AMD 6900 reviews thread (UPDATED)

[happy medium]

Hehe there won't be 10.13.. no 13th month .. that would be 11.01.

:biggrin:

 

[RussianSensation]

naw, it's the professional users who are funding the r & d, not the tiny % that buy high end consumer cards.

You got me there :awe:

 

[MentalIlness]

Ya know what I just might do ? I may just grab a 6970 and a GTX570 and run both separately in my upcoming build. Driver testing / IQ / Min / Ave / Max frames.

Of course, I wouldn't return the one that was slower. I'd keep them both.

Seriously, this is what I am going to do.

And for kicks and giggles. Ill also run my 6870 in there as well, before giving it to the kids. Hell, may even test the old 9800GTX against them as well.

Going to be fun.

 

[mosox]

The new cards are a big fail for AMD because:

- The $370 6950 is slightly slower than the $500+ Nvidia GTX 580. Big fail there.

- AMD doesn't have CUDA and has the nerve to have something else called "Accelerated parallel processing". Not good, it's not named CUDA.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-6850-6870-review/7

- AMD doesn't have GPU accelerated proprietary Physx and has the nerve to root for the open and free CPU accelerated one considering that the video card is mostly used in gaming not the CPU so it would be a good idea to run the Physx on the latter - We don't want that, we like to take a 40% hit when running a GPU accelerated Physx. What's the problem, we'll just caugh some more $$$ and buy a better video card - let the CPU idle, why use it?

- AMD doesn't have proprietary 3D and goes open source. So, no proprietary software, no proprietary glasses, no proprietary displays - but any 3D display with HDMI 1.4 (fail) - any glasses (Boooo!!!) including the passive ones and free software (the horror!).

http://www.pcworld.com/article/208551/amd_takes_open_approach_to_hd3d.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-6870-radeon-hd-6850-barts,2776-3.html


Let's all fight against the open stuff and promote the proprietary one!!! Fight the CPU accelerated Physx, the [FONT=verdana,geneva]OpenCL[/FONT], the open 3D and let's support all the Corporate Proprietary Stuff they throw at us !1! And we like the slightly faster cards that are way more expensive - being at the top of the benches with a few FPS more - priceless.

 

[happy medium]

The new cards are a big fail for AMD because:

- The $370 6950 is slightly slower than the $500+ Nvidia GTX 580. Big fail there.

- AMD doesn't have CUDA and has the nerve to have something else called "Accelerated parallel processing". Not good, it's not named CUDA.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-6850-6870-review/7

- AMD doesn't have GPU accelerated proprietary Physx and has the nerve to root for the open and free CPU accelerated one considering that the video card is mostly used in gaming not the CPU so it would be a good idea to run the Physx on the latter - We don't want that, we like to take a 40% hit when running a GPU accelerated Physx. What's the problem, we'll just caugh some more $$$ and buy a better video card - let the CPU idle, why use it?

- AMD doesn't have proprietary 3D and goes open source. So, no proprietary software, no proprietary glasses, no proprietary displays - but any 3D display with HDMI 1.4 (fail) - any glasses (Boooo!!!) including the passive ones and free software (the horror!).

http://www.pcworld.com/article/208551/amd_takes_open_approach_to_hd3d.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-6870-radeon-hd-6850-barts,2776-3.html


Let's all fight against the open stuff and promote the proprietary one!!! Fight the CPU accelerated Physx, the [FONT=verdana,geneva]OpenCL[/FONT], the open 3D and let's support all the Corporate Proprietary Stuff they throw at us !1! And we like the slightly faster cards that are way more expensive - being at the top of the benches with a few FPS more - priceless.

I don't understnd how Nvidia is #1 in visual computing either. :hmm:

 

[Lonbjerg]

You are right Wreckage. Physx is like an option in a car, an option that the AMD 'cars' don't come with at that. But unlike useful options like A/C, it's like an option that lowers horsepower, lowers economy, and only works on <1% of roads.

Kinda like Eyefinity right?

 

[OCGuy]

The new cards are a big fail for AMD because:

- The $370 6950 is slightly slower than the $500+ Nvidia GTX 580. Big fail there.
- AMD doesn't have CUDA and has the nerve to have something else called "Accelerated parallel processing". Not good, it's not named CUDA.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-6850-6870-review/7

- AMD doesn't have GPU accelerated proprietary Physx and has the nerve to root for the open and free CPU accelerated one considering that the video card is mostly used in gaming not the CPU so it would be a good idea to run the Physx on the latter - We don't want that, we like to take a 40% hit when running a GPU accelerated Physx. What's the problem, we'll just caugh some more $$$ and buy a better video card - let the CPU idle, why use it?

- AMD doesn't have proprietary 3D and goes open source. So, no proprietary software, no proprietary glasses, no proprietary displays - but any 3D display with HDMI 1.4 (fail) - any glasses (Boooo!!!) including the passive ones and free software (the horror!).

http://www.pcworld.com/article/208551/amd_takes_open_approach_to_hd3d.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-6870-radeon-hd-6850-barts,2776-3.html


Let's all fight against the open stuff and promote the proprietary one!!! Fight the CPU accelerated Physx, the [FONT=verdana,geneva]OpenCL[/FONT], the open 3D and let's support all the Corporate Proprietary Stuff they throw at us !1! And we like the slightly faster cards that are way more expensive - being at the top of the benches with a few FPS more - priceless.

I know that is supposed to be some parody nV fanboi post, but you failed right off the bat by saying 6950 instead of 6970.

If you want to pollute our forums, at least be more slick.

 

[Mistwalker]

lets put this high resolution BS to bed with the gtx580 vs the 6970.

From the Anandtech review @ 25001600 4x aa.

You realize that comparing a $500 card with a $370 card where the cheaper card is often no more than a tiny percentage behind or EVER overtakes the more expensive card is not an effective argument--you're blatantly ignoring the massive price/performance aspect of the cards. Even if you try to ignore all metrics but the one that helps your point (in this point, performance in a vacuum) then the 580 is destroyed by various CF configurations, and the 5970 still wins card vs. card.

Look, the 580 is a beast of a card but a terrible, terrible value. At its current price point, the moment you even start comparing it to the 6970, you've lost. The 570 is Nvidia's win here, as its price/performance is leagues ahead of the 580. If you are only going to buy one card and care at all about value, the 570 is hard to argue against in most situations.

On the other hand, if you game at extremely high resolutions or are willing to go dual-card, the 6900 series shows its worth. Someone earlier in the thread said any enthusiast willing to spend $400 would likely spend $500, even for a marginal performance boost. The same logic could be used to spend $600 on CF'd 6950s for a massive performance boost. It's all relative when you actually look at things in context and not consistently by one single metric.

Again, the need to declare an outright winner in these situations when there are a number of options for many different budgets, from either card maker, with decent performance, is fruitless. The 6970 didn't blow anyone away but between Nvidia and AMD there's a solid lineup from $160 on up.

 

[mosox]

but you failed right off the bat by saying 6950 instead of 6970.

Ya got me. That typo clearly dismisses everything.

 

[OCGuy]

Ya got me. That typo clearly dismisses everything.

At least you understand. I could go into the rest of your parody-post, but this forum sees enough of those that it isn't really all that effective

 

[dookulooku]

- AMD doesn't have proprietary 3D and goes open source. So, no proprietary software, no proprietary glasses, no proprietary displays - but any 3D display with HDMI 1.4 (fail) - any glasses (Boooo!!!) including the passive ones and free software (the horror!).

http://www.pcworld.com/article/208551/amd_takes_open_approach_to_hd3d.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-6870-radeon-hd-6850-barts,2776-3.html

The only reason AMD goes open source is because:

1. They don't have the resources to develop their own solution.
2. They're afraid to take any risks. They're afraid to be leaders. They're afraid to make a GPU faster than Nvidia's.

AMD should just buy out the 3rd party company or technology they're relying on for 3D. Not doing it yourself is just going to ultimately result in an inferior product. It reeks of unprofessional-ism. You're basically asking someone else to do the work you should be doing, similar to asking someone do homework or take a test for you.

How much news have you heard about open source 3D technology? Not much, because I'm sure most people are satisfied with their proprietary Samsung, Sony, LG, or Panasonic 3D TVs and glasses, and could care less about open technology. Manufacturers could care less about it either. Every manufacturer's panel and TV is different: you need proprietary technology to get the most out of the hardware. Why invest in something that makes it harder to differentiate your product from your competitor's?

Nvidia's solution works on any 3D display with HDMI 1.4a also, you know. I know, it's not free unless you have an existing 3d vision kit. But right now it's all about design wins, and most self-respecting large companies won't want a solution from a company that can't do it's own share of work.

 

[dookulooku]

I should emphasize that 3D, at this stage, is not a DIY sort-of-thing. AMD is trying to make it sound like it is, when in reality, it isn't. It's tightly controlled by the industry, and unlike software, there is actually hardware technologies involved. Until it becomes a DIY sort-of-thing, AMD should stop singing the praises of it's open approach and start taking control here.

Edit:
AMD is relying on two companies (iz3d and ddd) to provide 3D support. And those two companies' products also support Nvidia cards. So 3D-wise, an Nvidia card is capable of everything an AMD card can do, and more. At least Nvidia is giving you the option for what most people believe is a higher quality solution.

Edit:
DDD's Tridef isn't free, unless you have an HP Envy 3D. So much for the free software advantage. And wouldn't you want 3D gaming support to be part of the AMD's driver, instead of some additional driver purchased from another company?

 

[happy medium]

Look, the 580 is a beast of a card but a terrible, terrible value.

Just like the 5970 and other cards that because they were the fastest they always demanded a price premium.
This is nothing new. When the market settles prices will drop. They always do.

 

[Mistwalker]

Just like the 5970 and other cards that because they were the fastest they always demanded a price premium.
This is nothing new. When the market settles prices will drop. They always do.

I understand the premium top-performing parts carry, and I fully expect prices to drop sooner rather than later.

Those points don't make it any less absurd comparing two cards $130 apart in order to "settle things once and for all."

I should emphasize that 3D, at this stage, is not a DIY sort-of-thing. AMD is trying to make it sound like it is, when in reality, it isn't. It's tightly controlled by the industry, and unlike software, there is actually hardware technologies involved. Until it becomes a DIY sort-of-thing, AMD should stop singing the praises of it's open approach and start taking control here.

I tend to agree, if only because I like 3D as a tech with great entertainment potential, and AMD seems to have Eyefinity and little else when it comes to investing in and pushing new devices. I just don't know if they have the cash to do it.

 

[Unkle_Tar]

The only reason AMD goes open source is because:

1. They don't have the resources to develop their own solution.
2. They're afraid to take any risks. They're afraid to be leaders. They're afraid to make a GPU faster than Nvidia's.

AMD should just buy out the 3rd party company or technology they're relying on for 3D. Not doing it yourself is just going to ultimately result in an inferior product. It reeks of unprofessional-ism. You're basically asking someone else to do the work you should be doing, similar to asking someone do homework or take a test for you.

How much news have you heard about open source 3D technology? Not much, because I'm sure most people are satisfied with their proprietary Samsung, Sony, LG, or Panasonic 3D TVs and glasses, and could care less about open technology. Manufacturers could care less about it either. Every manufacturer's panel and TV is different: you need proprietary technology to get the most out of the hardware. Why invest in something that makes it harder to differentiate your product from your competitor's?

Nvidia's solution works on any 3D display with HDMI 1.4a also, you know. I know, it's not free unless you have an existing 3d vision kit. But right now it's all about design wins, and most self-respecting large companies won't want a solution from a company that can't do it's own share of work.

Looks at entertainment center, Sony blu-ray player works with LG tv. What were they thinking?

 

[nitromullet]

Ya know what I just might do ? I may just grab a 6970 and a GTX570 and run both separately in my upcoming build. Driver testing / IQ / Min / Ave / Max frames.

Of course, I wouldn't return the one that was slower. I'd keep them both.

Seriously, this is what I am going to do.

And for kicks and giggles. Ill also run my 6870 in there as well, before giving it to the kids. Hell, may even test the old 9800GTX against them as well.

Going to be fun.

Owning both, especially at the same time, is great. I've done that quite a few times. The best part is that you can completely ignore every forum and review site if you choose because you have all the information you need right there in your rig.

 

[badb0y]

I knew this would happen, although the 6970 is slightly slower than what I expected. Antilles will be a monster though have you guys seen that CFX scaling.

6970 needs to come down to 349$

6950 needs the 5870/5850/GTX 470/ GTX 480 to die(lol).

 

[dookulooku]

Looks at entertainment center, Sony blu-ray player works with LG tv. What were they thinking?

Blu-ray isn't an open spec either. I'm not sure what the figure is, but in order to build a blu-ray player, you probably have to first fork over a sum well into the 6 digits.

I'm not really criticizing AMD for not having their own displays and glasses, for not having something akin to 3D Vision ecosystem. Not counting notebooks with built-in 3D displays, the market for 3D monitors designed for the PC is small. I'm criticizing AMD for relying on the software of other companies to produce a stereo 3D image. Unless a company like Microsoft steps in and offers an API for stereo 3D, it is in AMD's best interest to create a solution that is best optimized for its hardware.

As for glasses, there are glasses that work across different displays. But the glasses maker will need to contact with the display manufacturer to get the settings, timings, and IR codes needed for them to inter-operate.

 

[Dribble]

HardOCP seem to have a glowing review for these new cards. From performance stand point, they are a little disappointing I say for me, but that's because NV surprised w/ 570+580. however, I think these parts are priced right. adding more competition to 300-400 range doesn't hurt.

Just fyi [H] use default quality settings not HQ which favours AMD cards since they nerfed IQ for more performance (most reputable sites use HQ which for cards this high end makes sense). They don't seem very keen to let anyone know that fact - several people asked in the past and they never replied, other forum posters said they were using HQ and weren't corrected (despite there being a huge thread on the subject), but in about page 17 of the reviews thread they let it slip they were using default quality settings.

Combine that with 25*16 only graphs and their fixation with 30fps being enough and the radeons seem better then they do on most other sites.

Incidentally in the [H] review thread I dared mention that most people don't have a 25*16 screen, and most want 60fps not 30 - well someone else mentioned it, Kyle told them to hit the X if that's what they thought - I just backed the original poster up. Others agreed, someone mentioned if you are spending $1000 on a 25*16 monitor you'll not be interested in less then a GTX 580 anyway cause what's the point in saving a few $ when you are spending that much on the screen.

This annoyed Kyle so much he wiped all my posts from that thread and banned my account from even looking at it. The guy seems unable to take criticism and is very unprofessional.

 

[Hallowed_Dragon]

....

Yeah sure. Kyle is unprofessional. Except 90% of the [H] thinks his reviews are the best on the web, including me.

 

[Dribble]

Yeah sure. Kyle is unprofessional. Except 90% of the [H] thinks his reviews are the best on the web, including me.

I did too, but he's doing a pretty good job of changing that opinion.

 

[3DVagabond]

Just fyi [H] use default quality settings not HQ which favours AMD cards since they nerfed IQ for more performance (most reputable sites use HQ which for cards this high end makes sense). They don't seem very keen to let anyone know that fact - several people asked in the past and they never replied, other forum posters said they were using HQ and weren't corrected (despite there being a huge thread on the subject), but in about page 17 of the reviews thread they let it slip they were using default quality settings.

Combine that with 25*16 only graphs and their fixation with 30fps being enough and the radeons seem better then they do on most other sites.

Incidentally in the [H] review thread I dared mention that most people don't have a 25*16 screen, and most want 60fps not 30 - well someone else mentioned it, Kyle told them to hit the X if that's what they thought - I just backed the original poster up. Others agreed, someone mentioned if you are spending $1000 on a 25*16 monitor you'll not be interested in less then a GTX 580 anyway cause what's the point in saving a few $ when you are spending that much on the screen.

This annoyed Kyle so much he wiped all my posts from that thread and banned my account from even looking at it. The guy seems unable to take criticism and is very unprofessional.

Wow! You're kidding? Banned you, did he? Well, go figure. :shrug:

 

[Dribble]

Wow! You're kidding? Banned you, did he? Well, go figure. :shrug:

Not a complete ban - just from the thread. I suspect I'll get a compete ban if I step out of line with my own opinion again....

I know it was kyle because when I checked my user cp to see if it was a full ban he was the second last person to look at it (it records the last 5 visitors to your profile).

 

[Hallowed_Dragon]

I did too, but he's doing a pretty good job of changing that opinion.

Ever since the launch of the 4xxx series I have been a lurker there so I can safely say that his benches are the closest to real world scenarios I have ever seen. I am sure he banned you for a good reason, seeing that others have opposing ideas, but expressed in a mannered fashion and don't get banned.

 

[toyota]

Wow! You're kidding? Banned you, did he? Well, go figure. :shrug:

Kyle perma banned me many years ago for complaining about the site having issues. and this was a time when they had TONS of issues with the forums not working properly.

I started another account and he banned that one a couple years later for asking about the validity of his power consumption results. he told me to find another review site and he deleted all of my posts too.

I started a 3rd account and he also banned me for jokingly criticizing a review. he misunderstood the point of my post but another mod contacted Kyle and had him let me back in.

he is very touchy at times and jumps the gun. he has no trouble calling people names and saying how he feels yet you will get banned pretty quickly by doing the same.