Discussion AMD’s Custom APU Discussion Thread

[Tigerick]

As Steam Deck’s APU is being segmented into Semi Custom category, I have decided to create a thread specially to discuss about current and upcoming custom APU from AMD. Below is the comparison chart for all sub-$300 gaming consoles using custom APU



As listed, AMD APU has been pretty successfully at catering sub-$300 gaming console market. Below is my take on upcoming gaming consoles:



PS5 Slim

• Unlike past transition from PS4 to PS4 Slim which came with die shrinking form 28nm to 16nm and using much lesser power, the PS5 Slim would be using 6nm designed APU similar to Xbox Series S Refresh
• Of course Sony will custom some features just like PS5

Xbox Series S Refresh

• Current Series S APU is made on TSMC N7 process with 197 mm2 die size and 8 billion transistors. With one additional layer on EUV mask, we can expect smaller die and more APU per wafer from AMD
• The current Series S might get price cut to US$199?
• If Microsoft continue selling the current Series S @ $199, we can expect more features for upcoming Series S: likely with more CU and higher clock speed?
• Microsoft wants to sell as many Xbox as possible cause the success of Xbox Game Pass depends on it.

Mac Mini

• Mac Mini might not exactly apple to apple comparison here but we can actually learn about the power of N5 process here: with doubling transistors and much smaller die size, M1 is really leading in process technology
• Apple is really profit oriented company. You can buy 2 units of Xbox/PS5 Slim units with money left
• That’s why Apple is reluctant to enter the gaming console market
• But Apple actually has another lineup that can really compete with sub-$300 market indirectly. That’s is iPad lineup and it is matter of time before Apple putting M1 into base iPad with 64GB storage @ $329 (with 256GB the price bump to $479 provided Apple maintain the ASP)

 

[dark zero]

Interesting thread, but let's see each current point:
1. Steam Deck 2 it might be a real fact. But expect it to happen in at least 2 years more. Steam Deck 1 is still getting customers.
2. Steam Console... sorry, I can see a special dock for SD2 to make it useful as a console.
3. PS5 Slim is interesting. I can see only do a node shrink for it from 7 nm to 6 nm.
4. Similar thing with XBox.
5. No way it happens with Mac.

 

[NTMBK]

Your table is a bit odd. The Steam Console doesn't exist, the Mac Mini isn't a games console, and I don't see why you included a PS5 shrink but not an XBox Series X shrink.

One thing that I wish we had seen was an XBox One handheld. You could replace the 256-bit DDR3-2133 with a 128-bit LPDDR4X-4266 interface, and otherwise just do a straight shrink to 6nm. Getting the whole XBox One game catalogue on a Steam Deck (or Switch!) sized console would be awesome, and it would double up as a great device for streaming games from XCloud.

 

[uzzi38]

Steam Deck 2

• Most of the info is from MLID; the new APU is codenamed Little Phoenix which is derived from upcoming Phoenix Point from AMD with lesser CPU and GPU cores
• With Zen4 and RDNA3 features, the upcoming Steam Deck 2 might be getting double performance than current one
• The only issue is stock availability, AMD has just started moving the whole desktop, laptop and server CPU not to mention RDNA3 GPU to TSMC N5/N4 process, so don’t expect Steam Deck 2 ready before end of 2023

The only thing not [redacted] about everything MLID said in this video is that PHX2 exists. And that's been known for a long, long, looooooooooooooooooooong time now.

I'm not denying that there will be a Steam Deck 2, but I can tell you for certain it will not be using PHX2, nor are the specs that MLID listed for PHX2 correct either.


Profanity is not allowed in the tech forums.

AT Mod Usandthem

 

[LightningZ71]

I personally believe that Valve will stay far, FAR away from any purpose built console in the future. At the very best, we might get a new update for a semi usable SteamOS for desktops. There will be a decent number of ultra small form factor desktops that ship with Rembrandt APUs next year that will make for excellent substitutes.

 

[Tigerick]

PS5 Refresh: Oberon Plus

6nm EUV Shrink

www.angstronomics.com

PS5's APU has been updated to 6nm EUV version, reducing die size from ~300mm2 to 260mm2. Now it is Xbox turn...

 

[Rannar]

6nm is nice for making full fat versions slightly smaller and cheaper to produce but you won't see PS5 and XSX slim before 5nm die shrinks. maybe end of 2023 if we are lucky.
kind of same with steam deck 2. will get probably when production of 5nm node is plentiful and not fully booked with higher margin/volume chips (server, DIY, GPU, consoles)

 

[soresu]

PS5 Refresh: Oberon Plus

6nm EUV Shrink

www.angstronomics.com

PS5's APU has been updated to 6nm EUV version, reducing die size from ~300mm2 to 260mm2. Now it is Xbox turn...

Sadly I doubt this or any of the parts reductions in recent PS5 revisions will result in price reductions for the console 😢

 

[uzzi38]

PS5 Refresh: Oberon Plus

6nm EUV Shrink

www.angstronomics.com

PS5's APU has been updated to 6nm EUV version, reducing die size from ~300mm2 to 260mm2. Now it is Xbox turn...

Not for a while still.

 

[eek2121]

The only accurate things here would be the PS5 die shrink abs the Steam Deck. While the Steam Deck 2 was somewhat confirmed, there are no specs for it yet because Valve hasn’t even begun the design process.

Apple TV is Apple’s console, not the Mac Mini.

 

[jpiniero]

Valve just announced a new Steam Deck OLED. Same processor (Zen 2 still) but it's been shrunk to N6 and has faster memory. They also increased the battery size too.

 

[eek2121]

So uh, anyone want to buy my OG Steam Deck? 🤣

I kid…OLED would be a nice upgrade, however…

 

[Saylick]

The improvements are pretty nice, not going to lie, and the price is basically the same as launch prices but you simply get more. Overall, if I were in the market for a Steam Deck, I'd be pretty pleased:

Valve reveals the Steam Deck OLED: $549 buys better screen, battery, and more

And a new fan and a new heatsink and...

www.theverge.com

What’s new with the Steam Deck OLED vs. the Steam Deck LCD?​

• 7.4-inch 90Hz OLED custom Samsung screen (versus seven-inch 60Hz IPS LCD)
• Displays 110 percent DCI-P3 color gamut (up from estimated 67 percent sRGB)
• 1,000-nit HDR peak brightness, 600-nit SDR peak brightness (up from 400 nits)
• 50 watt-hour battery (up from 40Wh)
• More efficient die-shrink 6nm AMD “Sephiroth” APU (versus 7nm “Aerith”)
• 6400MT/s memory (up from 5500MT/s)
• 29 grams lighter, depending on configuration
• Larger, quieter fan
• Larger heatsink
• Louder speakers “with improved bass”
• 1mm taller thumbsticks with wider head and recessed, smoother thumb divot
• Darker printing on buttons
• “Higher fidelity haptics”
• “Redesigned trackpad for improved fidelity and edge detection”
• Higher touchscreen polling rate of 180Hz
• Wi-Fi 6E for “2-3x faster downloads” with new 6GHz connectivity
• Bluetooth 5.3 with dedicated antenna, AptX HD and AptX Low Latency, wake via Bluetooth controller
• “Onboard mic can now be used simultaneously as headphone jack”
• Longer 2.5m power cable (up from 1.5m)
• Faster 0.8C charging rate, “20%–80% in as little as 45 minutes”
• Three to 12 hours quoted battery life (up from two to eight hours)
• Multi-color indicator LED (versus white only)
• Torx screws instead of Phillips
• Machine screws on rear cover with metal bosses for easier repair
• “Bumper switch is now on joystick board for easier repair, improved bumper shock reliability”
• “Fewer steps required for common repairs”
• “Replacing the display does not require taking the back off”
• 512GB for $549, 1TB for $649 (versus 256GB for $529, 512GB for $649)
• New carrying case with 1TB model that has a second smaller shell inside
• New limited-edition transparent $679 model in the US and Canada

What’s the same with the Steam Deck OLED?​

• Same processor specs
• Same basic performance, with no turbo mode
• 16GB of LPDDR5 RAM
• Same NVMe M.2 2230 SSD storage modules
• Same potentiometer joysticks (not Hall effect)
• Same dimensions (save 1mm taller joysticks)
• Same case compatibility
• Same buttons (some are clickier, like shoulder buttons and Steam key)
• Same screen resolution and aspect ratio (1280 x 800)
• User-selectable fixed refresh rates (no VRR or AMD FreeSync)
• Same driver-level AMD features (no frame generation, for example)
• Same power supply wattage (45W USB-C PD, does not charge faster than 45W)
• Same microSD placement and speed (UHS-I)
• Same game compatibility
• Same software updates
• Same starting price for a Steam Deck, period — but $400 now buys you the old LCD model with 256GB of NVMe storage, rather than the new OLED or the old 64GB LCD model with eMMC

 

[moinmoin]

Pretty good improvements for a direct replacement.

But to be fair since Steam Deck is only available from Valve directly they can easily keep the price stable. We will never know how well it would have done in the open market, with street prices and other reductions. And similar to other consoles and handhelds even refreshed its old tech by now.

 

[Tigerick]

I am watching SadlyItsBradley video about unboxing Apple's Vision Pro, then suddenly he flashed the cards above stating Valve Deckard with 02/14/2024. Is Deckard really coming so soon?

 

[SteinFG]

I am watching SadlyItsBradley video about unboxing Apple's Vision Pro, then suddenly he flashed the cards above stating Valve Deckard with 02/14/2024. Is Deckard really coming so soon?

Probably some inside joke from the dude. 02/14 is valentine's day

 

[soresu]

Is Deckard really coming so soon?

I don't know about soon, it's overdue at this point.

It better be something really special to have been worth the wait.

 

[Tigerick]

PS6 APU posted by Everest:



Look like upcoming Sarlak with one CPU chiplet, 72CU RDNA5 is too little for 256-bit GDDR7 unless there is 4 CU per WGP, then 144CU is making more sense. The inclusion of 4 LP cores on GPU die is interesting...

PS6 is rumored to launch in 2026 which is the same year as LPDDR6. There might have some similarities between two, we shall see...

 

[SteinFG]

PS6 APU posted by Everest:

He specifically said that it's a schizopost from a random discord group member, don't take it seriously. in fact don't take anything from it 😶‍🌫️

 

[Panino Manino]

He specifically said that it's a schizopost from a random discord group member, don't take it seriously. in fact don't take anything from it 😶‍🌫️

By the way, now there are some "rumors" that if Microsoft don't exit the console market they'll go with Intel for their next chip.
Would be very interesting, we could have an AMD vs Intel vs Nvidia situation.