AMD A10-5800K preview - iGPU side only

[VulgarDisplay]

Has anyone been able to find a hybrid crossfire review on the a10-5800K in gaming? I think that's something really worth looking into when people are talking about buying a cheap intel + discrete GPU.

How does the a10-5800k perform in comparison when it has a GPU it can crossfire with added to the system and it still costs the same as the cheap Intel + discrete solution. I'm not sure how crossfire scaling is on Hybrid crossfire solutions, but even if it's only 50% it still goes a long way toward upping playability at 1080p, and a GPU you can crossfire with these iGPU's is far less than $100.

I just can't find any reviews on this anywhere.

 

[Madpacket]

Has anyone been able to find a hybrid crossfire review on the a10-5800K in gaming? I think that's something really worth looking into when people are talking about buying a cheap intel + discrete GPU.

How does the a10-5800k perform in comparison when it has a GPU it can crossfire with added to the system and it still costs the same as the cheap Intel + discrete solution. I'm not sure how crossfire scaling is on Hybrid crossfire solutions, but even if it's only 50% it still goes a long way toward upping playability at 1080p, and a GPU you can crossfire with these iGPU's is far less than $100.

I just can't find any reviews on this anywhere.

"http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/46157-amd-a10-5800k-dual-graphics-evaluation/"
"http://www.hardware.fr/articles/878-10/gpu-f1-2011-civilization-v-battlefield-3.html"

 

[VulgarDisplay]

"http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/46157-amd-a10-5800k-dual-graphics-evaluation/"
"http://www.hardware.fr/articles/878-10/gpu-f1-2011-civilization-v-battlefield-3.html"

Well there goes that theory lol.

Either crossfire doesn't scale, or the iGPU's memory bandwidth is holding back the discrete card in crossfire.

I had it in my head that this would be a good way to get decent performance for dirt cheap, but the reality is that you apparently lose performance more often than you gain it with hybrid crossfire.

 

[Abwx]

Even if the games were single threaded, the performance gap seems to be way out of proportion. Very odd.

Are the optimizations referring to the igp only? Why not enabled on all pc's and require 'optimized' s/w (igp driver?)

They are optimized for dual thread in fact.

I think it s not a matter of gpu but of CPU s code optimization
for Intel CPUs , hence it is how the game s code was compiled.

Ah, therein lies the answer. So there were some specific optimizations to be made to make those spurious low frame rendering events not occur.

Still though, I am curious as to what exactly causes such a delay. Is it truly on-processor as in a cache bottleneck or the pipeline stalling out with branch mispredicts? Or is it something even more silly like bus contention causing a delay in getting data from the CPU to the GPU?

It is just such a binary situation when looking at those two graphs. Truly the have's versus the have not's. I can't help but wondering what special pixie dust the Intel chips have that the AMD chips are lacking for that to be the case.

It can't simply be a case of "IPC is too low" otherwise it would simply increase the minimum FPS linearly across the board, but it doesn't. The AMD systems truly get markedly lower lows in those games versus the Intel rigs. Like they have a poorly written driver that is causing DPC's or something silly like that.

As i said above i think that s a matter of how was the game s
code compiled since the GPU is not the limiting factor.

But perhaps the specialists of code optimization that hang
by there could give us some clues.

 

[Mallibu]

"http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/46157-amd-a10-5800k-dual-graphics-evaluation/"
"http://www.hardware.fr/articles/878-10/gpu-f1-2011-civilization-v-battlefield-3.html"

So, hybrid CF sucks.
Therefore Pentium G620 + 7750 = better solution in gaming. If gaming doesn't matter then no need to buy APU.

Techreport summarizes it pretty well:

"Even a relatively affordable card like the Radeon HD 7750, which sells for as little as $89 at Newegg, will run today's games competently at two-megapixel resolutions and decent quality levels. We're talking about a vastly superior experience to the one these integrated graphics processors can muster. What's more, the Radeon HD 7750's TDP is just 55W. Add that to the 55W of the Core i3-3225, and you've only exceeded the A10-5800K's max power rating by 10W. In terms of power draw, noise, and cooling demands, the two options will be practically the same.

Forgive me if this sounds like our Llano review on replay, but it's hard to see where these Trinity APUs fit into the desktop PC landscape. Their 100W TDP disqualifies them from all-in-one systems, small-form-factor enclosures, and home theater PCs. Not being able to slide into those types of systems, where discrete graphics cards aren't practical, largely negates AMD's advantage in integrated graphics performance. The 65W version of the A10 or A8 would be workable in a larger HTPC case, but you'll be giving up performance in order to fit into that envelope—and it'll still draw 10W more at peak than the Core i3-3225. Perhaps in that scenario, if you planned to do some gaming at 720p, Trinity's faster graphics would be the deciding factor.

The only remaining landing place for these 100W APUs is a budget desktop PC—but again, the Core i3-3225 will give you better single-threaded performance and lower power draw than the A10-5800K for just a few bucks more. I'm having a hard time envisioning a system guide build where the A10 makes more sense than the Core i3. What's the concept? A very budget desktop PC in which the user does a small amount of gaming with non-casual titles? That needle is hard to thread."

 

[Abwx]

Dual graphic is game dependant but it doesnt matter for the usuals trolls ,
they just throw quotes wich are blatantly the ones of clueless people
who didnt bother to check the thing...

Let s look the results on a serious site :

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/878-10/gpu-f1-2011-civilization-v-battlefield-3.html

 

[Madpacket]

It's hit or miss really. CF hybrid works well for some games like BF3 and Diablo 3 where it actually out performs the 7750 but fails miserably at others like Civ 5 or Batman. The potential is there but the driver immaturity is a little scary.

I still think these APU's are best for low power gaming / HTPC's in small form factors where you don't have to worry about adding in other components.

Now we just need some ITX boards!

 

[Mallibu]

Dual graphic is game dependant but it doesnt matter for the usuals trolls ,
they just throw quotes wich are blatantly the ones of clueless people
who didnt bother to check the thing...

Let s look the results on a serious site :

Techreport is serious. You however, are not. You forgot this one:

In the review you posted, it summarizes the results with the 7750 having 220% the performance of the A5800 GPU:
Therefore, since GPU is what matters in games (excluding BF3, but that's just one game out of hundreds), G620 + 7750 = almost double the performance of what the 5800APU is gonna give you.

 

[kernelc]

So, hybrid CF sucks.
Therefore Pentium G620 + 7750 = better solution in gaming. If gaming doesn't matter then no need to buy APU.

Techreport summarizes it pretty well:

"Even a relatively affordable card like the Radeon HD 7750, which sells for as little as $89 at Newegg, will run today's games competently at two-megapixel resolutions and decent quality levels. We're talking about a vastly superior experience to the one these integrated graphics processors can muster. What's more, the Radeon HD 7750's TDP is just 55W. Add that to the 55W of the Core i3-3225, and you've only exceeded the A10-5800K's max power rating by 10W. In terms of power draw, noise, and cooling demands, the two options will be practically the same.

Forgive me if this sounds like our Llano review on replay, but it's hard to see where these Trinity APUs fit into the desktop PC landscape. Their 100W TDP disqualifies them from all-in-one systems, small-form-factor enclosures, and home theater PCs. Not being able to slide into those types of systems, where discrete graphics cards aren't practical, largely negates AMD's advantage in integrated graphics performance. The 65W version of the A10 or A8 would be workable in a larger HTPC case, but you'll be giving up performance in order to fit into that envelope—and it'll still draw 10W more at peak than the Core i3-3225. Perhaps in that scenario, if you planned to do some gaming at 720p, Trinity's faster graphics would be the deciding factor.

The only remaining landing place for these 100W APUs is a budget desktop PC—but again, the Core i3-3225 will give you better single-threaded performance and lower power draw than the A10-5800K for just a few bucks more. I'm having a hard time envisioning a system guide build where the A10 makes more sense than the Core i3. What's the concept? A very budget desktop PC in which the user does a small amount of gaming with non-casual titles? That needle is hard to thread."

Hi,
while I can see your point, I think that the Pentium G620 is a too much handicapped chip. Any Core-i3 or A10 5700K should generally be preferable.

Regards.

 

[Abwx]

Techreport is serious. You however, are not. You forgot this one:

In the review you posted, it summarizes the results with the 7750 having 220% the performance of the A5800 GPU:
Therefore, since GPU is what matters in games (excluding BF3, but that's just one game out of hundreds), G620 + 7750 = almost double the performance of what the 5800APU is gonna give you.

Funny...

220% is 3.2 x the perf.....

Btw , it is Hardware.fr , wich was linked by a poster above.


Also , i voluntarly posted the higher definition where the difference
is logically the higher but with one res below there must be cases where
a 7750 is not needed at all , either it brings no big gain or more
simply the A10 alone framerate is already enough.

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/878-10/gpu-f1-2011-civilization-v-battlefield-3.html

 

[Mallibu]

Hi,
while I can see your point, I think that the Pentium G620 is a too much handicapped chip. Any Core-i3 or A10 5700K should generally be preferable.

Regards.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/406?vs=676

Outside BF3 MP, it can pretty much hold his own in today's games.
Pentium G620 is faster in all 4 games than an A5600K in the anandtech bench.

 

[ShintaiDK]

220% is 3.2 x the perf.....

No its not, back to school with you

 

[AtenRa]

Next Intel 3570K/3770K thread i will troll with APU performance, lets see if people will like that.

 

[Abwx]

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/406?vs=676

Outside BF3 MP, it can pretty much hold his own in today's games.
Pentium G620 is faster in all 4 games than an A5600K in the anandtech bench.

Yes and in one game the A10 5600 is even 10% faster then the 5800.
Great Anand s benchmarks....

That said , beware , games are going increasingly multithreaded.

In one word your proposition doesnt hold as far as future proof
is a concern..

Edit : did you look at all the other benchs ?..

The pentiumG620 perform extremely poorly.
Doesnt CPU perfs matter no more ?..

 

[ShintaiDK]

Next Intel 3570K/3770K thread i will troll with APU performance, lets see if people will like that.

So business as usual? FX/APU, same behaviour.

 

[AtenRa]

Yea, suddenly the Core i3 is not even mentioned anymore, Celerons are the new super duper Intel CPUs.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Yes and in one game the A10 5600 is even 10% faster then the 5800.
Great Anand s benchmarks....

That said , beware , games are going increasingly multithreaded.

In one word your proposition doesnt hold as far as future proof
is a concern..

Edit : did you look at all the other benchs ?..

The pentiumG620 perform extremely poorly.
Doesnt CPU perfs matter no more ?..

Oh, and an igpu which cannot even play some popular current games(BF3, Witcher2, Metro 2033) at 1080p at even the lowest settings and requires low to med settings for other modern titles is "future proof"? I guess it is if your future is low to medium settings on only selected games that are not graphically demanding.

 

[Mallibu]

Yea, suddenly the Core i3 is not even mentioned anymore, Celerons are the new super duper Intel CPUs.

You were screaming all this time, saying that getting a "good enough" cpu (FX in your case) and invest the money in GPU was the way to go in gaming.
Now, that a Pentium G620 + 7750 has 2x the performance in gaming than the 5800k, isn't that the case anymore? Suddenly we need good CPUs and crap iGPUs for gaming?

 

[Abwx]

Oh, and an igpu which cannot even play some popular current games(BF3, Witcher2, Metro 2033) at 1080p at even the lowest settings and requires low to med settings for other modern titles is "future proof"? I guess it is if your future is low to medium settings on only selected games that are not graphically demanding.

It wont be worse in the future and it will even improve thanks
to greater parralelism in games.

The P620G is already maxed out on the other side.

Besides , as said above it performs extremely poorly on
the CPU front so i can conclude that you re ready to shave
drasticaly the CPU perfs to perhaps gain a little something
in a FEW games.

As said , look at the benchs at Anand on the link above
and you ll see how a poor set you are promoting ,
basicaly it can play games barely and it s bad at anything else.

Edit :
According to Intel HD3000 is made for gaming in laptops ,
helped by "optimisations"....

http://software.intel.com/sites/def...6/secured-epic-solutionbrief-327909-001us.pdf

 

[Ferzerp]

30fps not good enough?
For a shooter, and if you are playing at a high level, ok, we'll accept it, 30 might not be enough (I know 30fps is ok for me, but maybe I am a lousy player) However, RTSs, MMOs and other genres are perfectly ok with 30fps.

I am curious, what setup do you have? For how you have been talking, I am assuming you have an X79 platform with 2 HD7970 GHz ed in crossfire (or dual GTX680 in SLI) driving dual 30in 2560 x 1600. What do you play? What are your "real game" settings? 5120 x 1600 at 120fps, 8x MSAA, 16AF? Or are you another one of those who is lecturing people about gaming, but have a GTX460 or HD6850?

The other guys have already provided plenty of graphs showing several games running at good framerates. Your claim of the HD7660G not being good enough is false. Guild wars 2 and skyrim run acceptable on a HD6450. Granted, you are playing on low, but you can play them. Diablo 3 and Wow also run very well. Most of the game developers code lightly so a lot of machines can play the games. Metro 2033 and BF3 are exceptions rather than norm.

So, show us, what do you have and what settings you can get? What settings are the minimum you want? I am curious.

Oh, is this epeen time?

I have two 680s. One is a DirectCU TOP 3 slot, the other is a reference card with a sealed water cooler on it. I also use a 3770k @ 4.4Ghz (got a lemon) that I keep under 70C even under a real load (it never hits 60C in games) at 1.24V after a razor blade and sand job. I also use a U3011 monitor, because the silly monitor options you have listed would result in bezels in my face (as well as unacceptible framerates). No compromises.

Minimum I would want? 1680x1050 with medium for pretty much all games, though likely I'd make that 1080p instead. That's only half the pixels my system drives now.

And if you really, really, want to know, I also have a Dell precision m4600 with a Quadro 2000M (a card that is rated far above this integrated piece of mediacrity per notebookcheck.net) in it and a 1080p screen. I wouldn't wish gaming on it on my worst enemy. It can play silly little games, just like any igpu laptop could do, but give it a real game, and it's not very playable unless you like slideshows.

Want to try to attack me as a person and what I play with some more, or would you like to keep trying to explain how 30fps is "good for gaming"?

 

[TerryMathews]

And if you really, really, want to know, I also have a Dell precision m4600 with a Quadro 2000M (a card that is rated far above this integrated piece of mediacrity per notebookcheck.net) in it and a 1080p screen. I wouldn't wish gaming on it on my worst enemy. It can play silly little games, just like any igpu laptop could do, but give it a real game, and it's not very playable unless you like slideshows.

How can it be rated higher if it's that slow?

FWIW, I can play D3 and HL2 and WoW on my Llano laptop, and it's a quite enjoyable experience.

 

[AtenRa]

You were screaming all this time, saying that getting a "good enough" cpu (FX in your case) and invest the money in GPU was the way to go in gaming.
Now, that a Pentium G620 + 7750 has 2x the performance in gaming than the 5800k, isn't that the case anymore? Suddenly we need good CPUs and crap iGPUs for gaming?

FX is a CPU, Trinity A10-5800K is an APU. I believe you know the difference dont ya ??

Since there is no Intel APU to compete against the AMD Trinity in the same price point you people trying to promote the dual core Celerons for gaming.

Again this thread is not about Discrete graphics but APUs and iGPU, if you like to talk about Discrete GPUs open a new thread.

 

[kernelc]

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/406?vs=676

Outside BF3 MP, it can pretty much hold his own in today's games.
Pentium G620 is faster in all 4 games than an A5600K in the anandtech bench.

It depends on the specific game being tested. Here you can find techreport's review: http://techreport.com/review/23662/amd-a10-5800k-and-a8-5600k-trinity-apus-reviewed/4

The same review shows that Pentium-class CPU are generally way slower then Trinity and Corei3s.

Regards.

 

[inf64]

Yea, suddenly the Core i3 is not even mentioned anymore, Celerons are the new super duper Intel CPUs.

Yeah, they need a "price" argument since i3 is well matched on CPU side and badly beaten on GPU side by A10/A8. Celeron fits well there with it's bargain prices but it's just slow CPU which lacks basic ISA extensions and features that A10 and i3 have.

 

[frozentundra123456]

It wont be worse in the future and it will even improve thanks
to greater parralelism in games.

The P620G is already maxed out on the other side.

Besides , as said above it performs extremely poorly on
the CPU front so i can conclude that you re ready to shave
drasticaly the CPU perfs to perhaps gain a little something
in a FEW games.

As said , look at the benchs at Anand on the link above
and you ll see how a poor set you are promoting ,
basicaly it can play games barely and it s bad at anything else.

Edit :
According to Intel HD3000 is made for gaming in laptops ,
helped by "optimisations"....

http://software.intel.com/sites/def...6/secured-epic-solutionbrief-327909-001us.pdf

I am not proposing using a pentium. What I am saying, which you conveniently ignore, is that the igp in trinity is barely adequate for some less demanding current titles and thus will be far from future proof.