Alpha PAL 8942 fan blowing onto HS experiment.

Bad Dude

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
8,464
0
76
Like a lot of the members here, I wonder why Alpha PAL always recommended that the fan be sucking hot air away from the HS and not blowing cool air onto it. So I went as recommended but not satisfy with what I have seen so far. I even got a high speed Sunon fan and the temp is still not as cool as I wanted to be.
Temps with fan sucking hot air away as recommended from Alpha.
-Idle when system has warmed up------36C-38C, depending on day to day temp. outside. No AC running.
-Underload (gaming)-----------------------42C-47C. No AC running.

I thought to myself with so many questions asked but no satisfactory answers, so I went ahead and try the short experiment. I have a Foxconn supercase where there is a 92mm fan sucking hot air out the back. I got two 80mm pulling cool air in from the front but on the bottom are two HDs metal rack which reduce cool air from reaching the inside system a bit. I got a Zalman HP80A fanless heatsink on my Radeon 9700Pro, but it was too hot so I put another 92mm fan right on the side blowing right at the Zalman. I got an Antec True Power 430W. No other fan. All of my fan are connected to the "fan" connectors on the Antec True Power, so the voltage is not full 12V which mean the fan are spinning at low speed.
My case has a very small blow hole on the side of the case, smaller than the size of the 80mm fan so I cannot mount any thing there. I tried the 60mm fan but it does not fit either. So I thought to myself, since it's directly right over the CPU cooler fan, why not use a duct to bring the air directly right on the fan and make the fan blows onto the HS instead. By the way, you have to remove the shroud for the air to blow well onto the heatsink. I figured right, since the alpha fins designs are similar to any other heatsink, why would the alpha not benefit from the cool air blowing onto it to exchange the hot air out of the heatsink.
So:
I went from two 92mm, and two 80mm low speed fan and on top of the Alpha is the high speed noisy Sunon and I mean noisy to a much lower noise system. Basically, I turned the Sunon to blow onto the heatsink, and lowered the speed of the fan. I also made an isolate duct which already there to bring in cool air just to the alpha.
So now that my system is very quiet and cooler.
Present temp with Sunon fan blowing onto the heatsink.
-Idle Temp:-----31C--34C, mostly 34C. No AC running.
-Under Load (Gaming):--------37C--41C. No AC running.

So how about that. By the way, I am running an Intel P4 2.53Ghz OEM chip at 3.06Ghz, and now it's cooler, I clocked it up to 3132Mhz. I plan to go higher later. So I would imagine this is a successful story.
To make this scheme works well, you must have a blow hole with duct isolate to bring in cool air from the side directly right onto the heatsink. And you must remove the shroud.
One more thing, get some metal filter at 2cootek.com to reduce the dust coming through. I use AS3 also as a paste for the CPU.
 

Bluefront

Golden Member
Apr 20, 2002
1,466
0
0
My Alpha without it's shroud is running successfully this way. I'm blowing ambient outside air directly on the heatsink using ductwork....there is no cpu fan necessary. The case fan blowing in right on the Alpha keeps my cpu about 4c over ambient at an idle.
 

RalfHutter

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2000
3,202
0
76
I can see why you'd get those results since you have a source of cool(er than case) air to suck in to the CPU right above the HSF. In a typical case (with no side blow-hole) there is no convevient source of cooler-than-case-air nearby. That's why there's no advantage to having the Alpha blow down rather than suck away. In your case you have a source of cool air that you can pull in to blow onto the CPU.

I've done the same experiment under more typical conditions (no side blow-hole near the HSF) and got the expected results: fan sucking from 8942 cools better than fan blowing. The fan I used wasa Panaflo L1A running at 12V. I got around 2°C cooler temps with the fan sucking as opposed to blowing. FWIW.
 

Bad Dude

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
8,464
0
76
Well, I had the fan sucking air off into the duct to go directly outside but the temp does not change and still warmer.
 

Tuff

Member
Dec 27, 2002
79
0
0
Present temp with Sunon fan blowing onto the heatsink.
-Idle Temp:-----31C--34C. No AC running.
-Under Load (Gaming):--------37C--41C. No AC running.

So how about that. By the way, I am running an Intel P4 2.53Ghz OEM chip at 3.06Ghz, and now it's cooler, I clocked it up to 3132Mhz. I plan to go higher later. So I would imagine this is a successful story.


I would be careful...it sounds like you are getting your temps from something that is not accurate...31 deg C would be hard enough to obtain with water cooling...and with that kind of overclock...I would suspect the readings are false.

I do not mean to discourage you..but...better safe than sorry...I have used Scisoft and had remarkably low temp readings while air cooling...turns out it reads off the wrong sensor..Get Motherboard Monitor and set it up to read off the correct Thermo...then let us know what kind of temps you are achieving.

Tuff
 

Bad Dude

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
8,464
0
76
Actually, that's the reading from the motherboard itself. The motherboard monitor that everyone loves, does not seem to report correctly with this Gigabyte GA-8PE677 Ultra. I use the one that provided from Gigabyte on the CD.
The idle temp is mostly at 34C. So 31C is just when running for 5 minutes after booted up. I would say 34C idle.
 

snowwie

Member
Aug 8, 2002
137
0
0
I have a Gigabyte GA-8PE667 Ultra 2, and MBM works very well with it

I can also read the temp from easytune 4

easytune 4 and MBM agree, so I'm sure I'm using the right sensor

I get 32 idle with an MCX-4000 + TMD, 29 idle with a tornado (22 ambient)

So he's right, though maybe gigabyte's sensor is out of whack

we all know that Idle temps don't matter anyway
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,224
306
126
Sorry about the double post.

This isn't brain surgery.

The most efficient thermal transfer occurs when the temperatures between the two mediums are at a maximum differential. Sucking air INTO the heatsink, thereby having it traverse the outer edges of the heatsink fins which are closer to air temperature and then heating the air prior to it reaching the center or the sink (which keeps the air differential low) is LESS efficient than blowing air directly into the center of the sink on the hottest portion and having maximum heat transfer.

It's simple college level heat and mass transfer - there are no mysteries here. Now move along.
 

EdipisReks

Platinum Member
Sep 30, 2000
2,722
0
0
Originally posted by: LsDPulsar
Sorry about the double post.

This isn't brain surgery.

The most efficient thermal transfer occurs when the temperatures between the two mediums are at a maximum differential. Sucking air INTO the heatsink, thereby having it traverse the outer edges of the heatsink fins which are closer to air temperature and then heating the air prior to it reaching the center or the sink (which keeps the air differential low) is LESS efficient than blowing air directly into the center of the sink on the hottest portion and having maximum heat transfer.

It's simple college level heat and mass transfer - there are no mysteries here. Now move along.

i imagine that Alpha Novatech is a little more knowledgable about heatsink design than you are.

 

Bad Dude

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
8,464
0
76
Originally posted by: EdipisReks
Originally posted by: LsDPulsar
Sorry about the double post.

This isn't brain surgery.

The most efficient thermal transfer occurs when the temperatures between the two mediums are at a maximum differential. Sucking air INTO the heatsink, thereby having it traverse the outer edges of the heatsink fins which are closer to air temperature and then heating the air prior to it reaching the center or the sink (which keeps the air differential low) is LESS efficient than blowing air directly into the center of the sink on the hottest portion and having maximum heat transfer.

It's simple college level heat and mass transfer - there are no mysteries here. Now move along.

i imagine that Alpha Novatech is a little more knowledgable about heatsink design than you are.

I am not so sure that he is. I think that's an exact copy from the Physics text book. It's just something he learned recently.
I have mastered Physics since he was still in diapers. So the bragging is no good with me. I was trying to help other members with my experiment. Afterall this is a computer hardware place and not Physics.
Anyway, he will learn that bragging does not benefit in this situation.

 

Yourself

Platinum Member
Jan 3, 2000
2,542
0
71
damn those are goog temps. I am at 30c idling on a P4 2.4@ 3.3 using water cooling.


Self
 

Bad Dude

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
8,464
0
76
What are you talking about Yourself? You are idling at 30C. I think the H2O cool CPU is more constant with the temp than air cool.
 

THUGSROOK

Elite Member
Feb 3, 2001
11,847
0
0
for alpha pal users that have the fan blowing down onto the HS.....

remove the aluminum shroud and mount the fan directly on the HS ~ its worth 1 to 2*C full load.

 
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