AMD 2600+ REVIEW Still not #1!

[SSXeon5]

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q3/020821/index.html


The 2600+ was close to the 2.26GHz/PC1066 in performance and got toped by the 2.53GHz/1066 alot of the times. The New PR is still not right, it is slower with the revision. I thought amd wasnt all about the Mhz, but now they are? Hmm cough cough hypocrites cough

SSXeon

 

[allies]

Didn't know it'd be out so soon..well i guess today is wednesday right? seems like AMD is finally able to pick up the pace again, can't wait until the hammer comes out so intel and amd can do real battle

 

[SSXeon5]

With the launch of its Athlon XP 2600+, AMD has provided a big surprise: at the last minute, and without warning, the new CPU with the Thoroughbred "B" core landed at the THG lab in Munich. Compared to its predecessor, the Thoroughbred "A," this one shows above all that a significantly higher clock rate (this top model now runs at 2133 MHz) automatically means greater speed. In the benchmark tests, the Athlon XP 2600+ manages to surpass the Intel Pentium 4/2533 once more, but not in all disciplines.

Hmm the 2600+ only toped the 2.53Ghz in:

- 3D Mark 2000
- Lame 3.93 MP3 encoding
- Sandra CPU/Multimedia
- PCMark CPU bench
- Cinema 4D XL 7.303
- SPEC Viewperf 7 (3 out of the 5)

All of thease also were very marginal, i really dont see how tom got this conclusion, dont flame me but this is a Intel Fanboy asking a question: Are thease really realworld? Does someone go pay $250 on a XP to just run benchies? In 5 days you can grab a 2.26GHz P4 for ~$190, or a 2.53GHz for ~$240. Both are around the performance of the new 2600+. And you all say "o they used PC1066 thats so much" go grab a SiS648 motherboard w/ DDR400 and is on par with stock PC1066

SSXeon

 

[dexvx]

Tomshardware is getting hit hard, I cant even get through.

Yea, I think it is Wednesday in Germany (Tom's is based off Germany, so he usually get his reviews faster than anyone else).

Did tom overclock that to 2880 Mhz? (180x16) ?

 

[cheeta05r]

HotHardware.com
Judging by the benchmark scores, the price and the overclocked speeds we were able to hit, we think the AMD Athlon XP 2600+ is a winner. Throughout our battery of benchmarks, this processor exhibited top-notch performance, surpassing Intel's current flagship processor, the 2.53GHz Pentium 4, in multiple tests. To get the kind of performance we did out of a 2.53GHz Pentium 4 though, you'll have to spring for and i850E based motherboard and PC1066 RDRAM, which is currently about twice as expensive as PC3200 DDR RAM. If you were buying a processor, motherboard and memory today, a 2.53GHz Pentium 4, 512MB of PC1066 RDRAM and the Iwill i850E based P4R533-N we tested with would cost about $825 US (prices found on Pricewatch.Com). Using AMD's pricing, which is usually higher than the street price, an Athlon XP 2600+, 512MB of PC3200 RAM and an EPoX 8K3A+ however, would run you less than $540 US (Current pricing in lots of 1000: 2600+ $297 each, 2400+ $193 each). No matter which way you slice it, the system based on the Athlon XP 2600+ is the better buy. There can be no doubt AMD still offers unparalleled bang for your buck.

 

[SSXeon5]

Originally posted by: cheeta05r

HotHardware.com
Judging by the benchmark scores, the price and the overclocked speeds we were able to hit, we think the AMD Athlon XP 2600+ is a winner. Throughout our battery of benchmarks, this processor exhibited top-notch performance, surpassing Intel's current flagship processor, the 2.53GHz Pentium 4, in multiple tests. To get the kind of performance we did out of a 2.53GHz Pentium 4 though, you'll have to spring for and i850E based motherboard and PC1066 RDRAM, which is currently about twice as expensive as PC3200 DDR RAM. If you were buying a processor, motherboard and memory today, a 2.53GHz Pentium 4, 512MB of PC1066 RDRAM and the Iwill i850E based P4R533-N we tested with would cost about $825 US (prices found on Pricewatch.Com). Using AMD's pricing, which is usually higher than the street price, an Athlon XP 2600+, 512MB of PC3200 RAM and an EPoX 8K3A+ however, would run you less than $540 US (Current pricing in lots of 1000: 2600+ $297 each, 2400+ $193 each). No matter which way you slice it, the system based on the Athlon XP 2600+ is the better buy. There can be no doubt AMD still offers unparalleled bang for your buck.

Reread my 2nd post

SSXeon

 

[Acanthus]

those high end benchmarks are wicked flawed, and note that his OCed athlon is on a 2.2v vcore, itd die in less than a month.

by the same token , the pentium IV 2800 benchmarks are OCed on RDRAM running at almost PC1200. So i would only take the 2600+ and 2.53 benchmarks as valid.

Looks like AMD is finally getting agressive. Who woulda thought even a week ago that AMD/ATi would be faster than Intel/NV heh.

 

[Vic]

SSXeon5, not to flame, but you are clearly are too stupid (or too fanboy'ed) to realize that this is just the tip of the iceberg. Like all products, they run for a while and then reach their peak. The P4 NW has done that and is near its peak (and where I originally projected more than a year ago, it will make to just above 3GHz). AMD has a new technique, most likely involving SOI, and clockspeeds are going to ramp quickly. For AMD, a new product cycle is just beginning.
And if you haven't read IBM's whitepaper on SOI, I strongly suggest you search their site and read it. While you read it, remember that AMD has a license to this technology and nearly two years of research into it, and Intel does not. Try not to cry on your keyboard
As for your PR complaints, I suggest you get over them. I have a hunch that PR may end up being just a temporary move on AMD's part after all.

 

[CrazySaint]

I don't know, I still don't trust Tom's. First off, their first paragraph hailing the 2600+ as the new Champion, wasn't really bore up by their own benchmarks, second, in at least one benchmark, one XP processor was beat by another XP processory with a slower clockspeed AND a slower FSB. I think I'll reserve judgement until AT gets a review up.

 

[WarCon]

The T-bred looks like it could use some memory bandwidth improvements. Anything with SSE2 optimizations or tests that needed memory bandwidth (encoding) the P4 bettered the t-bred (but not by that much). But in the synthetics like Sandra that test specific regions of a chip. The t-bred really shined. I wish that had shown up in the game benchmarking though, because that is really the only place I care about speed anymore (games).

Gives me some optimism about the Hammers though.

 

[BuddyAtBzboyz]

Originally posted by: allies
Didn't know it'd be out so soon..well i guess today is wednesday right? seems like AMD is finally able to pick up the pace again, can't wait until the hammer comes out so intel and amd can do real battle

When hammer comes out AMD and Intel will not be doing battle. They will no longer even be on the same playing field. Even if Intel implements Yamhil, they will not be able to offer the same solution. Yamhil is just some hacked together code. I'm not saying the hammer chips will whip the p4, just that the playing field will not be fair. You can't exactly benchmark a 32 bit processor vs a 64 bit processor. If you did the benchmarks would be jumping all over. Then the AMD fanboyz can say look the hammer beats the p4 by 500% in this benchmark. Right now what is more interesting is like what psy said. SOI will bring about a new round of competition. And while I am partial to AMD, I would like for Intel to implement it too cause I want the best possible product and I don't care who it comes from.

 

[mrman3k]

Actually it looks like the new processor is very good. But I want to hear from real people how it performs and overclocks!

 

[Acanthus]

Intel is nowhere near the peak of the P4 design, i dont know where youre getting your information, but intel plans to take it down to .09 micron and double the cache again, taking the P4 well over 4ghz. The 3.06 is the only confirmed clockspeed that isnt coming out soon, no one knows if theres going to be a 3.2 or a 3.33, or a 3.5. There are a number of 3ghz + air cooled P4s out there now, i would assume that only minor core changes can keep the clockspeed climbing. The inherant problem is Cooling. CPUs will soon be putting out more than 100w of heat.

 

[SSXeon5]

Originally posted by: PSYWVic
SSXeon5, not to flame, but you are clearly are too stupid (or too fanboy'ed) to realize that this is just the tip of the iceberg. Like all products, they run for a while and then reach their peak. The P4 NW has done that and is near its peak (and where I originally projected more than a year ago, it will make to just above 3GHz). AMD has a new technique, most likely involving SOI, and clockspeeds are going to ramp quickly. For AMD, a new product cycle is just beginning.
And if you haven't read IBM's whitepaper on SOI, I strongly suggest you search their site and read it. While you read it, remember that AMD has a license to this technology and nearly two years of research into it, and Intel does not. Try not to cry on your keyboard
As for your PR complaints, I suggest you get over them. I have a hunch that PR may end up being just a temporary move on AMD's part after all.

What are you talking about, and calling me stupid? O the northwood is close to its peak? The 2.66 and 2.8GHz are on there way, there is still 3.06Ghz and 3.2GHz on there way and GB to get the Northwood to its peak. Wooptie, SOI will be adoped by Intel in 2005, Prescott will have Straining Silicon, so why am I crying? Doesnt change the fact the 2.13GHz XP is about the same performance as a 2.26GHz/2.4Ghz P4 w/PC1066 or DDR400.

SSXeon

 

[Face2Face]

That's great and everything! but look at u! your running a slow computer so why talk smack?

 

[BlvdKing]

Doesnt change the fact the 2.13GHz XP is about the same performance as a 2.26GHz/2.4Ghz P4 w/PC1066 or DDR400.

It still beats the P4 clock for clock, even with the P4's 533 MHz bus and much faster memory. The memory was limited to PC2100 or PC2400 for the Athlon due to its FSB. Overall I would say this is a big win for AMD; it proves they are still in the game and can release competitive products. The 2600+ wins some, the 2.533 GHz P4 w/ 1066 RDRAM wins some.

This will give us something to flame each other about for a few weeks and cause more "AMD vs. Intel" threads to pop up. oh well....

 

[CrazySaint]

Originally posted by: Greenhell6
That's great and everything! but look at u! your running a slow computer so why talk smack?

Ok, I obviously don't agree with SSXeon on everything, but I can't understand why people keep bring this up. WTH does your current rig speed have to do with your ability to make a proper evaluation of a PCU? As for personal insults (calling SSXeon stupid), they're just...well, stupid. I also don't see the P4 being "past its prime".

 

[Rainsford]

Tom's benches are pretty worthless, I'm waiting for Anand's article to come out, that should tell us more usefull information.

But, SSXeon's bewildering comments to the side (why do you feel the great need to rip on AMD every post you make?), I think this proves that AMD is not going to just sit there and die like so many people have been suggesting on this board.

 

[paralazarguer]

aceshardware has also done a review of this new processor

 

[Vic]

I thought I made it clear that I called SSXeon5 "stupid" because of his fanatical fanboyism. It was not meant to be a flame and I will edit it out and retract it if people are offended or feel that it is inappropriate for this forum. I have followed his posts for some time and it is pretty clear to me that if AMD released 10GHz with appropriate performance for $10 bucks a chip tomorrow, he would still find something wrong with it and/or feel the need to rain on AMD's parade. That kind of attitude, regardless of any other knowledge, is (IMO) stupid.
As for what kind of rig he uses, I think that's irrelevant. I'm sure there are some here, though, who might think that it would be nice that someone who constantly bashes AMD and praises the P4 would actually own a P4 rig and have experience with a P4 rig (especially when bashing AMD for only winning in "synthetic" benchmarks), but hey, what does that matter?

As it is, facts are facts. AMD has a new toy and it hangs with the best Intel has to offer right now. I love it, because it only means that cpu prices are going down again (which is why I root AMD on as I VERY clearly remember Intel dominance and $900 cpus :| ). And the battle between the two companies is so much fun to watch.... the drama, I love it.

edit: also, nowhere did I say that the P4 was "past its prime." Read again. SSXeon5 even quoted it for me so there can be no doubt. I said that it is "near its peak," and "will make it to just above 3GHz." Which it will, possibly as high as 3.5GHz but no higher. Do not be confused that the 90nm Prescott is the P4. It is not. It is the Pentium 5 (or whatever Intel decides to call it). And it will not be out until almost a year from now. In case some of you haven't been paying attention, AMD has a lot of new products lined up between now and then.

 

[SSXeon5]

Originally posted by: Greenhell6
That's great and everything! but look at u! your running a slow computer so why talk smack?

Just wait little one, and btw take the link in my sig

Originally posted by: CrazySaint

Originally posted by: Greenhell6
That's great and everything! but look at u! your running a slow computer so why talk smack?

Ok, I obviously don't agree with SSXeon on everything, but I can't understand why people keep bring this up. WTH does your current rig speed have to do with your ability to make a proper evaluation of a PCU? As for personal insults (calling SSXeon stupid), they're just...well, stupid. I also don't see the P4 being "past its prime".

Thanx Crazy

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Tom's benches are pretty worthless, I'm waiting for Anand's article to come out, that should tell us more usefull information.

But, SSXeon's bewildering comments to the side (why do you feel the great need to rip on AMD every post you make?), I think this proves that AMD is not going to just sit there and die like so many people have been suggesting on this board.

Because im sick of everyone praising the XP for everything when the P4 is just now getting credit. I dont bash them everypost .... read some of my responces to amd guys needing upgrades, sh*t go grab a 2200+ they are $150!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by: PSYWVic
I thought I made it clear that I called SSXeon5 "stupid" because of his fanatical fanboyism. It was not meant to be a flame and I will edit it out and retract it if people are offended or feel that it is inappropriate for this forum. I have followed his posts for some time and it is pretty clear to me that if AMD released 10GHz with appropriate performance for $10 bucks a chip tomorrow, he would still find something wrong with it and/or feel the need to rain on AMD's parade. That kind of attitude, regardless of any other knowledge, is (IMO) stupid.
As for what kind of rig he uses, I think that's irrelevant. I'm sure there are some here, though, who might think that it would be nice that someone who constantly bashes AMD and praises the P4 would actually own a P4 rig and have experience with a P4 rig (especially when bashing AMD for only winning in "synthetic" benchmarks), but hey, what does that matter?

As it is, facts are facts. AMD has a new toy and it hangs with the best Intel has to offer right now. I love it, because it only means that cpu prices are going down again (which is why I root AMD on as I VERY clearly remember Intel dominance and $900 cpus :| ). And the battle between the two companies is so much fun to watch.... the drama, I love it.

No i test everyones knowledge here in the forums, because I dont "follow the crowd" and go buy XPs cuz people say they are fast, and i dont want to worry about my chip being 100* C or VIA. O like i havent built, benched, used P4 systems? O I have, and man do they crap on my rig Super fast, super cool and super stable. I have oced my friends 1.6a to 2.4 stock everything and man, that was great. I845D mobo for $115, 1.6a for $160 and some 256MB Sammy PC2700 for $65, o man. And also did another friends 2.0a and it did 2.66 @ 1.65v with no sweat

SSXeon

 

[Acanthus]

yeah AMD has tons coming out, like hammer which is only 10 months late already.

The fact that AMD is limited by their FSB is no ones fault but AMDs, if they would design their own chipsets, they would get much better performance out of their chips (AMD760/761 was a great mobo in its day).

As far as everyone in here praising the clock for clock bullcrap you guys always go for. ITS NOT CLOCK FOR CLOCK YOU MORONS, THERE IS NO AMD 2.53GHZ. Its the best bang for the buck i agree 100%, that doesnt make it the fastest. Grow up.

 

[paralazarguer]

The conclusion from ace's sums it up fairly well:

Four out of seven gaming benchmarks proved to be faster on the Athlon XP 2600+ than on the 2.53 GHz Pentium 4. So, for gamers, the Athlon XP 2600+ lives up to its QS rating and will be a very attractive alternative considering its price.

However, the 2.53 Pentium 4 outperforms the Athlon XP 2600+ by a significant margin in typical workstation creative work. For those kinds of applications, AMD's platform will not outperform Intel's before the Hammer family arrives. We strongly suspect that the Athlon has enough firepower on board to perform well in CAD and 3D-modeling workloads, but that the AGP port and memory bandwidth of the current AMD platform is simply not up to par with Intel's. On the flipside, the Athlon XP 2600+ is clearly the fastest processor in the scientific workloads.

 

[CrawlingEye]

If you want to start talking about people's rigs, try comparing to mine.
I'll be done by the beginning of September (when I get my R9700.)

Expect my DDR480 to be had by then, too.

 

[Vic]

SSXeon5, you post on AT. In case you didn't notice, this place is Intel Central (even though, yes, I am aware that it began as an AMD board, this place has been nothing but P4 madness all this year). When you buy Intel here, particularly P4 NW's, you ARE "going with the crowd." Perhaps the reason you might feel otherwise is because of your fanboyism makes people dislike you. As for 100C

and VIA, you might be able to persuade me that you have some experience with a P4 rig, but I am now very certain that you have never touched that which you bash, an AthlonXP. Either way, I find you lacking.

Acanthus, get a clue. The Hammer was never due before '03. So how it can be "10 months late already" is WAY beyond me. And it won't even have an FSB, so I guess that takes care of that problem, don't it? Even though that FSB problem has absolutely nothing to do with their chipsets...