Am I being racist for wanting my kid to go to a diverse school?

[slackerinabox]

You hit the nail on the head about "true diversity and all its sores" because true diversity will never work and recent studies prove that:
http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/study-asks-is-a-better-world-possible/
Diversity naturally increases fear and lowers social cohesion, I can link 10 studies in the past 4 years that show this. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have social cohesion with my peers than fear. Like you, I grew up in a majority white school so was picked on a bit/teased with racial slurs from some whites and even more blacks (due to interaction with them in sports). But most of that ended when I did great at varsity sports. After awhile, I even had my own groupies (g/f and her friends) who would go to games just to watch me play. lol

I actually believe in true diversity, and believe the world will be a better place in 100 years when every kids as mixed as mine. My problem is that black/hispanic "hip hop" culture is a very segregate one that's insular, and I don't even blame them for that. The cities and schools were set up in a way to keep poverty in projects away from the white people (and their cultural influence) and I empathize. People there are also culturally segregated, meaning they often listen to exclusively black music and watch shit like tyler perry. The liberal part of me believes that's white people's fault and a remnant of the civil rights movement and separate bathrooms/drinking faucets, so I don't have an iota of hate towards marginalized groups. But I don't want my kids in that environment. But please don't read this as me hating black culture - In fact, I think a black kids who are eclectic are simply the coolest people on the planet (seriously, black nerds are awesome people).

So your theory is probably right that a school that is majority white (like catholic school) will probably listen to the biggest variety of music and not just rap. I applaud you for recognizing this, and FWIW my wife (catholic) and I are probably going to send our kids to catholic school as well. It's a tougher decision for us though since the public schools in our area are blue ribbon (usually 10/10 or 9/10).

Yes, I think music/cultural influences is a huge thing, a lifechanging thing. Before catholic school I had no idea what Nirvana was and I had no idea that white girls were cute and feminine unlike the mustached indian girls around me... Being exposed to differences was eye opening and completely changed my personality, and I believe it's as important as test scores and safety metrics. My kids rock out to the beastie boys and tribe almost daily so I have genuine affection for hip hop, but their mixes have a lot of 90s alt and bjork too, they're cooler that way.

 

[purbeast0]

You went to a crappy Catholic school if that was your experience. I had quite a good experience Gr 1-8 at Catholic School, lots of good science and math. This was in the '80s.

i went to catholic schools from preK - 12. we had great science and math as well. i took AP calculus and AP physics my senior year in highschool and AP'd out of them for college.

my grade school was not too diverse though. it was a tiny school. my graduating class had 22 people in it in 8th grade. 4 of them were black.

highschool on the otherhand was very diverse. i'd say it was split like 30% white, 30% black, 20% spanish, 20% asian. it was located in DC where there is a lot of diversity anyways.

 

[skimple]

You are making that school less diverse by avoiding it.

Not OP's problem. Why should OP have to sacrifice their child's future on the alter of political ideology?

Its NYC - not exactly a bastion of right-wing racism. The people that are sending their kids to private schools are not doing it because they don't like the percentages of different races at the public schools. They are doing it because they want to children to be around other children whose parents believe education is important.

Its not diversity of race that's the problem with the public schools - its the diversity of attitudes towards education, discipline, and respect for others.

You'll do a better service to society by providing your child with a good education and teaching them compassion for others, than you can ever do by trying to force racial statistics into line.

 

[Ichinisan]

Not OP's problem. Why should OP have to sacrifice their child's future on the alter of political ideology?

Its NYC - not exactly a bastion of right-wing racism. The people that are sending their kids to private schools are not doing it because they don't like the percentages of different races at the public schools. They are doing it because they want to children to be around other children whose parents believe education is important.

Its not diversity of race that's the problem with the public schools - its the diversity of attitudes towards education, discipline, and respect for others.

You'll do a better service to society by providing your child with a good education and teaching them compassion for others, than you can ever do by trying to force racial statistics into line.

"Not OP's problem"
He seems to think it was a problem that deserved making this thread.

"Trying to force racial statistics into line"
OP is choosing a school based on its racial makeup.

 

[rh71]

Diversity aside, move to the suburbs if you care about your kid's education. I'm 0% caucasian and didn't have problems (other than the occasional remark from kids) in a mostly white area. Diversity has improved even more since 20+ years ago. If I felt it was an issue, we wouldn't have stayed here for our kids. It's not the 80s anymore. Even the white kids growing up here understand there are other races and everyone is equal. Fewer parents are racist like the old days and they fix the problem before it begins. School materials have all kinds of races in them now (surprised me too) so it's natural for kids to accept differences.

Diversity as a positive in city schools is overrated. We have friends who were big proponents of that and now that they have to face reality with their kids, they are changing their minds.

The people that are sending their kids to private schools are not doing it because they don't like the percentages of different races at the public schools. They are doing it because they want to children to be around other children whose parents believe education is important.

Its not diversity of race that's the problem with the public schools - its the diversity of attitudes towards education, discipline, and respect for others.

Exactly. Which is why NYC education outside of a few top schools is undesirable no matter the races.

 

[slackerinabox]

Diversity as a positive in city schools is overrated. We have friends who were big proponents of that and now that they have to face reality with their kids, they are changing their minds.



Exactly. Which is why NYC education outside of a few top schools is undesirable no matter the races.

I think my definition of "diversity" is being misread - I don't want every race to be represented evently, I'd just like the school to reflect the diversity of the community (vs. trucking in kids from the projects, which is what nyc does). For example, my neighborhood is 20-30% black but the school is over 80% so, that sort of rift is not representative of the area and allows one group to set the cultural tone. If my neighborhood were 80%+ black I couldn't complain, since it's reflective of the area. My wife works at a public school Brooklyn Heights, a very ritzy area, but the kids are all bused in from the ghetto so metal detectors and fights are the norm (and nearly every local parent sends their kids to private prep schools because of that reality).

Great news all around - my wife and kid interviewed at a very well regarded catholic school (where religious studies are optional) and was accepted. The tuition's a bit steep but our in-laws offered to chip in without skipping a beat though we probably won't take them up on the offer. My wife was even offered a job on the spot as a substitute teacher, which is perfect because she's quitting her public school teaching job to take care of our youngest. If she impresses them enough school's free for full time teachers, and our youngest will be school ready soon as well. The principal even offered to dip into the donor scholarship fund to help cover tuition since I'm currently looking for work and they don't want money to be the determining factor- pretty amazing reception and we now feel 100% positive that we made the right decision.

Diversity aside (it's a great mix), the school's passing rate on standardized math tests for 1st thru 3rd was between 68-72% vs 28-31% at the zone school, crushing my math concerns. They meet or exceed common core standards, and discipline is highly valued. Honors students get demoted if they're late 3 times, as an example, and strictness if far preferable to apathetic administration which is kinda the norm in public school.

 

[SP33Demon]

I think my definition of "diversity" is being misread - I don't want every race to be represented evently, I'd just like the school to reflect the diversity of the community (vs. trucking in kids from the projects, which is what nyc does). For example, my neighborhood is 20-30% black but the school is over 80% so, that sort of rift is not representative of the area and allows one group to set the cultural tone. If my neighborhood were 80%+ black I couldn't complain, since it's reflective of the area. My wife works at a public school Brooklyn Heights, a very ritzy area, but the kids are all bused in from the ghetto so metal detectors and fights are the norm (and nearly every local parent sends their kids to private prep schools because of that reality).

Great news all around - my wife and kid interviewed at a very well regarded catholic school (where religious studies are optional) and was accepted. The tuition's a bit steep but our in-laws offered to chip in without skipping a beat though we probably won't take them up on the offer. My wife was even offered a job on the spot as a substitute teacher, which is perfect because she's quitting her public school teaching job to take care of our youngest. If she impresses them enough school's free for full time teachers, and our youngest will be school ready soon as well. The principal even offered to dip into the donor scholarship fund to help cover tuition since I'm currently looking for work and they don't want money to be the determining factor- pretty amazing reception and we now feel 100% positive that we made the right decision.

Diversity aside (it's a great mix), the school's passing rate on standardized math tests for 1st thru 3rd was between 68-72% vs 28-31% at the zone school, crushing my math concerns. They meet or exceed common core standards, and discipline is highly valued. Honors students get demoted if they're late 3 times, as an example, and strictness if far preferable to apathetic administration which is kinda the norm in public school.

Congrats! Looks like you've found a great solution. Discipline is good for kids in their formative years.

That is depressing that NYC buses kids in from other areas, awful. Makes me thankful our area doesn't do that.

 

[slackerinabox]

Congrats! Looks like you've found a great solution. Discipline is good for kids in their formative years.

That is depressing that NYC buses kids in from other areas, awful. Makes me thankful our area doesn't do that.

Thanks! Yes, it's funny how the things I hated about private school (punished for untucked shirts and other trivial stuff) are what I really look for now, for my kids.

It's super depressing that local schools rarely reflect the local community. I understand the bleeding heart reasoning, but caps and quotas are a good thing. I want poor kids from the ghetto to have a chance, but it should be based on parental participation and some sort of metrics and it shouldn't be the majority. I think my local school's issue is more about the neighborhood literally on the other side of the tracks vs bussing, but city planners put projects close to upper-middle class neighborhoods for similar liberal reasoning. I'm not giving up my liberal card, I still do not blame the children one bit and feel sorry for the ones who have truly apathetic parents, but I'm not going to get used to my kids dropping the n bomb because that's what her friends do.

 

[Hugo Drax]

Think about it, do you want your kid in a school filled with children who speak ebonics, hate school and have hours of negative peer pressure work against your child?

Some of that rubs off. better to find a school with a much higher caliber of students.

 

[Hugo Drax]

I think my definition of "diversity" is being misread - I don't want every race to be represented evently, I'd just like the school to reflect the diversity of the community (vs. trucking in kids from the projects, which is what nyc does). For example, my neighborhood is 20-30% black but the school is over 80% so, that sort of rift is not representative of the area and allows one group to set the cultural tone. If my neighborhood were 80%+ black I couldn't complain, since it's reflective of the area. My wife works at a public school Brooklyn Heights, a very ritzy area, but the kids are all bused in from the ghetto so metal detectors and fights are the norm (and nearly every local parent sends their kids to private prep schools because of that reality).

Great news all around - my wife and kid interviewed at a very well regarded catholic school (where religious studies are optional) and was accepted. The tuition's a bit steep but our in-laws offered to chip in without skipping a beat though we probably won't take them up on the offer. My wife was even offered a job on the spot as a substitute teacher, which is perfect because she's quitting her public school teaching job to take care of our youngest. If she impresses them enough school's free for full time teachers, and our youngest will be school ready soon as well. The principal even offered to dip into the donor scholarship fund to help cover tuition since I'm currently looking for work and they don't want money to be the determining factor- pretty amazing reception and we now feel 100% positive that we made the right decision.

Diversity aside (it's a great mix), the school's passing rate on standardized math tests for 1st thru 3rd was between 68-72% vs 28-31% at the zone school, crushing my math concerns. They meet or exceed common core standards, and discipline is highly valued. Honors students get demoted if they're late 3 times, as an example, and strictness if far preferable to apathetic administration which is kinda the norm in public school.

looks like you did the right decision.

 

[Perknose]

OP, I feel for you around some of the abuse you took here in this thread. I could go into depth, but it's all been said already in here by you and by others, so I'll just add that, fwiw, you and your values and concerns are 100% alright with me. :thumbsup:

 

[Hugo Drax]

Not OP's problem. Why should OP have to sacrifice their child's future on the alter of political ideology?

Its NYC - not exactly a bastion of right-wing racism. The people that are sending their kids to private schools are not doing it because they don't like the percentages of different races at the public schools. They are doing it because they want to children to be around other children whose parents believe education is important.

Its not diversity of race that's the problem with the public schools - its the diversity of attitudes towards education, discipline, and respect for others.

You'll do a better service to society by providing your child with a good education and teaching them compassion for others, than you can ever do by trying to force racial statistics into line.

When were were kids I remember my dad driving around the schools to see what kids came out of the schools during dismissal before he rented in the area.

If it was primarily white and/or hispanic, he would move. If it was all black, he would avoid.

It is about self preservation for your children and I definitely understand it. We went to public schools and we did fine but that was because my parents made sure we lived in areas that had a population of people who cared about education and were hard working people. (my parents immigrated from Cuba to this country to better ourselves) So the last thing they wanted was for us to be surrounded with people who hate school and do not care about education. We lived in a lot of working class immigrant neighborhoods.

 

[slackerinabox]

OP, I feel for you around some of the abuse you took here in this thread. I could go into depth, but it's all been said already in here by you and by others, so I'll just add that, fwiw, you and your values and concerns are 100% alright with me. :thumbsup:

Appreciate it! It was only a difficult decision when coming from my "we're all people, one love" bleeding heart perspective. Once I had a clearer perspective the whole "protect your children as best you can" instinct kicked in, and we found a great school that ticks off all of our checklists.

Last thing I'l add is that I ran into the only white student from my 'ghetto' 6th and 7th grade public school... He was a friend of mine so I don't say this with joy or arrogance, it was genuinely sad seeing him behind the counter of a Dairy Queen at 34...

 

[Exophase]

My take is that you're overestimating how much ethnic cultural interchange goes on in elementary schools in the first place. I've been in schools that were predominantly black and I've been in schools that were predominantly white and I really doubt that the former had any different effect on me whatsoever. The kind of norms dictated by their environment and age group probably overwhelms what they all bring from their respective households. Socioeconomic background might influence things a little more but really just a little. Kids will likely end up cliqueing together based on their individual personalities.

Things may be different for highschool, but that's way off for you.

 

[slackerinabox]

My take is that you're overestimating how much ethnic cultural interchange goes on in elementary schools in the first place. I've been in schools that were predominantly black and I've been in schools that were predominantly white and I really doubt that the former had any different effect on me whatsoever. The kind of norms dictated by their environment and age group probably overwhelms what they all bring from their respective households. Socioeconomic background might influence things a little more but really just a little. Kids will likely end up cliqueing together based on their individual personalities.

Things may be different for highschool, but that's way off for you.

Well, that's your experience - mine was very different. My cousins for example moved here at 10 and went from accented indian nerds to hip hop douchebags in a few years, and now that they're in their 20s they're pretty much unemployable aside from maybe stock boy duty. It's the way they carry themselves, and it came from watching their peers.

Also, my own identity as a "coconut" started in catholic elementary school from my first crush, a cute italian girl. It may be weird but my personality changed when I started being interested in what she likes (pearl jam, 'white' movies, etc.). I started to love "white culture" because I was exposed to it in a young age, and I don't know if I'd be married to the woman I love if my first words to her were 'yo dawg, you lookin' mighty fine." The way I was cultured at a young age was direct and life changing.

 

[Exophase]

Well, that's your experience - mine was very different. My cousins for example moved here at 10 and went from accented indian nerds to hip hop douchebags in a few years, and now that they're in their 20s they're pretty much unemployable aside from maybe stock boy duty. It's the way they carry themselves, and it came from watching their peers.

But your experiment doesn't have a control...

Would your cousins have still been accented indian nerds if they went to a predominantly indian school in America (to whatever extent such a thing exists)? How about a predominantly white school? Can you really say for sure? Pretty much everyone changes around that age.

It sounds like your cousins became Americans and that comes from influences that go waaaay beyond the household ethnic backgrounds of the people they go to school with.

You said the school you're looking at it is 12% white. So are you saying it's 88% black, or what is it? Do you think there's this unifying non-white culture?

 

[slackerinabox]

But your experiment doesn't have a control...

Would your cousins have still been accented indian nerds if they went to a predominantly indian school in America (to whatever extent such a thing exists)? How about a predominantly white school? Can you really say for sure? Pretty much everyone changes around that age.

It sounds like your cousins became Americans and that comes from influences that go waaaay beyond the household ethnic backgrounds of the people they go to school with.

I'll let you use your kids as a guinea pig for an A/B experiment. Me? I only have two kids and, unfortunately for science, I want both of them to have the best futures possible and firmly believe that sending them to a school with a 28% pass rate isn't the logical choice.

 

[slackerinabox]

When were were kids I remember my dad driving around the schools to see what kids came out of the schools during dismissal before he rented in the area.

If it was primarily white and/or hispanic, he would move. If it was all black, he would avoid.

It is about self preservation for your children and I definitely understand it. We went to public schools and we did fine but that was because my parents made sure we lived in areas that had a population of people who cared about education and were hard working people. (my parents immigrated from Cuba to this country to better ourselves) So the last thing they wanted was for us to be surrounded with people who hate school and do not care about education. We lived in a lot of working class immigrant neighborhoods.

Yes, this is wht I lay the smack down when the term "lazy [latino]" is said around me. I lived in Bushwick and, gang activity aside (honor based, innocent people were protected) many of my Latin neighbors impressed the hell out of me with their work ethic and gusto for life. I feel awful for ever judging because the culture I saw raised their kids the same way mine raised me. Sure, their are crackheads around buth there are plenty of Caucasian methadone heads walking around the East Village looking for dinner in a trash can. Anyways, yes, it's not race it's culture - we would have been proud to send her to Catholic school in the Spanish part of town - sister hernandez is a beast, and my kids can pass.

 

[slackerinabox]

But your experiment doesn't have a control...

Would your cousins have still been accented indian nerds if they went to a predominantly indian school in America (to whatever extent such a thing exists)? How about a predominantly white school? Can you really say for sure? Pretty much everyone changes around that age.

It sounds like your cousins became Americans and that comes from influences that go waaaay beyond the household ethnic backgrounds of the people they go to school with

I wouldn't send them to an all Indian school either. They wouldn't bathe and I'd have a hard time understanding them. They could pass for Italian/Greek, and I wouldn't argue if they change their last names to Castallocio, if it helps their future. I don't think any majority is a good thing. White isn't a huge issue because it's viewed as the default culture, but Id still prefer a Benton ad, more influence make for more interesting people.

 

[Exophase]

I'll let you use your kids as a guinea pig for an A/B experiment. Me? I only have two kids and, unfortunately for science, I want both of them to have the best futures possible and firmly believe that sending them to a school with a 28% pass rate isn't the logical choice.

Maybe you should have brought up 28% pass rate instead of racial diversity.

But somehow I don't think an elementary school has a 28% pass rate.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

"diverse" = more people like me. Get it. Learn it. Understand it.

Every time that comes out of the mouth of someone that isn't white (nevermind the correlating statistics of whose mouth it does come out of) - as much a politically correct statement as they make it out to be - is simply trying to surround themselves with more people like themselves. It's pretty much a fact at this point. The hypocrisy is hilarious though, so I hope people keep it up. I need a good laugh occasionally. At this point it's honestly a hilarious oxymoron..

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Yes, this is while I lay the smack down when the term "lazy [latino]" is said around me. I lived in Bushwick and, gang activity aside (honor based, innocent people were protected) many of my Latin neighbors impressed the hell out of me with their work ethic and gusto for life. I feel awful for ever judging because the culture I saw raised their kids the same way mine raised me. Sure, their are crackheads around buth there are plenty of Caucasian methadone heads walking around the East Village looking for dinner in a trash can. Anyways, yes, it's not race it's culture - we would have been proud to send her to Catholic school in the Spanish part of town - sister hernandez is a beast, and my kids can pass.

If it's not race or culture, why do I only see one race/culture outside of Home Depot every day of every week?

(Hint: That is in support of your statement overall if you couldn't tell).

 

[slackerinabox]

Maybe you should have brought up 28% pass rate instead of racial diversity.

But somehow I don't think an elementary school has a 28% pass rate.

http://www.syracuse.com/schools/ind..._for_any_school_in_nys_search_for_scores.html

The NYC average was 60ish for the district, this zone school in particular was at 28 to 31 depending on grade level. The catholic school we've registered scored up to 72% Why would I make this up? I have children and a wife and shit to do, do you think I make up statistic to make my internet debates stronger? Man, that's pretty lame and you're pretty lame if that's something in your consciousness as a thing to do.. Do you have a wife? I bet she's not that interesting or attractive, right? Just a theory, could explain your free time and your assumption that I have the time to have fabricated debates.

 

[slackerinabox]

"diverse" = more people like me. Get it. Learn it. Understand it.

Every time that comes out of the mouth of someone that isn't white (nevermind the correlating statistics of whose mouth it does come out of) - as much a politically correct statement as they make it out to be - is simply trying to surround themselves with more people like themselves. It's pretty much a fact at this point. The hypocrisy is hilarious though, so I hope people keep it up. I need a good laugh occasionally. At this point it's honestly a hilarious oxymoron..

Not true in my case, I don't care to have people exactly like me around - it's absoultly boring to me. Jackson Heights, an all indian hood, is my definition of hell. I get allergy attacks, literally. You're just annoying for making blanket statements. I LIKE DIVERSITY. Maybe you don't give a shit, but I do. You nerds assume everything is literal, everyone thinks the same and has a hive mind, and people all have the same preferences. I like diversity, I don't like one group being the massive majority, and I especially don't like that majority to be the human embodiment of the ills of poverty.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Not true in my care, I don't care to have people exactly like me around - it's absoultly boring to me. Jackson Heights, an all indian hood, is my definition of hell. I get allergy attacks, literally. You're just annoying for making blanket statements. I LIKE DIVERSITY. Maybe you don't give a shit, but I do. You nerds assume everything is literal, everyone thinks the same and has a hive mind, and people all have the same preferences. I like diversity, I don't like one group being the massive majority, and I especially don't like that majority to be the human embodiment of the ills of poverty.

Doesn't matter what YOU want, it matters what everyone else of every race wants.

There is a <Insert Race> Part of town in any major city. Here in Texas, we have a specific part of the city called "China town"... simply because a lot of people of Chinese descent inhabit the area and have various Chinese restaurants of all different types. The simple point being is that people of certain type want to be with people of their type.

That is a fact of life, and denial of such facts is simply pathetic and the equivalency of denying science.