All wheel drive

[pete6032]

Never owned an AWD vehicle. I was looking at a website comparing the Subaru Impreza to Honda HR-V. The website said the Impreza AWD was much better than the HR-V AWD because Subaru specifically manufactured the Impreza to be an AWD vehicle whereas Honda took the Honda Fit Frame and slapped an AWD system onto it without as much regard to engineering as the Impreza. Is this bullshit? Is the AWD in each vehicle different or is AWD among these vehicles similar enough that I shouldn't worry about it.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

The Honda AWD systems I'm familiar with are dumbsmart. Basically they're going to act like like a front wheel drive system unless you either floor the accelerator or completely lose traction to the front wheels. They never send full power to the rear wheels (topping out anywhere from 50 to 80%), and they sometimes don't detect slipping wheels very well. They're fine for on-street use with occasionally slick roads or icy parking lots.

The Subaru is always-on AWD that can direct full power to the rear. Less efficient but preferable in deep snow, offroad, etc.

If you live somewhere with gross winter weather, get some snow/winter tires either way. Way safer handling/braking in snow/ice. No sense getting going if you can't stop.

 

[pete6032]

The Honda AWD systems I'm familiar with are dumbsmart. Basically they're going to act like like a front wheel drive system unless you either floor the accelerator or completely lose traction to the front wheels. They never send full power to the rear wheels (topping out anywhere from 50 to 80%), and they sometimes don't detect slipping wheels very well. They're fine for on-street use with occasionally slick roads or icy parking lots.

The Subaru is always-on AWD that can direct full power to the rear. Less efficient but preferable in deep snow, offroad, etc.

If you live somewhere with gross winter weather, get some snow/winter tires either way. Way safer handling/braking in snow/ice. No sense getting going if you can't stop.

I grew up in the Midwest driving a Honda Civic with all-season tires no problem. Wife, on the other hand, has driven mid-size to large vehicles her whole life and did not grow up with a lot of snow.

 

[Midwayman]

Depends on what your commute is like. Do you have to drive up/down steep hills with unplowed snow? Or is your drive mostly flat and typically plowed? There is quite a bit of variation in AWD systems. If it will ever matter depends on how much you'll push it.

 

[LurchFrinky]

For snow and ice, AWD is most useful for accelerating or going uphill. It gives no better performance in braking or turning than anti-lock brakes and stability control. That being said, some AWD systems are better than others with Audi and Subaru leading the way by a large margin. If AWD is a must-have, then I would stick to one of those two manufacturers, otherwise, pick the car that you like and pretend it doesn't have AWD.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I grew up in the Midwest driving a Honda Civic with all-season tires no problem. Wife, on the other hand, has driven mid-size to large vehicles her whole life and did not grow up with a lot of snow.

That was my experience with a small personal fleet of Civics during winter weather in Virginia. FWD handles well. But if you ever go off-road, or get some heavy snow in the mountains, you'd like 4WD or AWD. You might still want snow-tires or chains.

Also, as a former Honda enthusiast, I have a focused eye on Suburu. The only drawback seems to be engines with mediocre power, unless you pay for a "Turbo" model -- or so I've heard.

 

[ondma]

I went from a front wheel drive vehicle with all season tires to a Suburu Impreza with the stock all season tires, and the difference in straight line traction is huge. Cornering is also different, although it took some getting used to, as you have power going to the rear wheels as well as the front, so you can get oversteer (Edit: in snowy or icy conditions) if you apply too much throttle in a turn, although the stability control will not let you spin out. The "symmetrical AWD" is of course partially an advertising gimmick, but it does have an advantage in that there is little if any torque steer, which you get in a conventional FWD car.

As to the power issue, the Impreza, Forrester and Legacy/Outback are all a bit lacking in power, but not terribly so. The Impreza is fine in most cases, but there are times (especially with passengers on board) when the throttle response seems a bit flat. The power is comparable with other cars in the class though, such as the Corolla, HRV, Mazda CX3, and so forth.

 

[Midwayman]

The only drawback seems to be engines with mediocre power, unless you pay for a "Turbo" model -- or so I've heard.

They also get pretty terrible gas mileage. That's one of the main reasons I didn't end up with one last round of car shopping.

 

[JCH13]

Is the AWD in each vehicle different or is AWD among these vehicles similar enough that I shouldn't worry about it.

Yes, and 99% of the time, yes.

There will be secondary differences between various AWD control schemes. Just get decent winter or otherwise snow-rated tires and most (all?) AWD vehicles will be just fine in the snow. Skip the all-seasons. While some people use all-seasons without incident or collision they are objectively more dangerous to use on snow and ice compared to winter tires regardless of drive type.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

I grew up in the Midwest driving a Honda Civic with all-season tires no problem. Wife, on the other hand, has driven mid-size to large vehicles her whole life and did not grow up with a lot of snow.

I'm a Michigan to Minneapolis transplant, have owned a few different compact sedans, all FWD.

I switched back and forth a few times between cheap generic all-seasons and winters (my dad even got paranoid enough to chip in at one point when I was a bit down on my luck) but never really felt like all-seasons were that much of a disadvantage until I got my current car. Stock, an Acura TL is absolute garbage in the snow, dunno why. Sliding up and down hills, through stop signs, the whole bit. Put some narrower rims and winter tires on it last fall and it was mind-boggling.

 

[ondma]

They also get pretty terrible gas mileage. That's one of the main reasons I didn't end up with one last round of car shopping.

Saying the gas mileage is "terrible" is certainly an overstatement. It is not outstanding for the amount of power available, but again, I would say it is competitive, especially considering the cars have full time AWD. I get around 30 mpg overall with my Impreza, in mixed freeway/city driving. I get mid 30s on the freeway, cruising at 70 mph or so, and have gotten up to 40 on occasion. I have the 5 door model. The sedan is more aerodynamic and probably would do a bit better.

 

[snoopy7548]

In the Northeast everyone seems to "need" AWD for the few times it snows and the roads aren't fully plowed. I currently drive a Versa with snow tires and its completely fine on unplowed back roads (Vermont). I always see people in AWD SUVs getting stuck while I blow past them.

AWD can give you a sense of overconfidence. In most cases a FWD car with snow tires will handle snow better than an AWD car with all-season tires. But regardless of what you have, snow tires are a must if your area gets snow, IMO.

Knowing how to drive in snow is essential. About 11 years ago there was a huge snowstorm in the Boston area. My commute was an hour but it took nine hours to get home. Everyone was getting stuck, especially on this one hilly area of the highway, but I just drove past them like it was nothing. This was in my FWD Versa with all-season tires.

If you really need AWD, Subaru is the best. Have you checked out the Crosstrek?

 

[ondma]

In the Northeast everyone seems to "need" AWD for the few times it snows and the roads aren't fully plowed. I currently drive a Versa with snow tires and its completely fine on unplowed back roads (Vermont). I always see people in AWD SUVs getting stuck while I blow past them.

AWD can give you a sense of overconfidence. In most cases a FWD car with snow tires will handle snow better than an AWD car with all-season tires. But regardless of what you have, snow tires are a must if your area gets snow, IMO.

Knowing how to drive in snow is essential. About 11 years ago there was a huge snowstorm in the Boston area. My commute was an hour but it took nine hours to get home. Everyone was getting stuck, especially on this one hilly area of the highway, but I just drove past them like it was nothing. This was in my FWD Versa with all-season tires.

If you really need AWD, Subaru is the best. Have you checked out the Crosstrek?

I have an Impreza, basically a lowered Crosstrek, or the Crosstrek is a lifted Impreza, depending on how you look at it. I wanted AWD without the high step-over height of an SUV (my wife is short and has arthritis). The Impreza was great in snow last winter, but I got it in December, so the tires (all season Continentals) were brand new for the snow season. I know snow tires are a big plus, but I dont want to go through the twice yearly changeover, and have no place to store the extra tires and wheels. I had a FWD Altima and would not have traded it in just to get AWD, but it was totalled in an accident, so I decided to get AWD in the new car.

 

[JCH13]

I know snow tires are a big plus, but I dont want to go through the twice yearly changeover, and have no place to store the extra tires and wheels.

This is a situation many people find themselves in. If one MUST use only one set of tires, just make sure that the all-season has a M+S rating (mud and snow). There are all-season tires without M+S, and they are total garbage in the snow.

 

[ondma]

This is a situation many people find themselves in. If one MUST use only one set of tires, just make sure that the all-season has a M+S rating (mud and snow). There are all-season tires without M+S, and they are total garbage in the snow.

The OEM tires are V rated Continental Pro Contact TS or something like that, M/S rated of course. Not very pleased with them, quite a bit of wear at 12k. Probably have to replace them before next winter. They are pretty low rated in the user ratings at Tire Rack.

 

[Midwayman]

This is a situation many people find themselves in. If one MUST use only one set of tires, just make sure that the all-season has a M+S rating (mud and snow). There are all-season tires without M+S, and they are total garbage in the snow.

Id also suggest looking at tire racks winter testing of various tires. There are plenty that are M&S that are garbage in snow. If you only have one set you kinda have to prioritize snow performance. for UHP all seasons the conti DWS performs particularly well. Not sure about lower classes, but UHP tires tend to be bad in snow in general.

FWIW many tire shops have the option to store tires with them for a fairly nominal fee. That way you can still have two sets even if you live in an apartment, etc.

 

[ondma]

The Michelin Cross Climate plus seems to be the class of the field. They actually are rated as a winter tire (3 peak mountain snowflake symbol), but perform very well in all conditions. However, the are pricey, and for some reason not widely available except from tire rack.

 

[BurnItDwn]

I got my Lexus GS350 AWD this spring.
Its running the stock Michelin Primacy MXM4 tires.

I'm waiting to see how the it handles in the snow.
I finally have some space available in my basement to store extra wheels + tires if I think I need winter tires.

Used All seasons on my Subaru before this, and before that had FWD cars with AWD. Also have all seasons on my wife's Ford Edge and it does ok on the flat Illinois roads in winter.

Might decide to put winter tires on wife's Edge rather than my Sedan simply because its bigger/holds more crap for road trips and we may decide to drive 1000 miles in the winter snow again at some point.

 

[ondma]

Yea, the terrain one drives on is a big factor. I drove FWD cars with all season tires for many, many years without getting stuck. I finally did get stuck a couple of years ago. I also had a job that required I show up no matter what the conditions, so I decided to go AWD with my latest car. However, I drive on mainly flat terrain that is plowed within a day or two, and public transportation is available. The time I got stuck, I was at work, and much heavier snow than expected came during the day. So basically, I need good snow traction for a couple of days after a major storm, or when snow is unexpectedly heavy.

If I lived in hilly terrain I am sure winter tires would be a necessity.

 

[BoomerD]

Keep in mind that "all-wheel drive" is not (quite) the same as 4 wheel drive...although the two can be very similar.

AWD vs 4WD: What's the Difference | Edmunds

What is the difference between all-wheel drive and four-wheel drive? Which is right for you in snow, ice or sand? Edmunds sorts out the confusing terminology, explains how AWD and 4WD work, and lays out the pros and cons. Here's handy information for buying your next car, truck or SUV.

www.edmunds.com

 

[JCH13]

I just bought a set of Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2s for about $96/each and a set of wheels for $65/each. I'll keep wear off of my M+S all-terrains that cost more and have superior winter performance. Seems like a win-win.

 

[BurnItDwn]

I just bought a set of Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2s for about $96/each and a set of wheels for $65/each. I'll keep wear off of my M+S all-terrains that cost more and have superior winter performance. Seems like a win-win.

Have heard lots of really good stuff about Nokians, I hope you meet your expectations.

 

[JCH13]

Have heard lots of really good stuff about Nokians, I hope you meet your expectations.

Me too!

It's hard to imagine being disappointed by the top-rated snow tire made by the company that literally invented snow tires, but I suppose we'll see!

 

[BurnItDwn]

Me too!

It's hard to imagine being disappointed by the top-rated snow tire made by the company that literally invented snow tires, but I suppose we'll see!

Well, if you are used to studded tires, these are not studded
Or if they don't last as long as they should...
Or if they are exceptionally loud...
Or if you lose too much fuel economy ...
Or some other reason ...

I know lots of people had mixed results with the "all weather" WR-G4 tires wearing too quickly ... but, those are more or less weird hybrids between traditional all season and winter tires ...

But anyhow, Nokian is always on my short list when it comes to winter tires.

 

[ondma]

Well, if you are used to studded tires, these are not studded
Or if they don't last as long as they should...
Or if they are exceptionally loud...
Or if you lose too much fuel economy ...
Or some other reason ...

I know lots of people had mixed results with the "all weather" WR-G4 tires wearing too quickly ... but, those are more or less weird hybrids between traditional all season and winter tires ...

But anyhow, Nokian is always on my short list when it comes to winter tires.

Yea, I was very interested in the WR-G4 at one point in time. However, now both Goodyear (WeatherReady) and Michelin (Cross Climate +) have come out with "all weather" tires too, and at least in Consumer Reports tire tests, they both are better overall than the WR-G4 and also are winter rated.