Alternative to Greenbacks Gives the Feds a Run for Their Money

[Dissipate]

Alternative Money Has Redeeming Value

News Channel Video Clip

The Federal Reserve Note now has some competition as there are now $3 million worth of privately minted/printed American Liberty Dollars in circulation in the U.S. and 30,000 people accross the country use them. Is this a scam or the beginning of a monetary evolution?

 

[Spencer278]

I'd guess just a way to avoid paying taxes.

 

[Dissipate]

No, that doesn't make sense. No one gets paid in these things.

 

[b0mbrman]

I'm sure the FED isn't holding their breath

People have had varying levels of confidence in paper currency since its inception. When confidence goes down (due to war or inflation), people buy heavy into gold and other metals--which this guy's money is really just another form of. Nothing really new...

 

[chowderhead]

In Ithaca, Time Is Money

Ithaca is one of many communities in the United States that has added a local currency as a way to encourage a community's self-reliance and interdependence. Ithaca was particularly hard hit by the recession in the late '80s, so in 1991, residents created their own currency in order to help people who didn't have money to spend.

cool idea .... dunno how common it is.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: chowderhead
In Ithaca, Time Is Money

Ithaca is one of many communities in the United States that has added a local currency as a way to encourage a community's self-reliance and interdependence. Ithaca was particularly hard hit by the recession in the late '80s, so in 1991, residents created their own currency in order to help people who didn't have money to spend.

cool idea .... dunno how common it is.

Yeah, I heard about that story. Those were only circulated in Ithaca, and I think it was pretty successful. But, its success is attributable to the fact that it was only circulated in Ithaca. The American Liberty Dollar however is all over the place, not just a single city or town. Although some states such as Texas seem to have more adopters.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: chowderhead
In Ithaca, Time Is Money

Ithaca is one of many communities in the United States that has added a local currency as a way to encourage a community's self-reliance and interdependence. Ithaca was particularly hard hit by the recession in the late '80s, so in 1991, residents created their own currency in order to help people who didn't have money to spend.

cool idea .... dunno how common it is.

Yeah, I heard about that story. Those were only circulated in Ithaca, and I think it was pretty successful. But, its success is attributable to the fact that it was only circulated in Ithaca. The American Liberty Dollar however is all over the place, not just a single city or town. Although some states such as Texas seem to have more adopters.

Thats because Texas is known for its anti-government-anything kooks. Thats coming from a Texan.

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

The Federal Reserve Note now has some competition as there are now $3 million worth of privately minted/printed American Liberty Dollars in circulation in the U.S. and 30,000 people accross the country use them. Is this a scam or the beginning of a monetary evolution?

I'm sure the Fed could care less about with a mere 30k people are doing. 30k people and 3 million is hardly giving anybody a run for their money.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: dirtboy

Originally posted by: Dissipate

The Federal Reserve Note now has some competition as there are now $3 million worth of privately minted/printed American Liberty Dollars in circulation in the U.S. and 30,000 people accross the country use them. Is this a scam or the beginning of a monetary evolution?

I'm sure the Fed could care less about with a mere 30k people are doing. 30k people and 3 million is hardly giving anybody a run for their money.

Yea, they don't care now because it is a relatively small group of people. Things like this start off slow though, they have to given the fact that it has to do with currency. This currency while it is not circulated much now is growing in circulation. It went from $1/2 million to $1 million to $2 million and now $3 million in circulation. If this currency reaches a critical mass say in the year 2020 banks will be forced to accept them and then its all over.

I'm not saying this is likely to happen but what I am saying is that we may be heading into an era in the economy where a government controlled currency is no longer necessary. Inflation being the number one incentive for competing currencies.

 

[0roo0roo]

heh, stupid if it ever gets cracked down on ur stuck with worthless cr@p.

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

I'm not saying this is likely to happen but what I am saying is that we may be heading into an era in the economy where a government controlled currency is no longer necessary. Inflation being the number one incentive for competing currencies.

Care to elaborate on how this new currency will not be subject to the forces of inflation? Care to elaborate on how their won't be any fraud involved with "whomever" is printing or controlling this monies?

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: dirtboy

Originally posted by: Dissipate

I'm not saying this is likely to happen but what I am saying is that we may be heading into an era in the economy where a government controlled currency is no longer necessary. Inflation being the number one incentive for competing currencies.

Care to elaborate on how this new currency will not be subject to the forces of inflation? Care to elaborate on how their won't be any fraud involved with "whomever" is printing or controlling this monies?

Inflation is caused by the federal reserve creating money out of nothing everyday. Everytime you get a loan from the bank for your house, your car or your business the bank literally pulls money out of thin air and loans it to you. This is called fractional reserve banking. If there was a currency made that was not based on this system it might have inflation due to normal market forces, but it would not suffer from the continuous loss of value the U.S. dollar has had for the better part of a century.

I don't know exactly how widespread usage of privately printed/minted currency would work and whether or not it would be controlled by fraud artists, for all I know American Liberty Dollars are being issued by a fradulant organization and they will all become worthless tomorrow. However, from what I have gathered in my online reasearch of NORFED, the organization behind the ALD, the operation seems to be legitimate. There really is a warehouse that contains the precious metals that back the currency and there are redemption centers that will give you FRNs for your ALDs.

The fact that 30,000 people are using an alternative currency in the U.S. means that there is a demand for an alternative to the FRN. And like I said, the reason why is that these people for the most part believe that ALDs are inflation proof currency. Keep in mind that A. This currency has only been out for 5 years. and B. Its usage is growing. These two facts alone, to me are significant, it means that there are people out there who are questioning the federal reserve system and they are willing to go so far as put their faith into a new currency that is backed by an organization not affiliated with the governemnt.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

We can *hope* for a return to the Gold Standard, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I have heard rumour that Greenspan recommends this to every president, every year, but with no luck. Greenspan is, however, a frickin' *Genius*.

Jason

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
We can *hope* for a return to the Gold Standard, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I have heard rumour that Greenspan recommends this to every president, every year, but with no luck. Greenspan is, however, a frickin' *Genius*.

Jason

President Reagan actually explored this idea and he set up a committee to discover if it was feasible. What the committee concluded was that the U.S. actually does not have enough gold to make this possible. Most of the gold at Ft. Knox is owned by foreign countries.

The only way now to end the inflationary spiral is to end fractional reserve banking. In other words not allow banks to loan out money they don't have and also not allow the federal reserve to create money out of nothing to give to the banks. This would also involve the issuance of a new currency that isn't backed by percious metals, just not created out of thin air by any entity.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

I remember that study. Perhaps legislation is in order to begin the process. Perhaps by the time our grandchildren are ready to take over the economy it will have some real value behind it

Jason

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
I remember that study. Perhaps legislation is in order to begin the process. Perhaps by the time our grandchildren are ready to take over the economy it will have some real value behind it

Jason

If the U.S. dollar loses 1% a year by the time people my age have grandchildren the U.S. dollar will be worth 30% less than what it is now. This fact in and of itself is not the biggest issue though, salaries and prices will adjust to the new value of the dollar. The most signifcant fact is that 1% of the economy is pulled right out from underneath everyone's noses. Its basically a hidden tax that few people know about or understand.

 

[Christoph]

If the Liberty dollars aren't allowed to float against the US dollar, what's the point?

Let's say I exchange $10 in Federal Reserve Notes for 10 Liberty dollars today, and over the next year the US experiences inflation. If the Liberty dollar were actually inflation-proof, my 10 Liberty dollars should now be worth more than $10 USD--but they won't be.

 

[b0mbrman]

Yes, and 1% of my student loans are pulled out from underneath everyone's noses ... and >1% of the trade deficit...

BTW, what's causing the current inflation--which isn't nearly as bad as all the signals (weak dollar, high gold value, high commodity prices) would indicate--is all the preparation for the fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq...

Deficit spending + money supply increases + less stuff for consumers to buy (since "The Man" says people like you and me aren't allowed to own tanks ) = Inflation

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Christoph
If the Liberty dollars aren't allowed to float against the US dollar, what's the point?

Let's say I exchange $10 in Federal Reserve Notes for 10 Liberty dollars today, and over the next year the US experiences inflation. If the Liberty dollar were actually inflation-proof, my 10 Liberty dollars should now be worth more than $10 USD--but they won't be.

The way it is supposed to work is this. If you buy a $10 ALD this entitles you to 1 oz. of silver. The market price of silver right now is about $6. NORFED, the organization that is behind the ALD claims this. They claim that once silver reaches a price that is over $10 per ounce they will then base their currency on 1/20 of an ounce of silver instead of 1/10 AND they will let anyone who has the $10 ALD certificates to exchange them one for one for $20 ALD certificates. At the redemption centers these $20 certificates can be redeemed for $20 of FRNs.

Well let's think about this. If you buy a $10 ALD certificate today and hold it until the price of silver reaches a price that is over $10 per ounce then the U.S. dollar will probably have lost half its value in the time that you held this certificate. The reason why is that the price of silver in the long run will keep pace with inflation.

Therefore in theory once the U.S. dollar has lost half its value you can turn it into NORFED and double it again, thus defeating inflation.

This is explained on their web site here..

Whether the company will hold true to its claim is up for debate.

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Inflation is caused by the federal reserve creating money out of nothing everyday.

If that is true and what this is true, "It went from $1/2 million to $1 million to $2 million and now $3 million in circulation" then where was this money created from? Thin air? Hello, is that inflation knocking at the door of this currency...hmmm

 

[markuskidd]

Originally posted by: dirtboy

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Inflation is caused by the federal reserve creating money out of nothing everyday.

If that is true and what this is true, "It went from $1/2 million to $1 million to $2 million and now $3 million in circulation" then where was this money created from? Thin air? Hello, is that inflation knocking at the door of this currency...hmmm

now take a breath... and go read the thread again

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: dirtboy

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Inflation is caused by the federal reserve creating money out of nothing everyday.

If that is true and what this is true, "It went from $1/2 million to $1 million to $2 million and now $3 million in circulation" then where was this money created from? Thin air? Hello, is that inflation knocking at the door of this currency...hmmm

Markus is right. If you read the article or went to the web site norfed.org you would realize that no ALDs are created out of "thin air". They are all paid for on a 1-1 basis with FRNs. Therefore the inflation of the ALD cannot be any greater than the FRN, in fact the inflation of the ALD is tied to the FRN except for the exchange deal the company has.

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: dirtboy

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Inflation is caused by the federal reserve creating money out of nothing everyday.

If that is true and what this is true, "It went from $1/2 million to $1 million to $2 million and now $3 million in circulation" then where was this money created from? Thin air? Hello, is that inflation knocking at the door of this currency...hmmm

Markus is right. If you read the article or went to the web site norfed.org you would realize that no ALDs are created out of "thin air". They are all paid for on a 1-1 basis with FRNs. Therefore the inflation of the ALD cannot be any greater than the FRN, in fact the inflation of the ALD is tied to the FRN except for the exchange deal the company has.

I went to the link after posting that. So you're essentially buying silver. Big whoop. I don't know why anyone would get excited about this. I can barter for things. I can trade things of value for service.

Oddly enough you can only buy this currency with other currency. Seems pretty lame to me.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: dirtboy

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: dirtboy

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Inflation is caused by the federal reserve creating money out of nothing everyday.

If that is true and what this is true, "It went from $1/2 million to $1 million to $2 million and now $3 million in circulation" then where was this money created from? Thin air? Hello, is that inflation knocking at the door of this currency...hmmm

Markus is right. If you read the article or went to the web site norfed.org you would realize that no ALDs are created out of "thin air". They are all paid for on a 1-1 basis with FRNs. Therefore the inflation of the ALD cannot be any greater than the FRN, in fact the inflation of the ALD is tied to the FRN except for the exchange deal the company has.

I went to the link after posting that. So you're essentially buying silver. Big whoop. I don't know why anyone would get excited about this. I can barter for things. I can trade things of value for service.

Oddly enough you can only buy this currency with other currency. Seems pretty lame to me.

No, its not essentially buying silver. You would be a fool to exchange ALDs for silver since their face value is greater than the silver you get for them. Or in the case of the silver liberty dollars if you melt it down and sell the silver you aren't going to get $10 for it.

In any case its not a matter of getting excited. I'm not excited, but I am interested in these facts:

A. In just 5 years there are now $3 million worth of ALDs in circulation.
B. 30,000 people are using them.
C. We are in times of low to average inflation.
D. The amount of ALDs in circulation is growing.

The relevance of facts A, B and D are obvious. You may wonder why fact C is relevant. Well, if you read the article you would know that alternative currencies are usually only considered/used in times of great inflation. For instance in the '70s when the country suffered horrendous inflation alternative currencies were talked about and used somewhat. But here we are in a time where inflation isn't out of control and yet a small yet signficant number of people have turned to an alternative currency. This may be an indicator that people are catching on to the operations of the Federal Reserve and the bad effects of fractional reserve banking.

 

[dirtboy]

Diss,

Don't get me wrong, I am no fan of the Fed system. I wish we would have never gone on it and the gold standard to begin with. Everything was fine when our government (in its infancy) was printing money without any backing. People accpeted it and it worked. When they needed more money they just printed it instead of borrowing. Now we have the Fed and other nations have something similar. It clearly isn't the best, but it seems that we are stuck with it for better or worse.