Amanda Knox guilty.....again.

[recoil80]

Who cares, she's not going anywhere. Italy's justice system is very weird. A friend of the family was vacationing in Italy years ago when her dog was arrested after it caught a fish and crab on the beach. The dog was put on trial, found guilty and fined. Ridiculous.

I find it hard to believe.
Your friend was put on trial, not the dog, and I don't think it was just because the dog caught a fish, something more had to be happened...
Our justice system is a mess and is very weird, but we are not a third world country...

 

[recoil80]

I have no idea if she's guilty. I'm just saying be smart... if you don't wanna get extradited, go to a country without extradition. You bet your ass I would, fuck being declared innocent I want to be free.

she is, at least, guilty of slander and there are no doubt about that
Of course she won't be extradited for that, since she already spent time in jail in Italy so for our justice system she already paid for that crime.

I don't know if she is a murderer, but accusing an innocent man was a very mean action so she deserved the time she spent in jail in the past. Anyway I think there are no really strong evidence against her, so I don't agree with today's sentence.

 

[Genx87]

I find it hard to believe.
Your friend was put on trial, not the dog, and I don't think it was just because the dog caught a fish, something more had to be happened...
Our justice system is a mess and is very weird, but we are not a third world country...

Didnt your justice system convict a scientist for not predicting an earthquake recently?

 

[PokerGuy]

Didnt your justice system convict a scientist for not predicting an earthquake recently?

hahahahahahahahahah Check and mate. I'm not sure how much more ridiculous you can get than that.

The US should tell Italy to f off with their idiocy, but we'll see if bummer does the right thing or not. Of course Knox will have to be careful where she travels going forward, she's going to have to avoid a lot of countries. Lucky for her, the US is big and has a huge range of things you can experience and do.

 

[Geosurface]

she is, at least, guilty of slander and there are no doubt about that

...

accusing an innocent man was a very mean action so she deserved the time she spent in jail in the past.

I don't know... I find it pretty hard to agree. What she describes is a room full of police officials yelling at and breaking down a 20 year old girl with a tenuous grasp of Italian, for hours and hours without letting up, and that the police looked at her phone, saw that she'd texted her boss that night, and THEY came up with this notion that her boss surely must be involved. They fed her that idea, they broke her down, they completely abused someone who they never had any reason to suspect in the first place, and they fed her the idea that she must have been there, and so must her boss.

Did she at some point run with it a bit and give them what they wanted to hear? Sure. But if you look into false confessions as a phenomena, there are plenty of former investigators etc who have said "I could basically get someone like that (and most people in general) to say anything I wanted them to say, just give me a couple of hours with them."

Here's a fascinating link to a PBS program called "The Confessions" which deals with how this happens. Four military men back in 1997 ended up all confessing to a gang-rape/murder of this woman - and not a single one of them had anything to do with it. A fifth man whom none of them knew had actually done it, and done it alone.

"Three of the four men were sentenced to one or more life sentences in prison without the possibility of parole ...

A fifth man, Omar Ballard, was also convicted in the crime ... He is the only man whose DNA matches that found at the scene, and his confession states that he committed the crime by himself, with none of the other men involved. Forensic evidence is consistent with his story that there were no other participants"

Sound familiar?

The police were desperate to solve it and they latched onto someone innocent but whom they brow beat until he was so desperate for them to stop, he confessed. Problem was, his DNA didn't match that which was found at the scene. So they went back to him and pressured him and pressured him again, until he coughed up some random other Sailor's name he was vaguely acquainted with. Then they dragged that sailor in and brow beat him too until he confessed. Again, his DNA didn't match. So they got HIM to spit out another name, rinse and repeat. Until they had 4 innocent men who'd all confessed, and who were later found guilty. Pretty sick eh?

Now allow yourself to consider how many times that sort of thing happened before DNA testing, and where the wrongly convicted spent the rest of their days in jail for crimes they didn't commit. Pretty sobering thought.

It would be REALLY worth your time to watch that video and I strongly encourage everyone else here to do so too. It's fascinating and enlightening. They have an investigator demonstrate how it can be done, etc.

This is why I find it hard to agree that Knox is guilty of slander, and why I also find it hard to contemplate that three out of the Norfolk Four were guilty of slander too. I don't think you can really hold people - especially young, naive people who the police break down mentally - accountable for what they say in a situation like that.

 

[Dari]

I find it hard to believe.
Your friend was put on trial, not the dog, and I don't think it was just because the dog caught a fish, something more had to be happened...
Our justice system is a mess and is very weird, but we are not a third world country...

You are right. It was France, not Italy where the dog was put on trial.i think the practice goes back to the black plague when rats were put on trial for causing said plague. Iirc, Italy has similar laws.

 

[Newell Steamer]

I am thinking of starting a news network, dedicated to white pretty women. I'll call it, WPWNN - White Pretty Women News Network; 24/7 coverage of white pretty women news.

 

[Doppel]

I am thinking of starting a news network, dedicated to white pretty women. I'll call it, WPWNN - White Pretty Women News Network; 24/7 coverage of white pretty women news.

I would watch.

The plain truth is she is far too hot to spend time in prison for just one murder even if she is guilty.

 

[Tango]

Didnt your justice system convict a scientist for not predicting an earthquake recently?

Actually, they did not. That's just how the foreign media sloppily reported it.

 

[TreVader]

But she's a US citizen currently in the US. While there is an extradition treaty with Italy the US is under no obligation to hold to the treaty if it deprives a citizen of a right. Double jeopardy is a right in the US and it is likely that the country will not send her away to have her rights violated. Similarly, the US would not extradite a citizen to a foreign country to face punishment by stoning, since such punishment would be cruel and unusual.

This is not unheard of, other countries will often refuse to extradite to the US if the death penalty is involved.

It's not a right though. There is no right thats says "a US citizen will not be extradited if US laws are not followed". I'm not sure why this is confusing. She will probably be extradited, however it's possible public uproar will stop that. It won't be because of double jeopardy tho

 

[TreVader]

I think her own sexuality was so co-opted by the tabloids and so completely toxified for her, that she has really sort of shut it down. That's just another layer of the tragedy. The lascivious, trashy media of Italy and the UK, and worst of all the prosecutor, concocted this whole narrative centering around her sexuality. They painted her as a sexual sadist and killer, a sex-crazed nympho, a seductress, you name it. They created an alternate version of her for their own narrative, and I think she has struggled greatly with this feeling that their fictional version of her was pushing the real her aside.

(btw, that headline? incorrect.)

I strongly suspect, whether she's aware of it or not, that she is trying to distance herself from her own sexuality. I actually don't mind the haircut personally, but I think it's a deliberate measure to de-feminize herself, and sap that angle of its lifeblood so they can't pursue it as effectively. Toward this goal it also helps that she is basically a shell of a person now, and that it shows in her face and mannerisms. Just got done watching her interview from a few days ago. She's permanently traumatized by this whole thing, and how powerless it made her feel and still makes her feel. I think one of the few things she can control is trying to take away the sexy angle from them, and the haircut is part of that. I think actually this is fairly common for rape victims to do, too.

Just my thoughts.

I think you're totally wrong here, her sexuality saved her ass. If she wasn't hot nobody would give a shit if she hanged. I would say it's actually the opposite, it's unfair she is treated as well as she is just because of her appearance. If an average or worse, ugly girl was accused of this crime she'd probably be in prison and that would be that.

 

[Genx87]

Actually, they did not. That's just how the foreign media sloppily reported it.

If you have an english version of this story that paints a different picture to why they were convicted. I will be glad to read it.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/22/us-italy-earthquake-court-idUSBRE89L13V20121022

 

[Genx87]

It's not a right though. There is no right thats says "a US citizen will not be extradited if US laws are not followed". I'm not sure why this is confusing. She will probably be extradited, however it's possible public uproar will stop that. It won't be because of double jeopardy tho

Yes it will. We dont recognize double jeopardy and thus will deny thier request.

 

[TreVader]

The plain truth is she is far too hot to spend time in prison for just one murder even if she is guilty.

This is the sentiment of the vast majority of people. I think this, and nothing else, will be the real reason she'll be kept in the US and not extradited, but I do think it's possible she will be extradited.


The italian legal system could use some work, but lets be real here it's not like the US justice system is perfect. Anybody remember OJ?


I tried to make tails or heads of the whole case and did a lot of research and the best thing i could come up with is I think it's unlikely she personally murdered anybody, but she could've done a better job making friends in italy. Also, cut the yoga at the PD after a murder. Who raised this girl?

 

[TreVader]

Yes it will. We dont recognize double jeopardy and thus will deny thier request.

That will be unilaterally breaking the extradition treaty we have with italy. The treaty says NOTHING about double jeopardy.

 

[Genx87]

This is the sentiment of the vast majority of people. I think this, and nothing else, will be the real reason she'll be kept in the US and not extradited, but I do think it's possible she will be extradited.


The italian legal system could use some work, but lets be real here it's not like the US justice system is perfect. Anybody remember OJ?


I tried to make tails or heads of the whole case and did a lot of research and the best thing i could come up with is I think it's unlikely she personally murdered anybody, but she could've done a better job making friends in italy. Also, cut the yoga at the PD after a murder. Who raised this girl?

Our system is far from perfect. But we dont let the state keep bringing charges against somebody until it finally sticks if they are acquitted.

 

[Geosurface]

I think you're totally wrong here, her sexuality saved her ass. If she wasn't hot nobody would give a shit if she hanged. I would say it's actually the opposite, it's unfair she is treated as well as she is just because of her appearance. If an average or worse, ugly girl was accused of this crime she'd probably be in prison and that would be that.

No conflict.

There can be quarters who are attacking her more viciously because she's an attractive young woman and others which are more sympathetic toward her for the same reason. These two impulses can even co-exist within a single individual simultaneously - people are weird about sex, especially when shame and guilt and crap about satan worship and murder get sprinkled into the narrative.

Think dirty priest/principal physically punishing student and reprimanding them verbally while actually totally getting off on it.

Sometimes people can even experience greater hatred for someone they're infatuated with because they can't have them and they resent their power over them via the desire they evoke for that person.

We have religion to thank for a lot of this, but it's also just part of our species.

 

[Genx87]

That will be unilaterally breaking the extradition treaty we have with italy. The treaty says NOTHING about double jeopardy.

It wont break anything unless Italy decides they want to do such a thing. And they wont because it will hurt them in the future. The host country has a right to determine if one of their citizens, or one of Italy's citizens should be extradited. In doing so we weigh the case and how it applies to our justice system. In this case the fact she was acquitted and then retried will have us tell Italy sorry, you arent getting one of our citizens as we dont recognize the ability of the state to retry our citizens after acquittal.

 

[Geosurface]

I think this, and nothing else, will be the real reason she'll be kept in the US and not extradited

Well that and her obvious innocence.

Personally I think we should tell Italy to fuck off and send us Sollecito or we Drone the Pope.

 

[Tango]

If you have an english version of this story that paints a different picture to why they were convicted. I will be glad to read it.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/22/us-italy-earthquake-court-idUSBRE89L13V20121022

I have one at home and I'll post it later.

They were not found guilty of failing to predict a earthquake. They were in a sense found guilty of trying to predict one.

Being part of a committee on public safety, they were in charge of assessing risks for the population in the area recently hit by an earthquake. In that capacity they went on record saying that people should stay put because the risk of another one was negligible. And at least one of them did it in a quite sarcastic way. Many people based their decision not to leave on that, and died or were injured when the second one struck.

They should have said they had no idea, because nobody can. It's their role (not as earth scientists but as members of that committee) to give inputs to the general population about the risks during a crisis, based on their knowledge. They gave people the illusion of safety whereas they should have said there was no way to assess that risk in one way or the other.

 

[Tango]

That will be unilaterally breaking the extradition treaty we have with italy. The treaty says NOTHING about double jeopardy.

Somebody in her defense team stated that double jeopardy does not apply in this case.

In any case, this is not the final verdict. There is a third (and final) stage of judgement. And it is unclear whether or not the prosecution would even pursue extradition if they are found guilty.

 

[Texashiker]

FYI, it's very likely Knox will be extradited to Italy eventually.

I hope not.

 

[zinfamous]

Her italian boyfriend is an idiot for getting convicted, released, and then staying around while they re-tried him for the 3rd time. He should've made a B-line to the nearest country with no extradition treaty with Italy.

Where, exactly, would he have gone? He could easily go to any EU country, but of course any of them would extradite him if Italy requested it.

The USA? On what Visa would he be allowed in, and to stay for x amount of time?

 

[Texashiker]

The USA? On what Visa would he be allowed in, and to stay for x amount of time?

Fly to mexico and walk across the border.

If an estimated 20 million people can do it, why not him?

 

[TreVader]

Well that and her obvious innocence.

Personally I think we should tell Italy to fuck off and send us Sollecito or we Drone the Pope.

I'm not so convinced of her innocence. They found a footprint of her shoe size in the blood at the crime scene, and they found her blood mixed in with the victims on something (I forgot what). She also lied many many times about many things. Its hard to say one way or the other, but I will say her innocence is not "obvious".

I will say that Sollecito is an idiot. Who sticks around in a country where they are currently re-trying you for a crime they convicted you of (wrongfully or otherwise) and put you in prison for 4 years?