AMD 7850k with an R7 250 in dual graphics benchmark

[HOWITIS]

So if you remember my earlier thread I had a hard time getting this to work. Also, i'm not using the new 14.1 mantle drivers. So the score will probably increase when I'm using up to date drivers.

earlier thread getting help with dual graphics:


http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2367823

so 3d mark. toms hard ware shows stock amd 7850k getting doing this:

my scores are as follows

so amd 7850k only:

6744 3dmark score
10268 graphics
3064 physics


amd 7850k and r7 250
9465 3dmark score
23437 graphics
3067 physics.



not sure why the physics score is so low on the dual graphics set up. I'm sure I have driver issues as 3dmark doesn't even recognize the R7.

 

[Galatian]

So if you remember my earlier thread I had a hard time getting this to work. Also, i'm not using the new 14.1 mantle drivers. So the score will probably increase when I'm using up to date drivers.



earlier thread getting help with dual graphics:





http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2367823



so 3d mark. toms hard ware shows stock amd 7850k getting doing this:

my scores are as follows

so amd 7850k only:



6858 3dmark score

8665 graphics

3965 physics





amd 7850k and r7 250

9465 3dmark score

23437 graphics

3067 physics.







not sure why the physics score is so low on the dual graphics set up. I'm sure I have driver issues as 3dmark doesn't even recognize the R7.

I think 3DMark uses the CPU for physics calculations and not the GPU. Hence you get low scores, since the Kaveri CPU modules are mediocre at best.

 

[HOWITIS]

I think 3DMark uses the CPU for physics calculations and not the GPU. Hence you get low scores, since the Kaveri CPU modules are mediocre at best.

that would make since. if it is off the cpu than dual graphics wouldn't help

 

[Zstream]

Nice

 

[SPBHM]

physics is CPU only, as I said in your other topic, you should look for newer drivers with frame pacing support
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphi...and-R7-250-Dual-Graphics-Testing-Pacing-Fixed

 

[Stuka87]

physics is CPU only, as I said in your other topic, you should look for newer drivers with frame pacing support
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphi...and-R7-250-Dual-Graphics-Testing-Pacing-Fixed

His setup breaks with 14.1 drivers, so he has to wait for a newer version that works.

 

[Neal.a.nelson]

Nice

What he said, 2x.

Please keep us posted.
I'm following dual graphics, interested in A8-7600 + r7-250, preferably low-profile in my current, slim case.

 

[Red Hawk]

It's definitely a good thing that AMD is putting work into fixing Dual Graphics. When implemented properly, it can really be a selling point for its APUs as budget gaming machines, especially on laptops. You can benefit from the improved graphics of Kaveri/Trinity/Richland in combination with a lightweight discrete GPU like the R7-250. Up until now though, it really hasn't been a viable option thanks to the framepacing issues. Now it looks like I can actually consider it if I find myself in the market for a new laptop! Dual Graphics still have to wait for the fix to apply to DX9 games like Skyrim, it seems.

 

[SPBHM]

His setup breaks with 14.1 drivers, so he has to wait for a newer version that works.

in that case it's better to turn it off and use the 250 alone, until he can find drivers with frame pacing support (13.35b and higher I think), as the link I posted clearly shows,

What he said, 2x.

Please keep us posted.
I'm following dual graphics, interested in A8-7600 + r7-250, preferably low-profile in my current, slim case.

7770 alone will be slightly faster than 7850K+R7 250 GDDR5,

if you go down to 7600 + 250 DDR3(?) I would assume a single 7750 low profile is going to be superior in terms of price/performance!?

I think most 250s are not worth buying because the price difference to a 7770 is to small.

 

[Neal.a.nelson]

You will find many on here that agree. I'm following this because in my mind, there is potential. If you've already made up your mind, then I don't know what you're doing on this thread. I'm more interested in performance per watt than performance per dollar.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Yea, dual graphics sounds great, but I see the best applications in mobile, where you can perhaps use a low power, cooler running card.

On the desktop, it would be nice to try if you already had a gpu that you could pair with the APU, but if I were starting from scratch, I would either go with a cheaper cpu like the Athlon x4 750 or a faster cpu like an i5, and buy a more powerful discrete card. That way you can be sure of no issues in whatever game, especially at the current price of the 7850k.

 

[SPBHM]

You will find many on here that agree. I'm following this because in my mind, there is potential. If you've already made up your mind, then I don't know what you're doing on this thread. I'm more interested in performance per watt than performance per dollar.

I know what I'm doing here, so it's OK, I'm actually adding relevant information (even for your, if you are interested in finding the best option) and discussing, learning, and not wondering about what you are doing,

as for performance per watt,
because of the higher clock the R7 250 is not that amazing for this, even compared to the older and (slightly) faster 7750
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r7-240-and-250,3717-9.html
while the 240 and potentially the 250 DDR3 can have more interesting power usage numbers, but also significantly lower performance,

so I'm not sure the APU + GPU is going to hold a real advantage on that over the 7770 + more power efficient CPU, it's something worth testing for sure,

Yea, dual graphics sounds great, but I see the best applications in mobile, where you can perhaps use a low power, cooler running card.

On the desktop, it would be nice to try if you already had a gpu that you could pair with the APU, but if I were starting from scratch, I would either go with a cheaper cpu like the Athlon x4 750 or a faster cpu like an i5, and buy a more powerful discrete card. That way you can be sure of no issues in whatever game, especially at the current price of the 7850k.

I completely agree,
I see better potential for this on mobile, since you are basically forced to have an IGP for battery operation anyway, and I suppose it simplifies cooling over CPU + higher TDP chip, compared to this APU + GPU with reasonable TDP!?

for desktops, as long as you have faster cards for basically the same price as the slower "DG friendly" card it's not looking like the best option for most usage cases,

 

[Enigmoid]

The physics score i5/i3 looks off.

 

[SPBHM]

The physics score i5/i3 looks off.

yes,
i3 score matches a different source

http://cdn.pcper.com/files/imagecache/article_max_width/review/2014-01-13/igp-3dm13-cloudphysics.png

but 4670K scores are different
http://www.sweclockers.com/image/diagram/3845?k=dfe5b54a217444df54ce3b73b5f2c4ec

 

[Red Hawk]

in that case it's better to turn it off and use the 250 alone, until he can find drivers with frame pacing support (13.35b and higher I think), as the link I posted clearly shows,

7770 alone will be slightly faster than 7850K+R7 250 GDDR5,

if you go down to 7600 + 250 DDR3(?) I would assume a single 7750 low profile is going to be superior in terms of price/performance!?

I think most 250s are not worth buying because the price difference to a 7770 is to small.

Hmm. Those numbers don't quite add up. The 7850k has a fully enabled GPU component with 512 stream processors. A Radeon 250 has 384 stream processors, for a total of 896 stream processors (as a side note, that happens to be the same amount as on an Xbox One's APU). A Radeon HD 7770 GHz edition has 640 stream processors. The 7770's full 1 GHz would have an advantage over the 7850k's 720 MHz, but that can't account for the whole performance advantage. If accurate, perhaps this indicates there is yet more performance to be tapped out of Kaveri dual graphics.

You're certainly correct that a Radeon 250 is not a good purchase compared to a 7770. A quick check on Newegg showed that most 250s are hovering around $90-$100, while the least expensive 7770 on there was $100.

Assuming Kaveri can crossfire with 7000 series cards just as well as the new chips for the 200 series, I'd think that the 7750 makes for the best card to partner up with the 7850k. It has the same amount of stream processors and a lower clock speed, meaning it can sync up more naturally. The 7770 or even the 260 would be better than the 250.

 

[SPBHM]

Hmm. Those numbers don't quite add up. The 7850k has a fully enabled GPU component with 512 stream processors. A Radeon 250 has 384 stream processors, for a total of 896 stream processors (as a side note, that happens to be the same amount as on an Xbox One's APU). A Radeon HD 7770 GHz edition has 640 stream processors. The 7770's full 1 GHz would have an advantage over the 7850k's 720 MHz, but that can't account for the whole performance advantage. If accurate, perhaps this indicates there is yet more performance to be tapped out of Kaveri dual graphics.

You're certainly correct that a Radeon 250 is not a good purchase compared to a 7770. A quick check on Newegg showed that most 250s are hovering around $90-$100, while the least expensive 7770 on there was $100.

Assuming Kaveri can crossfire with 7000 series cards just as well as the new chips for the 200 series, I'd think that the 7750 makes for the best card to partner up with the 7850k. It has the same amount of stream processors and a lower clock speed, meaning it can sync up more naturally. The 7770 or even the 260 would be better than the 250.

why not? Crossfire normally doesn't have perfect scaling, and here we have 2 different GPUs which should make scaling even worse, and in you comparison you are ignoring the fact hat Kaveri have less than half the memory bandwidth from the other VGAs.

and the 512 SPs/32TMUs at 720MHz from Kaveri are still limited by that, also Kaveri and the R7 both have half the ROPs from the 7770.

the numbers look correct.

as far as I know crossfire between 7700s and Kaveri is not possible, but you never know, they could enable it, actually 7850K + 7750 DDR3 sounds ideal.

 

[Red Hawk]

why not? Crossfire normally doesn't have perfect scaling, and here we have 2 different GPUs which should make scaling even worse, and in you comparison you are ignoring the fact hat Kaveri have less than half the memory bandwidth from the other VGAs.

and the 512 SPs/32TMUs at 720MHz from Kaveri are still limited by that, also Kaveri and the R7 both have half the ROPs from the 7770.

the numbers look correct.

as far as I know crossfire between 7700s and Kaveri is not possible, but you never know, they could enable it, actually 7850K + 7750 DDR3 sounds ideal.

Is there a source on Kaveri and 7000 series dual graphics not being enabled? It should be quite possible. Trinity and 7000 series dual graphics was enabled, and those used different architectures.

 

[SPBHM]

Is there a source on Kaveri and 7000 series dual graphics not being enabled? It should be quite possible. Trinity and 7000 series dual graphics was enabled, and those used different architectures.

Trinity officially was 6500-6600 (some 6400 for mobile I think) only, it was also a different arch, but that doesn't mean anything, it's up to AMD to allow you to enable and do optimization work, like Llano couldn't work with a 5570 which had exactly the same specs/performance at the same clock, but could with a 6500-6600 (which had more sps),

later it was possible to enable DG with TrinityRichland and some GCN cards I know (but it only happened after AMD announced Richland would support DG with the 7730M, so they had official support for some GCN DG anyway, and their drivers allowed other combinations to work, without "official support"), but Frame Pacing was not a factor, I don't know if it makes a different in terms of their support,

as for a source, it was something I've heard, but google already gave me something,
http://wccftech.com/amd-kaveri-dual-graphics-works-ddr3-memory-based-radeon-r7-gpus/

 

[Knowname]

so apu alone is 6k, using the 750 AND APU is a measly 50% more?? That's just a little dissapointing :/ did you test your R7 250 alone as well or is the kaveri gpu just that much stronger?? Jaust for posterity what RAM do you use? Any over/ underclocking? I'd assume you'd say if there was any but just thought I'd ask.

I actually have an apu system on its way and I plan to buy 2 R7 videocards to Xfire whenever I find some for dirt cheap. I was thinking 250 but with your findings I may just go 240! My idea is dual graphics + Xfire, anybody know if that's possible??

Finally my goal is to find a cheaper more efficient 7950 kh/s killer in mining xD (even if it means going down to a 'free' 250kh/sec that's still pretty much free money!! lol) I will have to undervolt/ toy with the gpus and all that but... anyway have you any numbers mineingg with this baby? preferable stock/ just 750/ dual ggraphics.... but I'll take whatever you got I had hopes for 300+ kh/s but now I'm not expecting more than 200!! How disappointing....

I expect you to have ALL of the bugs ironed out by the time I put everything together! Chow my like minded comrade!

 

[Red Hawk]

Just to revisit this, apparently the R7-250x is a rebadged 7770, much like 280xs are rebadged 7970s and 270x is a rebadged 7870 (ok, "rebadged" isn't quite accurate. They are the same chip, but they have some clock speed improvements, boost implemented, etc. It's more akin to the initial 7970 and the 7970 GHz edition, not the Geforce 8800 GT to 9800 GT or the Radeon HD 5770 to 6770).

So assuming the 250x gets enabled for Dual Graphics with Kaveri, it would be the ideal choice for pairing up with a full 7850k. Also if the 250x is enabled it means it should be really easy to retroactively certify the 7750 and 7770, but who knows if AMD is going to do that.

 

[Will Robinson]

Just to revisit this, apparently the R7-250x is a rebadged 7770, much like 280xs are rebadged 7970s and 270x is a rebadged 7870 (ok, "rebadged" isn't quite accurate. They are the same chip, but they have some clock speed improvements, boost implemented, etc. It's more akin to the initial 7970 and the 7970 GHz edition, not the Geforce 8800 GT to 9800 GT or the Radeon HD 5770 to 6770).

So assuming the 250x gets enabled for Dual Graphics with Kaveri, it would be the ideal choice for pairing up with a full 7850k. Also if the 250x is enabled it means it should be really easy to retroactively certify the 7750 and 7770, but who knows if AMD is going to do that.

Here's some more info...
http://wccftech.com/amd-kaveri-dual-graphics-benchmarked-frame-pacing-fix/

 

[Red Hawk]

Here's some more info...
http://wccftech.com/amd-kaveri-dual-graphics-benchmarked-frame-pacing-fix/

That's the 7850k paired with the 384 core R7-250. The 250x was just launched, and has 640 shaders.

 

[SPBHM]

Just to revisit this, apparently the R7-250x is a rebadged 7770, much like 280xs are rebadged 7970s and 270x is a rebadged 7870 (ok, "rebadged" isn't quite accurate. They are the same chip, but they have some clock speed improvements, boost implemented, etc. It's more akin to the initial 7970 and the 7970 GHz edition, not the Geforce 8800 GT to 9800 GT or the Radeon HD 5770 to 6770).

So assuming the 250x gets enabled for Dual Graphics with Kaveri, it would be the ideal choice for pairing up with a full 7850k. Also if the 250x is enabled it means it should be really easy to retroactively certify the 7750 and 7770, but who knows if AMD is going to do that.

250x is 100% the same as the 7770, while the 280x have different clock compared to the 7970GHz or 7970 (and the 6770 had firmware updates for the HDMI support)

I wouldn't call it ideal for one reason, the performance gap is big, so the gain over the 7770 alone is probably small (compared to let's say a 250 DDR3 + 7850K scaling), and you are adding the potential issues of crossfire.

simple comparison

250x = 16ROPs/640SPs/40TMUs at 1000MHz 72GB/s memory
7850K = 8ROps/512SPs/32TMUs at 720MHz up to 34GB/s memory

BUT, as long as it gives some performance gain (real performance gain, with frame pacing working), it's something to consider, because the 250x alone for $100 is a decent card, and if you can add "free" performance from the APU is great, as long as it doesn't mean paying a lot more money for the APU, which at the moment is the case, because the 7850K is way overpriced (just look at the 5800K release price! wtf AMD) so it's better to save the money with a CPU as good as it (but with no IGP or slower IGP) and buy a 260x with the difference (or something even faster), which certainly is going to beat the DG solution anyway, but as mentioned before, if you already have the APU and see this a an upgrade option it can be more compelling,

to make DG work they need to lower prices,

 

[hungtran]

Wonder what Mantle + Dual Graphics performance is. Given that Microcenter is selling A10-7850K + motherboard + BF4 code for $129.99 with $10 rebate, this becomes a very good option for people already with HD7770 or 250 cards. Since the chip could cost as little as $60 if you sell the BF4 and motherboard.

 

[R0H1T]

not sure why the physics score is so low on the dual graphics set up. I'm sure I have driver issues as 3dmark doesn't even recognize the R7.

Which version of 3dmark are you using btw there was an update released last week so you may wanna upgrade your current installation accordingly ~ 3DMark 1.0.132

The drivers as well I guess ~ AMD Catalyst Mantle Graphics Driver 14.1 Beta 1.6