Am I being racist for wanting my kid to go to a diverse school?

[William Gaatjes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBv8KMXQj1Q&nohtml5=False
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnfFe6GXsgI&nohtml5=False
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtIKubE8D3k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxKY1wiyeEo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7R_eo8AR1g&nohtml5=False
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-gnMgP1WW0&nohtml5=False

That guy should have a show. :biggrin: Taking stereotypes and blow it out of proportion like a pro comedian.
That reminds me of Desmonds, the British comedy about a barber shop in the UK and of course the many movies Eddy Murphy made.

Desmonds :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zdwrJVBjvw&nohtml5=False

 

[Dulanic]

Why is the diversity what you are looking at?

I'll be honest and people can call me a racist, biggot or whatever. I bought a house recently and the schools available in the area played a big part in that. Towards the end we had it down to 2. One went to a school that was majority Caucasian and one was majority Hispanic. I picked the one that was majority Caucasian.

With that said, race wasn't the reason, school quality was. The test scores and overall rating of the school was MUCH lower. Why is that? Well I didn't really care, I just wanted what provided the best opportunity for my son.

Why is it considered racist to judge the facts available to us?

 

[slackerinabox]

Why is the diversity what you are looking at?

I'll be honest and people can call me a racist, biggot or whatever. I bought a house recently and the schools available in the area played a big part in that. Towards the end we had it down to 2. One went to a school that was majority Caucasian and one was majority Hispanic. I picked the one that was majority Caucasian.

With that said, race wasn't the reason, school quality was. The test scores and overall rating of the school was MUCH lower. Why is that? Well I didn't really care, I just wanted what provided the best opportunity for my son.

Why is it considered racist to judge the facts available to us?

You're right, my thought process isn't 'racist' if I take a metrics based approach to the decision, and after much thought she'll be going to catholic school. Another poster hit the nail on the head - it's more about socio-economics than anything, a school that's 37% esl will slow her down. I love public school though - I much prefer a religion free education, but she'll make the move if we can get her into a charter school later. Discipline's a big deal and, while parents are a huge part, I don't want her to be influenced by kids/parents who treat school as nothing but free daycare.

FYI one of the catholic school's we're considering is in a predominantly wealthy african american suburb, and it's on our list because the people who live there are hard working folks with values and discipline that could afford the zip code and paying for school. I know this sounds pretentious, but my ghetto public school cousins scare the hell out of me! It has nothing to do with their race and much more to do with their peers (their parents are 1st gen indian hardworkers, they didn't get the 'yo dawg, gimme da hookup' from them!). They're the type of punks that would add a zero to turn a $100 birthday check from my mom into a $1,000 -stealing from a retired lady! Their values are deplorable, and their zone school then is the same as our kids now...I know that wealthy does not equal moral, but a nun's ruler's more inspiring than an indifferent public school teacher who just doesn't want to get shot or falsely accused when dealing with a trouble student. My wife's a public school teacher, she's aware that she's more babysitter than anything since the vast majority of the parents don't care to make sure their kid do their homework or, hell, bathe occasionally.

 

[Rakehellion]

I only ask because how long until someone saying they want to go to Harvard, which is a majority white school, to get a better education than somewhere else is considered racist? I'm just trying to figure out how deep this logic goes.

Did you even read the thread? This isn't Harvard against Spelman. He just said he doesn't want his kid to go to a black school because they listen to too much rap music.

 

[slackerinabox]

Did you even read the thread? This isn't Harvard against Spelman. He just said he doesn't want his kid to go to a black school because they listen to too much rap music.

That's not what I said. I love hip hop, from def jux to top 40 stuff... "Urban" neighborhoods just limit the experience to hip hop, when I want my kid to have a disco-soul-ska-electro-indie-funk- and classical upbringing. Ever walk into a record store in Jamaica, Queens? You're not going to find U2's Joshua Tree there, or even the good hip hop... "Skeet skeet skeet" will be blasting from a parent's trunk during morning drop off, I guarantee it. The experience is just very myopic, and I understand it's no one's fault.. It is what it is. I'm a more interesting person because my immigrant parents scrubbed toilets to send me to a school where I'd be exposed to proper grammer and The Cure (and Nas). And had friends and assorted pretentious lovely assholes acquaintances who made my childhood more interesting arguing about film and art and baseball and comics - I really enjoyed having a mix around me. Maybe I take it more personally because I look very african american, the fact that I carry myself 'upper middle class Catholic School raised' vs 'inner city public school' probably has saved me from a lot of unnecessary profiling. In fact, I've been pulled over plenty but get sent away with a handshake more often than not because I was taught properly.. It's "social" but not trivial to me. I know, I'm doing the opposite of what most people here are telling me to do. I get it, I'm a pretentious, bigot asshole - I'm ok with that as long as my kids are in constructive, positive environments.

I know, I want to have it all and don't like "true diversity and all it's sores," and I understand I'm a hypocrite being a minority afraid of a minority majority. I want every group possible to be represented, and for education and discipline to be the number 1 priority with kids and parents who WANT to be there. It's a big difference to me, and worth the 10 grand it's going to cost.. Oye.. Heck, it means that I take my job search from neutral to "holy fuck, get a job you slacker!" This isn't something I'm taking lightly.

 

[Ichinisan]

You are making that school less diverse by avoiding it.

 

[Jaskalas]

if you think an 88% white school will be better, then you are prejudiced

Think of the OP's concern this way.... are you cool living with Chicago style violence and gang shootings? If such violence was known to occur at one place but not another...you'd definitely prefer the latter but their demographics will not be equal.

Different locations and different levels of poverty, violence, and drugs cause different results.

 

[slackerinabox]

You are making that school less diverse by avoiding it.

I know, but grown "urban" (i do mean that, it's not race - hispanic, black, white dudes with goatees) guys whistle at my 4 year old. I'm no Rosa Parks, so other family will be the guinea pigs. I visited, there's literally not one white kid at the public school. My kid is not white, but can pass, and I just don't want to deal with her being an outsider at 4 and a half

 

[cronos]

You are making that school less diverse by avoiding it.

But the OP is (or at least looks, is what he said) black. Isn't it the other way around then?

 

[slackerinabox]

Think of the OP's concern this way.... are you cool living with Chicago style violence and gang shootings? If such violence was known to occur at one place but not another...you'd definitely prefer the latter but their demographics will not be equal.

Different locations and different levels of poverty, violence, and drugs cause different results.

Yes, and NYC does zoning in headscratching ways. My block is pretty upper middle class, literally the most diverse in the world (Guiness Book). I love the immediate area, but a mile one way is the hood. So a school in the middle would have kids from the project (who I do not judge, it is not their fault - we're such bleeding hearts that my wife is a teacher in the hood, HIGH SCHOOL KIDS WITH LEARNING DISABILITIES). Poop has been thrown at her. See adriane brody's movie on NYC schools. The school is half a mile away but a world apart socially and socio-economically. All the white kids here go to private school (jewish is popular), and I understand that's part of the problem but I completely empathize.

 

[slackerinabox]

But the OP is (or at least looks, is what he said) black. Isn't it the other way around then?

I'm south indian, we're darker than the pretty bollywood folks and my grand-pa could pass for uncle ben (african dna is guaranteed). My kid's a halfsies (my wife whiter than white, mid-western white) so she sticks out for sure.

 

[Jaskalas]

I know, but grown "urban" (i do mean that, it's not race - hispanic, black, white dudes with goatees) guys whistle at my 4 year old. I'm no Rosa Parks, so other family will be the guinea pigs. I visited, there's literally not one white kid at the public school. My kid is not white, but can pass, and I just don't want to deal with her being an outsider at 4 and a half

So you are scared of being an extreme minority faced with a vast majority.

 

[slackerinabox]

So you are scared of being an extreme minority faced with a vast majority.

That's part of it. It's not just one issue. I was the only indian kid in an irish/italian/catholic elementary school for a few years and HATED it too, i was different and the kids were kids (cruel)... Every catholic school we're looking at has a neighborhood representative amount of most races, they also happen to have great scores and results for the most part with a 100% english student body and low student to teacher ratios (1:20 vs 1:40+). When she's older she may get into a specialized public school like I did, and I hope she loves it even though everyone was pretty much asian

 

[DrPizza]

but they also have the best political and business connections. Thats worth more than actually knowing stuff.

Those connections are good for those kids, not for the OP's kid. The point is a pretty good point - we moved our kids around a couple times in elementary. At one point, they were hanging out with all doctor's and lawyer's kids. We had to put an end to a few of those friendships around middle school age - a lot of major trouble-makers, drugs, etc. Their rule was, "it's okay unless you get caught your daddy can't get you out of it."

 

[VtPC83]

Did you even read the thread? This isn't Harvard against Spelman. He just said he doesn't want his kid to go to a black school because they listen to too much rap music.

LOL that is not what he said at all but well done fitting his words to your agenda.

And anyway, to use your verbiage, if he didn't want his kids to listen to rap music then, by simple statistics, he shouldn't send them to a black school because they have a higher propensity to listen to rap music. That isn't racist, that is just a parent making a choice for his children based on statistics and evidence.

 

[SP33Demon]

That's not what I said. I love hip hop, from def jux to top 40 stuff... "Urban" neighborhoods just limit the experience to hip hop, when I want my kid to have a disco-soul-ska-electro-indie-funk- and classical upbringing. Ever walk into a record store in Jamaica, Queens? You're not going to find U2's Joshua Tree there, or even the good hip hop... "Skeet skeet skeet" will be blasting from a parent's trunk during morning drop off, I guarantee it. The experience is just very myopic, and I understand it's no one's fault.. It is what it is. I'm a more interesting person because my immigrant parents scrubbed toilets to send me to a school where I'd be exposed to proper grammer and The Cure (and Nas). And had friends I could and assorted pretentious lovely assholes who made my childhood more interesting talking about film and art and baseball and comics - I really enjoyed having a mix around me. Maybe I take it more personally because I look very african american, the fact that I carry myself 'upper middle class Catholic School raised' vs 'inner city public school' probably has saved me from a lot of unnecessary profiling. In fact, I've been pulled over plenty but get sent away with a handshake more often than not because I was taught properly.. It's "social" but not trivial to me. I know, I'm doing the opposite of what most people here are telling me to do. I get it, I'm a pretentious, bigot asshole - I'm ok with that as long as my kids are in constructive, positive environments.

I know, I want to have it all and don't like "true diversity and all it's sores," and I understand I'm a hypocrite being a minority afraid of a minority majority. I want every group possible to be represented, and for education and discipline to be the number 1 priority with kids and parents who WANT to be there. It's a big difference to me, and worth the 10 grand it's going to cost.. Oye.. Heck, it means that I take my job search from neutral to "holy fuck, get a job you slacker!" This isn't something I'm taking lightly.

You hit the nail on the head about "true diversity and all its sores" because true diversity will never work and recent studies prove that:
http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/study-asks-is-a-better-world-possible/
Diversity naturally increases fear and lowers social cohesion, I can link 10 studies in the past 4 years that show this. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have social cohesion with my peers than fear. Like you, I grew up in a majority white school so was picked on a bit/teased with racial slurs from some whites and even more blacks (due to interaction with them in sports). But most of that ended when I did great at varsity sports. After awhile, I even had my own groupies (g/f and her friends) who would go to games just to watch me play. lol

An 87% black school is nowhere near "diverse", so sending her there would be cruel for her formative years. I agree that sending her to that ghetto school will probably have her listening to only rap music and talking about bitches and hoes. That is reality and who gives a shit if anyone says its racist. People get good at observing reality when they've lived for 3 or 4 decades. I was just talking about this the other day with my buddy who is looking to buy a house; we were wondering why heavily black neighborhoods are usually worth less on the market in our area (DC metro) as well as houses near trailer parks (some trailer parks which are in traditionally expensive zip codes). And this is coming from someone who enjoyed rap as a youth (big L, rakim, em, NWA, geto boys, mc eiht, snoop, dre, pac, biggie, jigga, gravediggaz, souls of mischief, wu, epmd, lords of the underground, redman etc) but also listened to metal, classic rock, alternative rock, classical, and 80's pop. So your theory is probably right that a school that is majority white (like catholic school) will probably listen to the biggest variety of music and not just rap. I applaud you for recognizing this, and FWIW my wife (catholic) and I are probably going to send our kids to catholic school as well. It's a tougher decision for us though since the public schools in our area are blue ribbon (usually 10/10 or 9/10).

 

[quikah]

On the one hand I love public school myself and dreaded catholic school - math and science were not a priority at all, and they even taught creationism back in my day!

You went to a crappy Catholic school if that was your experience. I had quite a good experience Gr 1-8 at Catholic School, lots of good science and math. This was in the '80s.

 

[NetWareHead]

You went to a crappy Catholic school if that was your experience. I had quite a good experience Gr 1-8 at Catholic School, lots of good science and math. This was in the '80s.

I also went to Catholic school in the 80s and 90s and we were never taught creationism. We had a full blown biology and chemistry lab and were taught non-religious scientific principles.

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

So what if you are racist? There is literally nothing wrong with being racist.

 

[slackerinabox]

You went to a crappy Catholic school if that was your experience. I had quite a good experience Gr 1-8 at Catholic School, lots of good science and math. This was in the '80s.

You're right, when I went to catholic school there wasn't a required curriculum so schools were very inconsistent. This are much better post 90s I believe, there was a big push for standards

 

[shortylickens]

I went to a very diverse grade school, junior high, and senior high.

It doesnt matter. All of my complaints about minorities come from dealing with real people in the grown up world.

 

[KMFJD]

I also went to Catholic school in the 80s and 90s and we were never taught creationism. We had a full blown biology and chemistry lab and were taught non-religious scientific principles.

Same here...

 

[core2slow]

Why can't you just enroll your kid into a school based on the quality of the education? Why must it always be about race and diversity?

 

[Sheep]

You got lucky. Black kids in my school were terrorized for sport (1970s).
Nobody ever had an issue with other races though. Never had any race wars except black vs white.

I was in elementary and high school in the 80's and early 90's in the Chicago suburbs; I have no doubt that people's experiences will vary depending on where they are in this case. In my schools, true to stereotypes, black students tended to be better athletes and Asians tended to have book smarts. Beyond the usual elementary and high school students being jerks (which is true of literally every single school that has ever existed), maybe I was lucky I never experienced any of what you described.

 

[slackerinabox]

LOL that is not what he said at all but well done fitting his words to your agenda.

And anyway, to use your verbiage, if he didn't want his kids to listen to rap music then, by simple statistics, he shouldn't send them to a black school because they have a higher propensity to listen to rap music. That isn't racist, that is just a parent making a choice for his children based on statistics and evidence.

Appreciate the support. And if it were an all hispanic school with a heavy "urban" influence I'd have the same trepidation. I won't pretend that I have a lot of black friends because that's a liberal lie, but I respect their contribution and empathize with the causes of 'ghetto' values (and I don't even blame, a kid born into that situation has an increased chance of poverty, prison, or worse and you can't blame the kid), but I don't need to subject my own children to those environmental factors just because I empathize.