature" or bug fix which should be free by the way.

Thank you for your attention,

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Artmic
Why should i pay M$ for XP?? ( Don't correct my spelling )

I think you mean MS or Microsoft. This M$ crap is making you look like a moron.

when i bought Win95, i paid for an OS,

Yeah, and you are allowed to run Win95. Pretty simple huh?

i did not pay for a vehicle that lets M$ leech money from me every few years, WIN95/WIN98/WIN98SE/ME/2000/XP etc... Those Mofo's are ripping me off, when i install win95 and try to buy a stinking printer in 2002 it says it dont' support my freakin OS ! why? because M$ decided to drop support, and nobody writes drivers for Win95.

DOS is crap. They are moving away from it to a better OS. Why keep that DOS 16bit crap lying around? It only costs them money for the 2 people that still use it.

So i have no choice i have to get at Least Win98SE, and in a year the minimum will be what? win 2000? and in 2 years it will be XP? So all you people saying it is wrong/imoral/stealing, just don't understand the way things should work, and the way M$ is trying to blindfold you and put a gun to your head, M$ = Terrorists

This is the way it works. When something gets better (and win2k is better than the DOS crap you think should continue to be supported), the worse stuff goes away. Progress.

I guess when you buy your music CD of some country Hick singing you should only be alowed to pop it into just your home stereo, if you take it somewhere else, like work you should not be able to listen to it, unless you call the Music company and ask if it is ok.

Some record companies are trying to limit you with where you can play cds. In fact, some of these counterfeit cds (phillips will not let them use the cd logo) destroy computers. I wont be buying one.

Oh, and for all the ignorant people that say you have a choice, dont' get XP or any windows products, "HELLO WAKE UP AND SMELL THE GOD DAMN COFFEE. DO YOU THINK ALL HARDWARE/SOFTWARE IS SUPPORTED BY LINUX?!! GET A GRIP ON REALITY"

And not all hardware or software is supported by Microsoft.

I do not play games, and i do not spend 100 a month on software, so for me spending 500-600 on OS upgrades is not acceptable if i am paying for an added "Feature" or bug fix which should be free by the way.

Stop supporting Microsoft. The only way to do this is to stop using the software. If you dont like what they are doing you should seriously stop supporting them. And of course, no one has come up with a legitimate arguement to that.

Thank you for your attention,

Its always fun to listen to a moron try to speak

 

[Artmic]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Artmic
Why should i pay M$ for XP?? ( Don't correct my spelling )

I think you mean MS or Microsoft. This M$ crap is making you look like a moron.

when i bought Win95, i paid for an OS,

Yeah, and you are allowed to run Win95. Pretty simple huh?

i did not pay for a vehicle that lets M$ leech money from me every few years, WIN95/WIN98/WIN98SE/ME/2000/XP etc... Those Mofo's are ripping me off, when i install win95 and try to buy a stinking printer in 2002 it says it dont' support my freakin OS ! why? because M$ decided to drop support, and nobody writes drivers for Win95.

DOS is crap. They are moving away from it to a better OS. Why keep that DOS 16bit crap lying around? It only costs them money for the 2 people that still use it.

So i have no choice i have to get at Least Win98SE, and in a year the minimum will be what? win 2000? and in 2 years it will be XP? So all you people saying it is wrong/imoral/stealing, just don't understand the way things should work, and the way M$ is trying to blindfold you and put a gun to your head, M$ = Terrorists

This is the way it works. When something gets better (and win2k is better than the DOS crap you think should continue to be supported), the worse stuff goes away. Progress.

I guess when you buy your music CD of some country Hick singing you should only be alowed to pop it into just your home stereo, if you take it somewhere else, like work you should not be able to listen to it, unless you call the Music company and ask if it is ok.

Some record companies are trying to limit you with where you can play cds. In fact, some of these counterfeit cds (phillips will not let them use the cd logo) destroy computers. I wont be buying one.

Oh, and for all the ignorant people that say you have a choice, dont' get XP or any windows products, "HELLO WAKE UP AND SMELL THE GOD DAMN COFFEE. DO YOU THINK ALL HARDWARE/SOFTWARE IS SUPPORTED BY LINUX?!! GET A GRIP ON REALITY"

And not all hardware or software is supported by Microsoft.

I do not play games, and i do not spend 100 a month on software, so for me spending 500-600 on OS upgrades is not acceptable if i am paying for an added "Feature" or bug fix which should be free by the way.

Stop supporting Microsoft. The only way to do this is to stop using the software. If you dont like what they are doing you should seriously stop supporting them. And of course, no one has come up with a legitimate arguement to that.

Thank you for your attention,

Its always fun to listen to a moron try to speak

Who you calling moron? with your logic i should be forced to drive the latest Grand am instead of the one i got from 1991. As for 2 people still using win95, so? in that case they should get win98SE for free, why? because M$ (the devils own spawn) has monopolized the OS industry.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Artmic

Who you calling moron? with your logic i should be forced to drive the latest Grand am instead of the one i got from 1991. As for 2 people still using win95, so? in that case they should get win98SE for free, why? because M$ (the devils own spawn) has monopolized the OS industry.

And people like you, who continue to use the software tell everyone what Microsoft has done is right. Thank you. And until you can spell Microsoft or MS, you will be a moron in my book.

 

[Workin']

Who you calling moron? with your logic i should be forced to drive the latest Grand am instead of the one i got from 1991.

I said I was done but I just can't help myself. They must not teach logic or critical thinking in school anymore...

To carry your little Grand Am analogy forward:

Right now you use Windows 9x, but if you want the latest features, you have to buy a newer version of Windows. Damn MS bastards!! MS is evil!!! waahhhh waaaahhhh waaaahhhh

Right now you drive a 1991 Grand Am, but if you want the latest features, you have to buy a newer version of a Grand Am. But you have no problem with that. And GM doesn't even cut you an upgrade deal...

Both still work as intended when they were released - it's just GM technology doesn't move as fast as computer technology.

And the analogy is even more accurate than you imagined, because both Windows 9x and Grand Am's are crap.

See, you are a moron!

 

[capybara]

LOCK THIS THREAD
calling each other moron is just a pathetic xcuse for dialog. insulting + threatening people online that you would never insult or threaten to their face is just pathetic as well.
why not lock this thread, or if the mods are unwilling of doing so, anyone
who hopes to be intelligent OR thoughtful should just abandon this thread
and leave it to be carried on by those incapable of something betteR.
"NOBODY wins in a fight with a skunk."

 

[Artmic]

Originally posted by: Workin'

To carry your little Grand Am analogy forward:

Right now you use Windows 9x, but if you want the latest features, you have to buy a newer version of Windows. Damn MS bastards!! MS is evil!!! waahhhh waaaahhhh waaaahhhh

Blah blah blah, what?!!!!!!!!!! i can't hear you...

The point is Einstein that I do not need your sh!t for nothing "New" features, all i need is driver support for win95, and since M$ / Micro$oft focused on stealing money for Upgrades(Bug-fixes, which should be free) and OS's that are really old crap under a new hood. Yeah, that right, biatch. So go worship your Devil Mr. Gate$

 

[Nothinman]

The point is Einstein that I do not need your sh!t for nothing "New" features, all i need is driver support for win95, and since M$ / Micro$oft focused on stealing money for Upgrades(Bug-fixes, which should be free) and OS's that are really old crap under a new hood. Yeah, that right, biatch. So go worship your Devil Mr. Gate$


I'm a nearly full-time Linux user and even I think you're an idiot.

Really, if you want Win95 drivers complain to the hardware manfacturers, MS is not forcing them to stop Win95 driver development, they are choosing to.

And the bugfixes are free, MS released IE 6 and SP6a for NT which is nearly 7 years old.

I'll take any chance I can to point out something stupid MS is doing or one that's bad for the consumer, but you really have no legs to stand on in this conversation.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: capybara
LOCK THIS THREAD
calling each other moron is just a pathetic xcuse for dialog. insulting + threatening people online that you would never insult or threaten to their face is just pathetic as well.
why not lock this thread, or if the mods are unwilling of doing so, anyone
who hopes to be intelligent OR thoughtful should just abandon this thread
and leave it to be carried on by those incapable of something betteR.
"NOBODY wins in a fight with a skunk."

Sheesh your a crybaby. I know you aren't very quick, but to be clear no one threatened you. How about this, why don't you stop posting in this thread? I really hope you wind up with a nice vacation from here, you need the break.
Bill

 

[Artmic]

Yes, pay the man his due, he ownz you all. fine by me, i know what i'll be doing with my "Free" copy of XP

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: Artmic
Yes, pay the man his due, he ownz you all. fine by me, i know what i'll be doing with my "Free" copy of XP

I suspect after that post, it won't be posting here with it
Bill

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Originally posted by: Artmic
Yes, pay the man his due, he ownz you all. fine by me, i know what i'll be doing with my "Free" copy of XP

I suspect after that post, it won't be posting here with it
Bill

We can only hope

 

[jhu]

damn! how do i get updates then? oh wait, i don't use windows