Am I wrong for being upset?

[whiteboy81]

Originally posted by: crt1530
Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come:
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.

 

[whiteboy81]

Originally posted by: crt1530
Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come:
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: DWW
What the op is, how he acts, who he loves and whether it is true love does not negate the fact here--his friend wasn't acting out of love, he just wanted to pork her.

You don't know that any more than you know that the OP was a good guy.

Regardless of his friend's actions, the OP still has no standing to be upset. The only reason he has given for being upset is that he was in love. If he is not more in love than is his friend, then his argument has no standing. And I've already established that he cannot have been more in love than his friend.

ZV

 

[whiteboy81]

Originally posted by: crt1530
Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come:
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.

That is a very telling poem and I agree with it's purpose. However, what happens when you have to choose between the love of a daughter who deserves a father and the love of another woman? There is not one instance of love here, there are 3 or more. My love for my daughter, my love for my ex and my best friends love for me. The outcome was me choosing my love for my daughter and my best friend choosing to ignore his love for me.

 

[Ninjja]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Ninjja

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: whiteboy81
I mean he was one person who encouraged me to break up with her to begin with, and now he is with her.

If you were able to be convinced to break up with her, you weren't in love. Sorry.

ZV

I feel like you have a very naive idea of love. To me, you can love someone so much that you don't want to put them through certain things, and you let them go, no matter how much it hurts. Unfortunately, you can't be the judge or whether he was in love or not.

There is absolutely no rule that says she had to move or break up. They could have just as easily stayed together and not had his girlfriend or him move.

ZV

Maybe, but again, who are you to judge? The situation is as he detailed it, not as you are speculating over. Therefore, in this situation, I believe his friend is wrong, especially is he urged him to break up with her, and has no sense of loyalty. While what you say about him staying with her even though his friend was saying the contrary is a good point, again, we can't speculate about Whiteboy's situation. Therefore, with the info Whiteboy has given us, I can understand how he could have considered his best friend of ten years' advice when making his decision and therefore still believe his friend to be in the wrong, and Whiteboy's hurt to be completely justifiable.

Edit: spelling

 

[veggiefrog]

i dont think u are wrong for being upset (u cant change how u feel, just how u act on those feelings blah blah)

it doesnt matter if u still have feelings for her or not, or how long ago u broke up, or whatever -- ur friend should know better than to go sniffing 'round ur ex w/o talkin to u about it first (it's in the rulebook). the decent thing for him to do AT LEAST is call u and give u a heads up b4 bangin her (and dont even get me STARTED on his encouraging u to dump her!) ..... if i was in the same sitch i would feel betrayed/angry/hurt, nevermind upset.

and while 300 miles isnt really a lot, it's far enuf to not be able to make it every wkend (espec if he's got plans w his kid). i wouldnt have broken up over it (princess of LDRs here) but i can see his pt of doing it.


Quote

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So he's ready to give up anything for her, while you weren't willing to. Which one of you is in love here?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

um hello arent u sposed to do what is best for the other person regardless of what it costs u, when ur in love? he didnt want to keep her tied down for her own benefit while he went and did the responsible thing! and to say "give up anything" god forbid he not be a deadbeat dad and not be there for his child; i sure hope u dont have any kids!

 

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: DWW
What the op is, how he acts, who he loves and whether it is true love does not negate the fact here--his friend wasn't acting out of love, he just wanted to pork her.

You don't know that any more than you know that the OP was a good guy.

Regardless of his friend's actions, the OP still has no standing to be upset. The only reason he has given for being upset is that he was in love. If he is not more in love than is his friend, then his argument has no standing. And I've already established that he cannot have been more in love than his friend.

ZV

How to you presume to know whether or not he loved her?

and is there not more to a successful relationship then just love?

And whether the friend loves the girl or not, he is still wrong, as is she for even sniffing around each other. There is such a thing as honor and it is unfortunate that neither of these two have any understanding of it.

 

[Psycho18]

Originally posted by: TuffGuy
(assuming that he's gone down on her)

ask him how your d!ck tastes.

:beer:

ROFL!!!

 

[Ninjja]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: DWW
What the op is, how he acts, who he loves and whether it is true love does not negate the fact here--his friend wasn't acting out of love, he just wanted to pork her.

You don't know that any more than you know that the OP was a good guy.

Regardless of his friend's actions, the OP still has no standing to be upset. The only reason he has given for being upset is that he was in love. If he is not more in love than is his friend, then his argument has no standing. And I've already established that he cannot have been more in love than his friend.

ZV

How to you presume to know whether or not he loved her?

and is there not more to a successful relationship then just love?

And whether the friend loves the girl or not, he is still wrong, as is she for even sniffing around each other. There is such a thing as honor and it is unfortunate that neither of these two have any understanding of it.

I agree KarenMarie.

 

[TallBill]

Meh, just know that you did the right thing for your daughter. Forget them.. They live far away.

 

[DWW]

Originally posted by: crystal

Originally posted by: DWW
You aren't wrong for being upset.

Yes he ended the relationship. He said he has no problems with her moving on with life.

That said, he has a problem with his "best" friend with her. Where I come from we don't pass our girls around. It is just common courtesy for him not to touch her.

I'd end the friendship. Done it before.

What kind of bullshit is this. Did you see your gf/wife (if you ever have one) as an object or something. Their have their own lives and how they chose to live are up to them, this is especially true since he chose not to include her in his life.

Please re-read my post. Re-read it ten times.

HE HAS NO PROBLEMS WITH HER MOVING ON AND NEITHER WOULD ANY OTHER REASONABLE PERSON.

What the fvck are you talking about. Jesus.

This thread is centered around his asshole friend PERIOD.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: DWW

So he's ready to give up anything for her, while you weren't willing to. Which one of you is in love here?

Do you really think people think like that? To most guys it is called a "booty call". They don't have anything in their mind and they are just using their animal instinct.

You really don't think his best friend sat and tossed and turned all night thinking "oh gee whiz I'm so sad boohoo I'm going to hurt my friendship with whiteboy" ?

He probably thinks "aww yeah I conned him into leaving her, now I get to hit that!"

An you think that the OP is a saint here? He let something completely unimportant and, quite frankly, stupid (300 miles) become a good reason for him to break up a relationship with a person he supposedly loved. The OP is certainly no more "in love" than his friend, and I think that is' very possible that the OP is less.

You're right about "most guys", but the simple fact of the matter is that "most guys" are jackarses.

ZV

Long distance relationships seldom, if ever work for any length of time. 300 miles is a long way away for movies and dinners and hanging out. Young ppl hardly ever deal with it well. It was a mature attitude in whiteboy81 that kept him from dragging this girl all the way out there on a chance that it would work out, and also to know that the distance would be harmful to their relationship.

and we are not talking about moving to go to school where he could have just picked a different school. And we are not talking about moving for a job, when he could have turned it down. We are talking about him moving to be with his child!! Good Lord, that is so respectable and honorable and ...well, wonderful. And I think that anyone who would behave in that manner, wanting to be a good parent and doing what he felt was right in the relationship deserved to be treated better by the 'girl' and the 'friend'.

And as far as 'most guys'.. well, what about her? She is dispicable! Totally disgusting.

!!!

Who said that either of them had to move in order to keep the relationship going? I'm not saying that he should have moved away from his daughter, I agree that staying with his daughter was honourable, but he had absolutely zero reason to break up with the girlfriend. The relationship had already begun and progressed at that distance. If they were really in love, the relationship would have continued to grow to a point where his girlfriend could move to be with him and not have him be uncomfortable.

I have said nothing about the girl. The simple fact is that I agree with you about her. Even neglecting the extra-marital arguments, she should have known better. But that's not the item up for discussion. I still maintain that the OP has no standing to be upset with his friend. He should be upset with the girl and with himself.

ZV

 

[crt1530]

Sonnet 116 by Shakespeare is a testament to love's power to overcome all obstacles. The point I was trying to make was that if you really posessed an undying love for this woman, you would have found a way to make it work. There was some part in your subconscious that told you otherwise.

That said, I think you have a right to be upset. I agree that this is an awful situation to be in. Your ex-girlfriend and friend's actions show a lack of consideration for your feelings. I also think that you need to consider whether or not this is something you should dwell on. Since you are moving, maybe it would be easiest to drop both of the friendships since they are obviously not as strong as you originally thought.

 

[DWW]

I'm beginning to wonder how many people here have messed with a friend's ex :disgust:

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
How to you presume to know whether or not he loved her?

Logic. Being able to use my head for something other than a hatrack.

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
and is there not more to a successful relationship then just love?

No. Love is the base from which everything else comes. Without love, there is nothing in a relationship that can grow. With love, there is no way to prevent a relationship if that love is mutual.

Originally posted by: KarenMarieAnd whether the friend loves the girl or not, he is still wrong, as is she for even sniffing around each other. There is such a thing as honor and it is unfortunate that neither of these two have any understanding of it.

Sorry, a break-up is a break-up is a break-up. Doesn't matter why it happened or even what machiavellian methods were employed. The facts of the matter run thus:

Guy A, of his own free will, breaks up with his girlfriend after guy B agrees that he should.

The girl is now single.

Guy B begins dating the single girl whom guy A had broken up with of his own free will.

He wasn't brainwashed or hypnotized or tricked. He broke up with her. End of story.

ZV

 

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Who said that either of them had to move in order to keep the relationship going? I'm not saying that he should have moved away from his daughter, I agree that staying with his daughter was honourable, but he had absolutely zero reason to break up with the girlfriend. The relationship had already begun and progressed at that distance. If they were really in love, the relationship would have continued to grow to a point where his girlfriend could move to be with him and not have him be uncomfortable.

I have said nothing about the girl. The simple fact is that I agree with you about her. Even neglecting the extra-marital arguments, she should have known better. But that's not the item up for discussion. I still maintain that the OP has no standing to be upset with his friend. He should be upset with the girl and with himself.

ZV[/quote]

I think the friend is just as disgusting. He knew the OP had feelings for her. And he knew that the OP still cared for her when he left to be a parent to his daughter.

I might be missing something somewhere, and forgive me if I am, but I do not see where the OP had thisw relationship progressing from a distance. I got from his posts that they were together, and he had to make a choice. He chose to move 300 miles away to be noble and parent his child, thus sacrificing the relationship with the girl he cared for. He was urged to do so by the friend (or at the very least the friend told him it was a good idea). Then the friend went sniffing around the ex and the ex spread for the friend. They are disgusting.

That is very dishonorable, disrespectful and flat out wrong. I dont know how long the OP was with the girl so I cannot opine on the practicality of her moving with him. I will offer that the child rightly comes first and that is no reflection on the OP's feelings for the girl.

but, if I may offer this up... It should not matter if the OP loved her, or if the friend loves her now. He was suppoed to be the OP's best friend and is now sleeping with the ex. That is wrong and should have never happened. He did not love her at first site, and if he had any self respect or loyalty in his life he would have never allowed anything to get to the point where he would treat the OP (best friends for 10yrs) like that.

that is my opinion...



EDIT:


Quote

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Originally posted by: KarenMarie
and is there not more to a successful relationship then just love?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No. Love is the base from which everything else comes. Without love, there is nothing in a relationship that can grow. With love, there is no way to prevent a relationship if that love is mutual.

Well, the divorce courts are FULL of ppl who were in love. It takes so much more then love to make a marriage work. And you can respect and care about someone and have a wonderful relationship without being in love. Likewise, you can love some one that you do not respect. It takes more then love.

 

[veggiefrog]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Who said that either of them had to move in order to keep the relationship going? I'm not saying that he should have moved away from his daughter, I agree that staying with his daughter was honourable, but he had absolutely zero reason to break up with the girlfriend. The relationship had already begun and progressed at that distance. If they were really in love, the relationship would have continued to grow to a point where his girlfriend could move to be with him and not have him be uncomfortable.

I have said nothing about the girl. The simple fact is that I agree with you about her. Even neglecting the extra-marital arguments, she should have known better. But that's not the item up for discussion. I still maintain that the OP has no standing to be upset with his friend. He should be upset with the girl and with himself.

ZV

perhaps he didnt think that their relationship would work as LDR -- they might not have had enuf time for each other, she could have started to feel tied down and trapped, they could have grown apart, she could have become resentful -- there's a ton of reasons y he might have felt that breaking up now was better than putting them in the position of struggling w the distance and breaking up badly some time later.

regardless, it doesnt matter how long they dated, how much he cared for her, what she felt for him, whatever -- the simple fact of the matter is the friend is an complete and total asshat (and more) for moving in on a best friend's ex. it's a no-go area unless he was kewl w/ it. any friend who doesnt care about how he would feel is no friend at all.

 

[DWW]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
How to you presume to know whether or not he loved her?

Logic. Being able to use my head for something other than a hatrack.

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
and is there not more to a successful relationship then just love?

No. Love is the base from which everything else comes. Without love, there is nothing in a relationship that can grow. With love, there is no way to prevent a relationship if that love is mutual.

Originally posted by: KarenMarieAnd whether the friend loves the girl or not, he is still wrong, as is she for even sniffing around each other. There is such a thing as honor and it is unfortunate that neither of these two have any understanding of it.

Sorry, a break-up is a break-up is a break-up. Doesn't matter why it happened or even what machiavellian methods were employed. The facts of the matter run thus:

Guy A, of his own free will, breaks up with his girlfriend after guy B agrees that he should.

The girl is now single.

Guy B begins dating the single girl whom guy A had broken up with of his own free will.

He wasn't brainwashed or hypnotized or tricked. He broke up with her. End of story.

ZV

Pretend you are married to a lady you once loved and I'm your brother. Now you divorce her (reason unknown). At Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter etc I always looked at your wife and thought "thats a nice piece of ass". Then you find out, a little after your wife and you divorced, I start porking her.

You mean to tell me you wouldn't feel upset? Especially if I told you that I promised it wouldn't happen again?

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: veggiefrog

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Who said that either of them had to move in order to keep the relationship going? I'm not saying that he should have moved away from his daughter, I agree that staying with his daughter was honourable, but he had absolutely zero reason to break up with the girlfriend. The relationship had already begun and progressed at that distance. If they were really in love, the relationship would have continued to grow to a point where his girlfriend could move to be with him and not have him be uncomfortable.

I have said nothing about the girl. The simple fact is that I agree with you about her. Even neglecting the extra-marital arguments, she should have known better. But that's not the item up for discussion. I still maintain that the OP has no standing to be upset with his friend. He should be upset with the girl and with himself.

ZV

perhaps he didnt think that their relationship would work as LDR -- they might not have had enuf time for each other, she could have started to feel tied down and trapped, they could have grown apart, she could have become resentful -- there's a ton of reasons y he might have felt that breaking up now was better than putting them in the position of struggling w the distance and breaking up badly some time later.

regardless, it doesnt matter how long they dated, how much he cared for her, what she felt for him, whatever -- the simple fact of the matter is the friend is an complete and total asshat (and more) for moving in on a best friend's ex. it's a no-go area unless he was kewl w/ it. any friend who doesnt care about how he would feel is no friend at all.

Regardless of ANYTHING, she was not ethically, morally, or legally bound to whiteboy81. By shacking up with WB81's best friend, she made the same free will decision that she made when she originally hooked up with WB81. Regardless of ANYTHING ELSE, WB81 has no right whatsoever to anything about the relationship between two other people -no matter how they're related to him. Yeah, it hurts, I know. Trust me, I know. But that hurt is something that needs to be taken care of ASAP. It's not healthy and it is very VERY poorly justified.

Good luck, WB81.

 

[DWW]

In addition it could be argued that the friend never loved her and had the opportunity to avoid causing the problem.

How? Easy. Anyone will tell you that to be truly in love, you must be in a relationship with that person for some time and get to know them inside. The friend was never in a relationship with her until afterwards. He clearly couldn't have loved her and was able to avoid her from the getgo but didn't.

The only thing the friend had to go on was his feelings of her appearance and what little he knew of her through association with friend which is not enough to "love" her.

 

[Tinkerhell]

Originally posted by: whiteboy81
I recently found out that my best friend is sleeping with my ex girlfriend who I just broke up with a couple months ago. This girl meant alot to me and I was definetely in love with her and I actually am still in love with her, we broke up because I have a daughter who lives several hundred miles away and I want to be close to her and be a real father to her. Unfortunately our relationship wasn't at the point where I felt comfortable letting her move 300 miles away with me. So I ended things, but not because we weren't in love, because I had a difficult choice to make.

I then come to find out that my best friend who is typically one of the most honorable, loyal and respectful people that I have ever met, decides that he is going to sleep with her. After I first found out I was extremely upset, but I decided that I was going to try to be as cool about it as possible because I love my best friend and I love my ex as well, I didn't want to lose the friendship that I had with either of them. So, I told my best friend that as long as he promised me it wouldn't happen again, I would just forget this ever happened and forgive him. He then emails me a couple days later saying that he has feelings for her and he can't stand to not be with her, so in my mind he is choosing a relationship with her over a friendship which has lasted 10 years now with me, does that seem right to you?

I fully expected my ex to move on with her life and I don't blame her for doing so, but to do it so that it is right in my face with my best friend who has always been so close to me, it just doesn't feel right. Am I totally an a-hole for being upset about this? I just can't be a friend to him while he is nailing the girl I still love, is that wrong?

You have a right to be upset, especially because you still have feelings for her. But sometimes things happen. Now its time to decide how strong your friendship is.

 

[DWW]

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: veggiefrog

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Who said that either of them had to move in order to keep the relationship going? I'm not saying that he should have moved away from his daughter, I agree that staying with his daughter was honourable, but he had absolutely zero reason to break up with the girlfriend. The relationship had already begun and progressed at that distance. If they were really in love, the relationship would have continued to grow to a point where his girlfriend could move to be with him and not have him be uncomfortable.

I have said nothing about the girl. The simple fact is that I agree with you about her. Even neglecting the extra-marital arguments, she should have known better. But that's not the item up for discussion. I still maintain that the OP has no standing to be upset with his friend. He should be upset with the girl and with himself.

ZV

perhaps he didnt think that their relationship would work as LDR -- they might not have had enuf time for each other, she could have started to feel tied down and trapped, they could have grown apart, she could have become resentful -- there's a ton of reasons y he might have felt that breaking up now was better than putting them in the position of struggling w the distance and breaking up badly some time later.

regardless, it doesnt matter how long they dated, how much he cared for her, what she felt for him, whatever -- the simple fact of the matter is the friend is an complete and total asshat (and more) for moving in on a best friend's ex. it's a no-go area unless he was kewl w/ it. any friend who doesnt care about how he would feel is no friend at all.

Regardless of ANYTHING, she was not ethically, morally, or legally bound to whiteboy81. By shacking up with WB81's best friend, she made the same free will decision that she made when she originally hooked up with WB81. Regardless of ANYTHING ELSE, WB81 has no right whatsoever to anything about the relationship between two other people -no matter how they're related to him. Yeah, it hurts, I know. Trust me, I know. But that hurt is something that needs to be taken care of ASAP. It's not healthy and it is very VERY poorly justified.

Good luck, WB81.

Re-read the post. Now re-read it ten times. veggiefrog said "the simple fact of the matter is the friend is an complete and total asshat"

The FRIEND not the girl is what he is mad about.

 

[whiteboy81]

I understand that sometimes things happen, which is why I was willing to forgive this originally as a mistake, I love my friend too much to lose our friendship over a mistake. But his continuing to want to be with her after he saw how hurt I was is what is wrong.

 

[Azraele]

Your feelings are perfectly justified, but technically, there's nothing wrong with their relationship. It's bad manners, but they're entitled to get together if they so choose.

My suggestion is to try to talk things out with them.

 

[veggiefrog]

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
Regardless of ANYTHING, she was not ethically, morally, or legally bound to whiteboy81. By shacking up with WB81's best friend, she made the same free will decision that she made when she originally hooked up with WB81. Regardless of ANYTHING ELSE, WB81 has no right whatsoever to anything about the relationship between two other people -no matter how they're related to him. Yeah, it hurts, I know. Trust me, I know. But that hurt is something that needs to be taken care of ASAP. It's not healthy and it is very VERY poorly justified.

Good luck, WB81.

but it's not about her and her ho-ness... it's about how the friend should have said, u know what he's my best friend of 10 yrs and his friendship means a lot to me i'm not gonna be w his ex-chick (whom he's not over) w/o talkin to him first. it's what a friend is supposed to do. the friend should have had enuf respect and consideration to at least make sure the OP was kewl w/ it.

if the story had been about his ex who was sleepin w some random guy and how he was upset about it, then yeah 'waah waah stfu'. but it wasnt.


(maybe it's just me, but i would NEVER date a friend's ex w/o talkin to her first bc i love my friends and dont want to hurt them, i care about my friendships. )