AMD 3700+ or Intel D930 ?

[sokos]

Imagine your best mate is starting a netcafe/gaming center.
He needs to buy something that has enough juice for todays and 2 years from now games e.g BF3, HalfLife3, etc..etc..

I was almost sure we'd get 50 machines with the AMD 3700+ (San Diego), but today there was a big drop in the price of D9xx series CPU's of Intel and they destroyed the plans and have to start thinking again.

Keep in mind:
a. there is NO overclocking
b. the machines will run 7900GT's
c. I would like to save energy/power consumption (PSU's will be 400W)
d. That's the top budget we can afford for CPU.. $220

and it would be really nice if in 2 years wouldn't need to change the M/B for a new chipset.

What would you advice your friend to do?

 

[Cooler]

Dual Core > Single Core if you do lots of mult tasking and other use mult threaded programs .
Also Conore entrey cpus will be at low price as well in 8-12 weeks.

 

[sokos]

as I said 90% of their time, they'll be running games on these machines..
Guys your assistance will be most valuable and if you ever visit Greece you 'll have free gaming/LANparty

 

[stevty2889]

If you are mainly gaming, and power consumption is a concern, I would certainly go with the single core 3700+ over the dual core, since there are currently only a couple of games that can take advantage of dual cores. As for not having the change the motherboard out in 2 years..well slim chance of that, since AMD is going to DDR2 and Intel almost always requires a new chipset when new CPU's come out. Of course you could likely still find a socket 939 X2 in a couple years, which you could use for an upgrade path.

 

[A554SS1N]

Aye, for gaming only, 3700+ will be better than the low-mid 9xx dualcore - if you want to upgrade motherboard/chipset down the line, you might want to wait for Socket AM2 from AMD.

 

[sokos]

problem is the place needs to be up and running in a month the latest!

Will next years game benefit from dual core?
Are games so much depended from the CPU? Coz they'll be running 7900GT's..

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Originally posted by: sokos
problem is the place needs to be up and running in a month the latest!

Will next years game benefit from dual core? Not likely
Are games so much depended from the CPU? Coz they'll be running 7900GT's..
No, games are much more GPU dependant. The 3700's should be good for quite some time

 

[sokos]

the new D930 model, supports SpeedStepping for less power consumption, but still I can't find how it will compare in energy saving with the 3700+ in heavy gaming..

 

[450R]

I'd personally go with the 3700+ ... but then you're stuck with virtually no S939 upgrade path unless dual-core offered significant gaming improvements by that time. And that's assuming you could even find enough S939 X2's at a reasonable price by then.

 

[lopri]

He needs machines for gaming/net cafe. Not likely he'd consider upgrading every 6 month, you know. I'd put more weight into maintenance/power usage. Also remember the P-D has just as limited upgrade path as Socket 939 A64. OP, I'd refer to power usage (well, power bills I guess) of similar business. Here are a few things:

1. How many machines (out of your planned 50) will be idling at any given time, or average? (Well, I wish you and your new business the best, but a few seats will be vacant from time to time. I own a business, too. )
2. Which configuration has better power management? (sleep-wake)
3. Which configuration will consume less power in idle?
4. Which configuration will consume less power in use?
5. How are you expecting your customers usage patterns to be? Not all of them will be gaming. Some people like to surf porn sites all night, some ch*cks like to sit down and chat all night, too.

All in all, I'd be somewhat inclined to pick 3700 based rigs. Your customers won't care whether the machine has single-core CPU or dual-core CPU as long as their games run well. And I can't see 3700 being slower than P-D 830 in games, even in 2 years. And single-core CPUs have inherent advantage when it comes to power consumption. Make sure you pick the right mobo regardless. (which supports Speed-Step/C'nQ')

 

[Insomniator]

I dont understand why everyone is suggesting the 3700+. For games that dont support dual core,
there is barely a noticeable difference between the two cpus. However, for quake 4, the dual core
chip destroys the single core chip... just look at the firing squad benches. More and more games
will be multi-threaded soon, especially with quad core chips comin out in 2007. This makes the 930
much more future proof.

Also, although ive never used a dual core system, its been said that they are much more responsive overall
for everyday usage, not just multitasking.

Power wise I suppose the edge does go to the 3700+, but we dont know how effective the enhanced speed step
is.

The point is right now, the chips are pretty close in game performance, and in 1-2 years, the 930 will likely be
much faster.

 

[sokos]

thanks all you guys, really!
Your opinion really matters.

Offcourse I d go for the AM2 IF i had another 1-2 months to wait, but I need to get the machines up and running in 2-3 weeks.
Coz If i dont, rent is running, losing income

Although I tend to like AMD more, on my scenario today things look for picking the D930's.
Tomorrow's games, some people advice me that they will run better with dual cores, so...?

Isn't it true that on new games 70% of the work is done by the GPU? So since I m running the 7900GT, won't I be OK with either CPU?

 

[Bobthelost]

I'd go single core, it's going to be sufficent CPU power for the next two years and the power savings are not inconsequential: 50 machines each drawing 50W less (rough number) = 2500W less power drawn. Assuming you're open/on 8 hours a day then you're looking @ 20KWH a day difference, which mounts up to a decent amount of money over a year. (in the UK you'd be looking @ a £400 difference roughly).

Most games are graphics limmited, with a 7900GT you should be fine with 3700s.

 

[lopri]

Yeah the performance won't be too big of a concern. I'm guessing, but I really doubt a dual-core will be needed for gaming in a year or two. I'd pay closer attention to power bills. And heat of course. 50 machines sitting tight together will generate lots of heat and in summer you will probably have to have air-condintioning on for 24/7 most likely.

 

[Keysplayr]

Not for anything, but any predictions on games that will be coming out in the next two years? Particularly, ones that take advantage of more than one CPU core?

I ask this because if he gets 3700+ chips, and over the next two years games surface that take advantage of dual core, how badly will the game suffer if restricted to only single core performance? This is a tough call because nobody can predict the future,
but you should think about new games that will surface that support dual/multi core CPU's and how the games will perform for your customers. If they arent happy with your machines gaming performance, they won't return.

How much do X2 3800's go for? Gonna check newegg.
Got it. 297.00. But you might want to weigh the cost of electricity usage over two years for fifty machines. It might be worth it to go X2 3800+. Maybe you can go for the 3800X2's and get lower priced motherboards and memory. You said no o/c'ing, so all you need is value mobo and mem.

Just thinking out loud here. But do try to work those 3800's in there. I think it will bring the most benefit.

 

[lopri]

That's a good point. Actually too good a point.

The reality is, however, people at PC-cafe are not always at the front-end of gaming technology from my observation. A lot of people there play Diablo II (duh), StarCraft/WarCraft (lol), Half-Life, and of course, various MMORPGs. Check out the major cyber-gaming "Olympics", "WorldCups", etc. Those are a very good and accurate barometer to figure the kind of people who populate the "Net-cafes".

Anyway, for the OP's business, the first thing I'd consider would be power bills and maintenance (including heat management).

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: lopri
That's a good point. Actually too good a point.

The reality is, however, people at PC-cafe are not always at the front-end of gaming technology from my observation. A lot of people there play Diablo II (duh), StarCraft/WarCraft (lol), Half-Life, and of course, various MMORPGs. Check out the major cyber-gaming "Olympics", "WorldCups", etc. Those are a very good and accurate barometer to figure the kind of people who populate the "Net-cafes".

Anyway, for the OP's business, the first thing I'd consider would be power bills and maintenance (including heat management).

More great points. If there is no anticipation for super high end gaming, then he might as well nab 50 PD 805's which are dirt cheap right now and probably better on power than the 930's. Dont quote me on the power usage. We may want to get Markfw in here for the power usage as he is always checking that stuff out.

 

[Azndude2190]

Another vote for the 3700...its a beast

 

[anandtechrocks]

I got a 3700+ and love it, but to be honest, at this point in time I don't think I'd ever buy a single core chip again. As soon as AM2 and Conroe are available I'm going to buy which ever is best. Multi-core is the future and to spend that much on an old single core chip is not that smart in my opinion.

However, you have an interesting situation. The 930 is 65nm so it will atleast require less power and be cooler than Intels first generation of dual core chips, but it's still high. My 3700+ runs very cool, even though it is heavily overclocked and power usage is quite minimal. When you put the dual core patch on certain games the performance does increase a lot, probably enough to put a dual core Intel ahead of a single core AMD, but I can't find the article I saw this on.

 

[sokos]

u guys got free gaming anytime you visit Greece
Is there some review on energy meterings on these two babies ?
The X2 3800+ is 310euro's here, that is 100euros more expensive than the two competitors of this topic, multiply that by 50 and you see how much money that is

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Just thought I'd add a random value for you. What about a Turion MT-37 Those things have comparable performance (I believe) to 3700s and are below your $220 budget. Combine that with a Turion compatible MSI mobo (RS482M-IL for a ATI Xpress 200 chipset, K8NGM-V for a nVidia 6100 chipset, or K8N Neo-F for nVidia nForce 4 chipset) and then get the covers off of MSI's website (that enables you to run any S754 cooler) You then have a VERY low power computer. That would shave a lot of money off your electric bill. No known figures from me here but I believe thats arounda 20w save on teh 3700 and i think it would be well over a 100w saved on the 930. Just my 2c. Analyze and criticize as seen fit

EDIT: Also, when you get your final build, show us the specs and let us help with the PSU as well. We are good at things like that if we aren't ripping each other's throats out

 

[sokos]

I m stuck again between the AMD 3700+ and the D930 (waiting to get a C1 stepping so i can test it)
Thanks thecoolnessrune, good mentality you got there but a Turion wont play as good games as the two above will.

You guys please recommend me some avg priced PSU's ~50-60$

 

[sokos]

assuming i go with the 930, which would be a good mobo to match it with ? (nothing fancy required)

Do I have to go with 945 or 955 chipset ?

 

[stevty2889]

Originally posted by: sokos
assuming i go with the 930, which would be a good mobo to match it with ? (nothing fancy required)

Do I have to go with 945 or 955 chipset ?

945/955/975 chipset boards, as well as some 865 and NF4 chipset boards are compatible with the 9xx series. Since you aren't going to be overclocking, no need for an expensive board. However if you did decide to OC later, the only boards I have seen work well are the Asus P5WD2 premium, and P5WD2-E premium.

 

[dexvx]

About power consumption:

http://techreport.com/reviews/2006q2/core-duo/index.x?pg=15

The 3700+ is the same revision as the FX-57 (obviously lower power cause of lower clock speed). The newer Pentium-D 930 is in line with the XE965 (the ones with speedstep), but obviously lower because of lower clock speed.