Amazon's Work Environment

[palswim]

I'm sure some of you have seen the NY Times's review of Amazon's work and management culture.

There are many anecdotes in there following a similar pattern: I sacrificed everything for this job, and then when I realized I had other priorities, the company suggested that I wasn't a good fit!

Motherhood can also be a liability. Michelle Williamson, a 41-year-old parent of three who helped build Amazon’s restaurant supply business, said her boss, Shahrul Ladue, had told her that raising children would most likely prevent her from success at a higher level because of the long hours required. Mr. Ladue, who confirmed her account, said that Ms. Williamson had been directly competing with younger colleagues with fewer commitments, so he suggested she find a less demanding job at Amazon.

But, why does this surprise anyone? If you want to have other priorities than work, Amazon is probably not the place for you. I have no problems admitting that Amazon is not the place for me.

 

[mzkhadir]

Its probably not what someone wants to hear. But sometimes politics play a role in how you climb the ladder.

 

[deadlyapp]

I think it's more the thought that in order to be successful you have to spend a ridiculous number of hours working. I've seen quite a number of other commentary that echoes this sentiment.

I have no problem putting in extra effort or working slightly longer hours, but there is a point where I'm willing to sacrifice upward mobility and money for better work life balance. I think we're on the downswing of this longer hours = more productivity/more upward progression and starting to come back to a good work life balance. But I also think we're starting to see more employers try to foster an environment where you don't actually need to leave - look at the big ones like google, facebook, etc where they've created something you don't actually need to leave or necessarily want to leave.

 

[Sonikku]

Argue for healthier work conditions and you'll get replaced by a robot.

 

[palswim]

I think it's more the thought that in order to be successful you have to spend a ridiculous number of hours working.

If Amazon believes that, then so be it. I'm oversimplifying, but they will only change when people decide to not work there and it hits them in the wallet.

But, people who put up with the culture just further it. In that article, the couple had already shown a willingness to leave friends and family behind, so why not ditch Seattle if Amazon was so bad? They stayed for six years!

 

[Murloc]

this rat race/descent to slavery is why maximum hours laws exist in most countries in the first place.
People willing to participate in this can always be found unless there are rules not allowing them to overwork themselves. which doesn't increase productivity enough to be worth it, and health expenses fall on everybody through higher insurance premiums.

 

[maddogchen]

article that finds that Tech Workers are generally less happy, not just at Amazon.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...-than-most-workers-tinypulse-survey/32011313/

 

[Sonikku]

If Amazon believes that, then so be it. I'm oversimplifying, but they will only change when people decide to not work there and it hits them in the wallet.

But, people who put up with the culture just further it. In that article, the couple had already shown a willingness to leave friends and family behind, so why not ditch Seattle if Amazon was so bad? They stayed for six years!

True to form, his team shrunk and shrunk while his work load increased and increased. No wonder so many are unemployed. No wonder an increasing number of those that are employed are overworked.

 

[Kaido]

There are many anecdotes in there following a similar pattern: I sacrificed everything for this job, and then when I realized I had other priorities, the company suggested that I wasn't a good fit!

You know, I have mixed feelings on this. On one hand, some of the stuff I've read is borderline criminal & just inhumane. But company loyalty doesn't really exist anymore, and that includes on the company side of things, not just for the employees. And really, anyone who is shocked by this stuff has never worked in retail or food service. Sure, if you land yourself a cushy job doing knowledge work or in management, you can avoid a lot of this stuff because they generally treat you better, but if you're in wage jobs, construction, competitive stuff like Amazon or in Silicon Valley...good luck! It can be tough out there.

 

[SunnyD]

It's a rare company that makes its employees happy. Why? Because it's a rare company that goes out of its way to understand its employees rather than its shareholders or even its customers, for obvious reasons.

I've interviewed with Amazon ... god I've lost count now; at least half a dozen times over the course of the years. They keep calling. 10 years ago I jumped at the chance to interview with them, a job there would have made my resume and I wouldn't really care about anything else. Now? I know people that work there, how their development teams work, how their org chart is set up, how the company is (micro)managed... and nope, it doesn't fit me.

Lately I've turned down interviews with Amazon unless the product was something that really interested me or the interview was local or not too out of my way (they reimburse travel expenses, so it makes for a nice weekend trip for myself and my wife usually) simply because they don't have the kind of environment that is friendly to anyone other than a 20-30something single person code monkey that has no life and wants to spend 12-14 hours under the watchful stare of management so as not to stray from the path. That's not what I do. Oh, and their salary offerings aren't really any better than anybody else either.

 

[kranky]

Companies like that do attract a type of person who sees the job as not just an income source, but a lifestyle choice. I read about them all the time in Fast Company. They don't lust after 80-hour weeks, but put up with it to be able to say they are a Senior Team Leader in New Technology Applications or something like that and that their company feeds them, gives free beer on Fridays, plies them with gadgets and lets them play with fantastic new technology.

"My presentation to the Senior Executive team ran long because they were really interested in our work so I had to reschedule my flight to the conference from my cab while Skyping with our Taiwan group about the shipment of our next prototypes."
"Oh, what kind of technology?
Sorry, I can't talk about it, I'm under a non-disclosure agreement. <- and they like being able to say that also.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Companies like that do attract a type of person who sees the job as not just an income source, but a lifestyle choice. I read about them all the time in Fast Company. They don't lust after 80-hour weeks, but put up with it to be able to say they are a Senior Team Leader in New Technology Applications or something like that and that their company feeds them, gives free beer on Fridays, plies them with gadgets and lets them play with fantastic new technology.

"My presentation to the Senior Executive team ran long because they were really interested in our work so I had to reschedule my flight to the conference from my cab while Skyping with our Taiwan group about the shipment of our next prototypes."
"Oh, what kind of technology?
Sorry, I can't talk about it, I'm under a non-disclosure agreement. <- and they like being able to say that also.

Exactly.

I'll never understand people who basically give up their lives for companies who will cut them loose without a second thought. I was that way for a few years when I was single and then I woke up and realized I was wasting the best years of my life.

 

[mmntech]

The Amazon that the Times describes in the article sounds like most large corporations today. Every man for themselves, fear based management tactics, and executives who have lost control. Of course since the recession, big companies have been downsizing forcing the same amount of work onto fewer people. So that's making working environments all the worse.

The way I see it, there's only two types of corporate employer today...

Amazon, who pushes their employees' productivity to its limits and beyond. They hire the best and demand more than the best out of them. A high pressure, long hours, no nonsense environment that's essentially a stress factory where workers are expected to be on call 24/7. Sometimes the pay is good, and they might still offer benefits. However, companies like this tend to have a high turnover rate because people just burn out.

Reynholm Industries, where you're shoved in the basement and forgotten about. Depending on your outlook on life, this is probably the lesser of two evils. Still the pay is low and nobody really acknowledges the hard work you do. When the layoffs come, you're looked at no better than the guy watching cat videos all day. It's still a soul sucking experience. Just in a different way.

Now that we're descending into another recession (did we even get over the last one?), it's only going to get worse from here. A lot of places have been bleeding off staff again and employment is a fiercely competitive buyer's market. Nobody's investing and everyone's running scared.

Honestly, working for the man is for schmucks. Owning your own business is a lot of long hours and hard work, but it's work that makes money for you and not someone else.

 

[Jeff7]

The Amazon that the Times describes in the article sounds like most large corporations today. Every man for themselves, fear based management tactics, and executives who have lost control. Of course since the recession, big companies have been downsizing forcing the same amount of work onto fewer people. So that's making working environments all the worse.

The way I see it, there's only two types of corporate employer today...

Amazon, who pushes their employees' productivity to its limits and beyond. They hire the best and demand more than the best out of them. A high pressure, long hours, no nonsense environment that's essentially a stress factory where workers are expected to be on call 24/7. Sometimes the pay is good, and they might still offer benefits. However, companies like this tend to have a high turnover rate because people just burn out.

Reynholm Industries, where you're shoved in the basement and forgotten about. Depending on your outlook on life, this is probably the lesser of two evils. Still the pay is low and nobody really acknowledges the hard work you do. When the layoffs come, you're looked at no better than the guy watching cat videos all day. It's still a soul sucking experience. Just in a different way.

Now that we're descending into another recession (did we even get over the last one?), it's only going to get worse from here. A lot of places have been bleeding off staff again and employment is a fiercely competitive buyer's market. Nobody's investing and everyone's running scared.

Honestly, working for the man is for schmucks. Owning your own business is a lot of long hours and hard work, but it's work that makes money for you and not someone else.

Where I work, business did pick back up.
We also diversified into other markets - a substantial portion of our business was selling hardware to banks. That effectively vanished.

But despite things picking up, a lot of the recession-era habits and behaviors haven't really gone away. There's still a lot of uncertainty and worry that the good times will end in an instant.

 

[mmntech]

Where I work, business did pick back up.
We also diversified into other markets - a substantial portion of our business was selling hardware to banks. That effectively vanished.

But despite things picking up, a lot of the recession-era habits and behaviors haven't really gone away. There's still a lot of uncertainty and worry that the good times will end in an instant.

Certain industries have fallen into recession. I'm in media and the industry basically collapsed late last year. A lot of fear and uncertainty, and they've been bleeding jobs like crazy. Hard to find steady work these days. Most jobs have hundreds of people applying for them.

Same is true in oil and gas, which has been driving Canada's economy for a good while now. The downturn there is having a huge ripple effect. If Q3 of this year has negative GDP growth, we're officially in a recession.