alrighty... Now that I have this job, i need to learn how to do it

[Mski0032]

soo... I am now a network administrator with absolutely no training, minus networking for a lan party.
I posted a question or to previously
Old Post

The network has Vector DSL as their ISP, 30+ computers are hooked to a switch. There used to be a server that was used to receive email and store data, but that was recently removed (this morning). THat server controlled a network enabled printer and the email for my boss. Now, since the server was removed, there is no printer. The boss would like the three computers that are for her, her secretary and the receptionist to be on a small network, not visible to the other offices, but this small network must connect to the internet through the same hub that connects all the other offices to the net.

soooo... any suggestions id appreciate it... alsooooo... I have a major favor to ask of a fellow AnandForum user.... if there is a real network administrator willing to lend a helping hand, I will have a few questions over the course of the next week or two. If one of you would be willing to email me... MJMulvahill@wisc.edu... and give me some help that would be awesome. If i could maybe call ya when i have an issue and when your not busy... that sort of thing, that way i can get this working and keep the job.. Grazi fellow computer nerds.
Im off to fix the damn printer whooohoo!
mski

 

[GoodRevrnd]

I have 0 pity for you. :disgust:

 

[Mski0032]

and whys that...


the old network administrators were jerks too



oh and change your name too... to thejerkface

 

[GoodRevrnd]

It's mostly jealously.


Pick up a NET+ book or something like that though, you can probably pick up a few basics there.

 

[stash]

How did you get a job that you have no experience in?

To answer the question..read, fiddle around with computers on your spare time, read, and oh yeah, read.

 

[Mski0032]

my dads works in the offices, and is the lawyer for the new management (whom i work for now).. they didnt feel like paying 40+$ an hour for a new system administrator, so my dad suggested that i do it...

thanks for the suggestions...

 

[Need4Speed]

sure, but it will cost them twice as much to have it done right later on.

 

[L3Guy]

There are several professionals and many other knowledgeable people on the forum. I would simply ask specific questions as they come up.

If I needed a private LAN within a LAN, I would use a small firewall or "router" to segment a small switch (8 port) from the rest of the network. While I would hesitate to recommend a "home router" in an office environment, that is the sort of functionality your requirements suggest.

I would also research a LAN printer that has a built in (or external) Ethernet print server.

Good Luck;

Doug

 

[FUBAR]

You could probably get around your problem with some creative (or not so creative) subnetting. The issue may be what you have doing your IP sharing. You will probably need to be able to assign another IP to your router and then block off the computers that are to be private in one subnet and the rest in another.

Of course I haven't ever tried that, but it would seem to be the logical way to work things.

Oh yeah... and remember that people with crappy connections (like having your dad working for your bosses) turns short sighted management off on IT when they pay someone to do a crappy job for years, so do it right or make way for professionals early.

 

[stash]

my dads works in the offices, and is the lawyer for the new management (whom i work for now).. they didnt feel like paying 40+$ an hour for a new system administrator, so my dad suggested that i do it...

Ahhh, the old family connection...works everytime.

if only the real world were so simple.

 

[Mucman]

Stop raggin on the guy... I was in the same position a year ago... do some searching of my name in this forum and you will find me asking some pretty dumb questions

Mski0032 - What kind of network gear do you have at your disposal?

 

[Alkali]

I dont have a problem helping you if and when you can post up requests for help, I'm a Network Administrator for a 4,100 employee company

My advice if your serious about networking, is to look into a Cisco CCNA or similar course, which will give you skills in IP addressing, subnetting, routers, switches, hubs, cabling technology, and practical experience too. If you need a quick fix, cant afford the course etc, best thing to do is buy a good book on the subject, there are plenty out there

Good luck

 

[smooth1]

Hi, I'm currently enrolled in A+ and Network course at my college. Do you know any of the websites or forums that have outlines of these courses? Thanks

 

[Alkali]

Ok, this site is not the simplest in the world, but here's the Cisco outlines from Cisco itself...

Cisco Courses

And heres a quick overview of the particular course I would reccomend...

CCNA

 

[mboy]

Same boat (well 9 months ago anyway) Network admin 1st time, no experience. Walked into a disaster.

7 servers (4 NT-3 nix) and 50 workstations connected by 5 cascaded hubs with 30 foot cables to each port from port on wall that was 2 feet away. (hubs werent even in the rack, just right on top of each other).

Changed that real fast.

In the past 10 months I have upgrade 2 NT servers to raid 5 arrays with total system rebuilds. Replaced router ( and set up-fractional T1), added hardware firewall, replaced hubs with 24 port 10/100 switches, Fixed every single workstation, laptop, printer and server problem from the morons before me. Even was able to restore an old server that crashed where they had to redo most of the tech designs on it. Oh, yeah, even recovered a damaged Raid 5 array last week

How did I do it? I read like a mofo, here and everything I could get my hands on. Still learning everyday. Best way to learn is just do it and when you run into a problem, post here and remember GOOGLE is you friend.

BTW, I opened my 1st computer up just around this time last summer in the middle of an A+ course, before that, never did it before. Now I build them for clients on the side and have to repair them daily here at work(always messing with my LAN at home too !!!

This place helped me most in the beginning for sure!!!!

Next project-- Linux box with apache, samba, bind, snort and acid.
Good luck and feel free to ask me for any help you need (altho I am by far the most knowledgeable person around

 

[Sketcher]

Here's the skinny Mski0032,

Doesn't sound like your environment and situation will allow for much time for a learning curve or trial and error.

1. Contact a local consulting outfit who can get a certified Administrator (who is familiar with your items of concern) onsite ASAP. You have a relatively simple network environment which shouldn't require an extensive long term contract to get up and running the way everyone wants. It's just with your level of experience, there are enough unique issues with every piece of hardware and software that you are wanting to implement that posting in a forum for help isn't going to get you where you want to be.

2. You will spend approx $65 - $90.00 per hour for a skilled Administrator ( some more or some less depending on location and expertise), but you certainly lose more than that per hour in down time through lost employee wages, productivity, customer dissatisfaction etc...

3. You can work beside the Admin (don't hire on one that won't let you) and learn as you go. If you develop a good relationship there, you should have a resource who is familiar with your needs, your level of knowledge, and who can help you out in a pinch when needed.

4. Part of the job of an Administrator is to know when to ask for help, and when to pay for it. If keeping your company running means you hire in someone who knows what to do - and gets the job done to a point where you can take over, or learn it so you're better prepared for similar situations, you're good to go. Often, there are too many aspects of a Network and full implementation of technology for any one Network Admin to personally attend to it all. It is perfectly acceptable to allow for consulting, engineering or other types of outsource help to accomplish goals. In fact, IT Consulting/Engineering should be a budgeted item for the company.

There simply isn't always time to learn as you go, learn from square one - or even pick up where someone else left off when downtime is critical and your job is on the line.

As far as getting help in this forum - there are some good Admins and Techs here - but for the help to meet your needs, you're going to have to be specific in your questioning.

My advice thus far, is get someone in to get you running and learn as much as you can while that person is onsite. You'll still get the credit for getting the network where it's supposed to be, and you're bulding experience as you go. Cost reasoning for doing this is that it will cost less to hire in a consultant short term than hire a full or even part time admin position - plus, it'll give you valuable learning experience which will be immediately useful. Further, even if down the road, your company decides to hire on a full time Admin in your place - you can position for Assistant Admin, or at least be a backup for the Admin as needed. Eventually you'll have the experience to fill in during that person's absence, or even take over (without panicking) if that person move's on, is let go etc...

But by all means, post the specific questions and it'll be much easier to address your issues.

Good Luck!

-Sketcher

 

[Fatt]

What operating systems are you dealing with?

 

[Fatt]

Also, why did they remove the server?

 

[PELarson]

"The boss would like the three computers that are for her, her secretary and the receptionist to be on a small network, not visible to the other offices, but this small network must connect to the internet through the same hub that connects all the other offices to the net"

Still think the advice to use a Router w/ switch to connect the 3 PC's and printer is the best solution.

 

[JustinLerner]

Since security seems to be a concern here's my recommendation.

Easiest solution: Buy a couple 24 port VLAN capable switches like the LinkySys EG24M (approx $540/ea + tax & shipping) from Provantage.com or $515 from MWave.com. Read up about and employ a different VLAN for each segment that needs isolation or has different security needs. Use a single Firewall with NAT hardware device for the corporate access to the internet. (Sorry, gaming should not be allowed outside the corporate LAN/WAN by opening holes in the Firewall/NAT since security is an issue with the boss.)

---
added: Protocols are typically 802.3ac for explicit VLANs, 802.1p and 802.1q for implicit VLANS. The above mentioned switch does not support explicit or 802.3ac VLANS, only the implicit (switch implementations only, not via the NIC).

Here are some VLAN requirements as stated by Intel:
>Each VLAN will add to the load time and RAM/CPU utilization.
>Each VLAN requires a unique address on a separate subnet.
>There may be more than one VLAN per adapter, but WINS will only connect over the first VLAN.
>In some OS's, the term 'team' is used for the virtual adapter, so there may be a team of one adapter for VLANs or there may be a regular link aggregated team of multiple adapters that also does VLANs simultaneous with a mode of link aggregation.
---

For the printer, use a dedicated print server (Ethernet connected hardware) or reuse another PC as the print server (if the PC has multiple LPT ports and can manage print jobs.)
If the printer is a serial printer (not parallel), there are print servers that have available serial ports, but you will need to look harder for these, but normally serial connected printers work with proprietary 'Nix systems, so if you have such a printer and the system is no longer operational, you may just need to buy another laser printer.

If you are novice management without any support associates, ensure you implement simple, efficient, secure, and functional designs. Make sure you have written backup plans and instructions for data recovery [the loss of data is probably the most significant items to consider], system and server recovery and restoration; virus detection and removal; intrusion detection, prevention, interdiction and response; corporate LAN, WAN, and Internet access policies [access and authorization for use and dissemination of information, information security and classification of all company data, intellectual property declarations, and other things you may think of].

There are a lot of things to consider subsequent to the initial setup of isolated network segments for security of information.

 

[mboy]

Dude, you are trying to get this kid to set up vlans and such with a managed switch when he barely knows the difference between a hub and a switch
Might as well tell him to get any of the BSD's and build himself a router to use instead to seprate his boss from the rest of the offices (her boss probably wont like the idea of not seeing her network tho).

 

[JustinLerner]

Although the 'home proxy router' type switch may be the easiest route if they really don't want to spend money. In my experience, the easy way is not usually the better way.

Truly as you say, managed switches are not for newbies, but then again this is really the type of solution he really needs. (Then again, IT admin jobs with specific IT security requests are not really for newbies either.) These switches are robust and expandable, not more limited home 'proxy router' type devices. These switches have Gigabit expansion slots for future Gigabit capability.

Since they hired him without any experience, they must have already made some concessions regarding his IT technical capabilites. If he is not able to setup and test such a setup alone, then like already mentioned, he can get an outside IT consultant and contractor to advise and setup the secured VLAN network and have them document their work and subsequently provide the current IT admin (Mskixxx) with the appropriate info and even basic switch management and configuration training.

 

[PELarson]

Unless I am reading the original question wrong, always possible. The question was about creating a network of only 3 pc's and a printer that is connected to the internet via a connection through a network with 30 pc's. If we where talking about the large network then a managed switch with a Cisco router and a dedicated firewall would make sense. But, if as I read it there is only 3 pc's and a rinter a cable router w/ switch would do the job.

 

[JustinLerner]

The request states: "The boss would like the three computers that are for her, her secretary and the receptionist to be on a small network, not visible to the other offices, but this small network must connect to the internet through the same hub that connects all the other offices to the net."

This is a private group of 3 PC's isolated from a group of 30 other PC's in the same company all connected to either a hub (preferably a switch) that has shared internet access.

VLANS were specifically designed to address the exact issue he refers to: isolating or segmenting sections of LANs from other sections to provide for security of information. VLANs aren't mandatory to accomplish this. For example, if using Windows 2000 Servers, there are implementations that can be made in the AD and OU's that can restrict or limit the two groups, including domain browsing, yet they can all be in the same network and subnet or even different subnets.

Last, Cisco is not necessary because the cost would then double. There are many brands of switches that provide just as much functionality as Cisco at better cost.

 

[JustinLerner]

After reading Mskixxx other previous thread, I fully stand by my assertions.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=36&threadid=850537
"This floor of the building is has 30+ law offices of independant lawyers. I need to create a network of 3 computers and a printer for the manager of the floor. This small network needs to connect into the same internet connection as the rest of the offices on the floor."

In this situation, there appears to be something like a legal coop. If the 30+ lawyers are all independant, eventually, many of them will want the security of information, but still the ability to consult, cooperate, etc via LAN, e-mail, voice mail, etc. VLAN is the correct way to start this job, because this appears to be the direction this consortium will probably head.

---
In conjuntion with Windows 2000 server OU's, they can even setup different working groups for differenent projects, cases, etc.