so the predictions on memory latency (and thus the gaming performance) ? how come that AMD claims better latency with de-integrated memory controller ? the L4 (/wave Broadwell) ?
What basement? I was replying to a post talking about 8c being the minimum core count in Zen 3000 series.Same 8C chiplet. Right down to the basement.
Since those CPUs are for servers, the first thing we are interested to know is how much power each system used to finish the C-Ray benchmark and secondly, how much space each system will use because rack space is gold in server rooms.
So if EPYC 2 is 10% faster than dual XEONs but using 30-40% less power and can fit the same amount of cores at half the rack space then we are talking about a major advantage for the AMD product vs the competition.
What basement? I was replying to a post talking about 8c being the minimum core count in Zen 3000 series.
Same 8C chiplet. Right down to the basement. They might not even offer a 4 core Zen2 product (unless harvesting duds I guess).
I feel like we're speaking past each other. I expressed concern over the idea that Ryzen 3000 would end up using multiple 7nm chiplets togheter with an arguably sizeable IO die in the mainstream consumer line. That concern was directly related to manufacturing cost. You keep talking about design cost.Ryzen3.
I can see the path of least resistance for AMD being to use the 8C chiplet from top to bottom in the product stack, no exceptions.
Apple (A12 = 83mm^2) and Huawei (Kirin 980 = 75mm^2) are both around the same size as the Zen2 chiplet, and AFAIK, there's no die harvesting of those SOCs. Why would think yields are so terrible for a die that size?Yeah that would be the reason. 7 nm yields are likely bad. Not Intel bad of course but the Ryzens are going to be needed to soak up the 4 and 6 core possible dies while Epyc gets the full dies.
If Zen 2 allows for mismatched core counts per die/CCX that would make things more flexible.
I feel like we're speaking past each other. I expressed concern over the idea that Ryzen 3000 would end up using multiple 7nm chiplets togheter with an arguably sizeable IO die in the mainstream consumer line. That concern was directly related to manufacturing cost. You keep talking about design cost.
Whether Ryzen 3000 series should or would use a custom design is another discussion altogether, my issue is with the idea of Ryzen 3000 starting at 8c/8t minimum and building towards 16c/32t in order for segmentation to allow multiple price points, including that sweet sub $200 spot. It would be expensive and it would also have problems scaling with dual channel memory.
Apple (A12 = 83mm^2) and Huawei (Kirin 980 = 75mm^2) are both around the same size as the Zen2 chiplet, and AFAIK, there's no die harvesting of those SOCs. Why would think yields are so terrible for a die that size?
If 8c/8t is R3, where is R7?Also why do you think there must be 16 cores on the mainstream desktop?
I feel like we're speaking past each other. I expressed concern over the idea that Ryzen 3000 would end up using multiple 7nm chiplets togheter with an arguably sizeable IO die in the mainstream consumer line. That concern was directly related to manufacturing cost. You keep talking about design cost.
Whether Ryzen 3000 series should or would use a custom design is another discussion altogether, my issue is with the idea of Ryzen 3000 starting at 8c/8t minimum and building towards 16c/32t in order for segmentation to allow multiple price points, including that sweet sub $200 spot. It would be expensive and it would also have problems scaling with dual channel memory.
We'll see I guess. Beside price, which we can argue it's still ultimately flexible as long as there's proper value at $200 and $300 price points, there's one more thing though: whatever Ryzen 3000 can do at 16c/32t, Threadripper will do much better.Re. a 16C AM4 version - I had thought about this - and thought it'd be a bad idea, I actually had a post written saying as much - then realised that it would actually have better memory access than the 2990WX per core, clue much editing of my post. 2990WX works very well for rendering, so I don't really see a technical reason why a 16C on AM4 wouldn't sell well - if clockspeeds and power consumption make sense.
I don't think it makes much sense to offer >8c on dual channel memory. It would also mean added design cost for yet another CPU configuration (and possibly another IO die), apart from eating into TR's market segment.My bet is this gen will focus on maximizing 8c/16t performance on AM4. I'm not 100% convinced about this, maybe 12c/24t makes sense still
I don't think it makes much sense to offer >8c on dual channel memory. It would also mean added design cost for yet another CPU configuration (and possibly another IO die), apart from eating into TR's market segment.
I don't think it makes much sense to offer >8c on dual channel memory.
Huawei I don't know about I do imagine Apple will repurpose the defective dies for future products.
Also have to factor in that they are doing substantially higher volume than AMD could ever dream about, so they are getting a much better deal in terms of wafer costs.
If 8c/8t is R3, where is R7?
One 8 core chip providing 4 core, 6 core and 8 core products.
That s not the same market, those 8 chiplets + 4cm2 I/O compete more than favourably against a dual Xeon 28C MCM that is sold 13k$ or so, if they sell their chip 7k$ they would still make very good margins.
We'll see I guess. Beside price, which we can argue it's still ultimately flexible as long as there's proper value at $200 and $300 price points, there's one more thing though: whatever Ryzen 3000 can do at 16c/32t, Threadripper will do much better.
My bet is this gen will focus on maximizing 8c/16t performance on AM4. I'm not 100% convinced about this, maybe 12c/24t makes sense still, maybe I'm missing an important part of the picture considering this is just an entertaining hobby for me (no professional background, just enough engineering education to understand the basics), but I would rather entertain the idea of Ryzen 3000 being all APUs rather than Threadrippers with bandwidth issues.
One thing is for certain though, I think I may have to buy one.
That's Epyc, not Ryzen.
And you weren't following the discussion I was having at all, so why intervene if not on topic?You didn't read the lines before that:
And you weren't following the discussion I was having at all, so why intervene if not on topic?