Amd apu love....

[ericlp]

And speaking of Power Supplies.... Any Power Supply can be a fire hazard smoked a few in my day. That's why they are enclosed in a "METAL" housing... Oh yeah... Seen a high end power and cooling supply take out a few parts and a stock junk one die and do nothing... And vice verse...It all depends... Back in the day the quality was determined on the weight on the PSU. Of course you should ditch the chinese PSU's that hung up and have solder thrown at them for the masses. But....

What you should really need is a UPS! unclean power is the worse. I don't care what supply you got, if you getting brown outs and surges in your power it's gonna die... That's an advantage of being on solar. Nice clean power.

And yes I own TWO killawatt meters. Currently I only suck down 1.5-2KW's a day! I'd love to see people pull that off with a full size 18 CUFT refrigerator with an ice maker. Of course living in Hawaii I don't need heat nor AC. The water is solar heated (passive) and I got a propane burners for the stove and oven.

Have a Great day everyone! Don't stress out on the numbers. Other wise I might just consider getting a E-350 and motherboard where the chip runs at 18 watts with the GPU! If I gotta add another panel for the A10 so be it.

 

[Torn Mind]

I think it is evident that this fellow is either is mentally impaired or just a troll. No matter the case, he's proven about as intelligent as well...lesser animals, to put it nicely. Since he cannot see nor comprehend the words "total system power consumption", it is clear that is the case.

However, for the power consumption tests we re-enable everything in order to get a real-world power draw. The power draw is measured via a power meter at the wall, so the numbers below are of total system power draw from the mains, not the power consumption of a CPU itself. Measuring the power draw of any individual component in a PC is tricky to impossible to acheive.

It is absolute rubbish that he cannot comprehend what total system power consumption is. It includes everything that the PSU feeds, including RAM, hard drives, GPUs(which the i3 system does have), optical drives, wattage wasted die to efficiency, etc.

As for you pathetic comments regarding PSU quality, we'll rationally read reviews from guys who actually stress test the goods and understand the electromechanics rather than believing a bunch of foolish assumptions such as they're made in China. You don' t have a clue about noise and ripple, or that cheap UPS only output shitty modified sine waves instead of true sine waves. You don't want to learn, then you can sit on your ignorant ass with that 65% efficient PSU and wonder why you're not getting 32 watts on your Kill-a-Watt at idle.

You just want to save 80 bucks, that's all, and you're being a moron and a complete ass about it.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

In fact, all of your APU "wins" except possibly price are based on falsehoods. Intel and a 7750 idles around 20 watts--less than the 32 watts that the A10 idles at. The A10 is not more power efficient because it idles at a higher power and uses the same maximum power--for only 4/7 the power of the i3 and the 7750. And since both setups have the same max power, you don't need a better PSU.

"Intel and a 7750 idles around 20 watts--less than the 32 watts that the A10 idles at." So read re-read the charts again. We are just talking about CPU and APU no where does it say that there is a 7750 plugged into the mix."

Sorry, just have to respond to this. That an i3+7750 is idling @ 20W is a flatout impossibility. My own Celeron G465+B75 ITX board consumes ~ 20W idle (at the wall, with PoS powerbrick), and that's the almost the lowest power LGA-1155 CPU you can buy. I do not believe for half a second that an i3, that has TWICE the cores and a HD7750 which idles @ 10W could under any circumstances get below 25W even with an ultra efficient (80+ Platinum) PSU...

my 2c...

Edit;

Have a Great day everyone! Don't stress out on the numbers. Other wise I might just consider getting a E-350 and motherboard where the chip runs at 18 watts with the GPU! If I gotta add another panel for the A10 so be it.

Just don't. The E-350 will feel slow, no matter what you do with it. If you're really serious about low-power, you should look at the Intel CPU's with a T at the end. They are guaranteed not to pull more then 35W(dual-cores)/45W(quadcores)...

Some of them are only available in tray however, so you will need an aftermarket cooler for them...

 

[ericlp]

Torn that was uncalled for. Please do us all a favor and stop posting in my thread...

Were all here to learn all we can about this new tech. Your on the wrong track and next time try to have something worth posting not some dribble you know nothing about.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/349870-28-5800k-3225

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/354593-28-5800k-igpu-3220-dgpu-consumes-power

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/350172-28-5800k-xfired-6670-3220-7770

Conclusion?

Comparing the A10 to a i3 plus a 7550 or 7770 is just too close to call...

However I fund this hell of interesting!

Paring an A10 with a 7770! Check out the specs...

http://www.pureoverclock.com/Review-detail/amd-trinity-a10-5800k-review/14/


Summary

As seen today, Trinity brings two worlds together with Fusion and Piledriver. AMD focused on the instruction set since Bulldozer’s release and suprisingly, they bring a much more rounded APU (Acccelerated Processing Unit) to the table. From performance to efficiency, AMD has manufactured a very good mainstream processing unit coupled with on-die 7660D graphics.

Comparing the A10-5800K with Intel’s IvyBridge i3 3220K shows AMD with a solid win over their rival. We compared out of box performance between the A10-5800K and the i3 3220 and AMD dominated, primarily in graphics. AMD’s 7660D on-die GPU is far superior to Intel’s 4000 graphics. In every benchmark, the 7660D crushes Intel. In proocessor performance, the A10-8150 trades blows with Intel’s 3220. With AMD’s hard work, they figured how to improve on Bulldozer with their newPiledriver cores. If the trend continues, Steamroller should improve on Piledriver, and although it may not beat IvyBridge’s top tier processors, it brings AMD into this decade. Although we were skeptical, Trinity lived up to it’s billing in our opinion.

AMD’s strategy continues to pursue the mainstream market and the mobile sector which some thought, did not make sense. Let’s face it, margins are just not the same as the high end arena but then again, AMD has a product that may surprise the skeptics. Dissecting target customers, we see excellent potential for OEM manufacturers. Looking at our viewers (who usually build their own systems), we see the A10-5800K going into second systems more often and for some, a primary system for family members or folks on a budget. The APU can be laid out three ways: stand alone 7660D, crossfire 7660D + add on 6670, or a higher end discrete graphics card add-on. This gives our viewers a system priced as low as $400, or a step up system in crossfire at the $500-$600 range, or a respectable all around build at approximately $700. Any way you cut it, the A10-5800K will not break the bank and gives you options. Either way, looking on the cheap or spending a bit more, the A10-5800K shows that it will handle eveyday home computing and will be excelllent for what mainstreme users seek. For You Tube, videos and movies, and even some light gaming Trinity has what it takes. Can you say HTPC (Home Theater Personal Computer)? This could be the perfect fit.

In conclusion, the AMD A10-5800K may not be the juggernaut performance junkies look for, but it provides an excellent all around computing solution for many. At just $122, it is less than the $140 price tag of its predecessor, the A8-3870K, while performing better. If you’re looking for an inexpensive solution for home computing, the AMD A10-5800K should be a serious consideration, earning Pure Overclock’s Editor’s Chice Award.

Pretty much nails home what I've been trying to say all along. There is No tip of 75% or faster or slower ... Whatever you choose is just too close to say one is better than the other ... Yeah maybe the i3 is better at single thread apps and the A10 better for multi thread... But not really by a long shot... There isn't a huge lead on either side and for watts yeah one preforms better at full load while the other is better at idle... So it's a wash really....

Bottom Line? If there is one....

A10 or a i3 with a 7770 --- Take your pick they will both work great for low power and low/mid gaming experience. I hope I helped other in their search to come up with a decent decision between an APU,

Have a great day and if I pissed anyone off! Ah well, get over it quick!

 

[mfenn]

Sorry, just have to respond to this. That an i3+7750 is idling @ 20W is a flatout impossibility. My own Celeron G465+B75 ITX board consumes ~ 20W idle (at the wall, with PoS powerbrick), and that's the almost the lowest power LGA-1155 CPU you can buy. I do not believe for half a second that an i3, that has TWICE the cores and a HD7750 which idles @ 10W could under any circumstances get below 25W even with an ultra efficient (80+ Platinum) PSU...

my 2c...

We're talking about the CPU and GPU (IGP alone) being at 20W. What you're measuring includes everything else on the motherboard, drives, and PSU inefficiency. So yeah, 20W sounds about right to me.

 

[mfenn]

Torn that was uncalled for. Please do us all a favor and stop posting in my thread...

Were all here to learn all we can about this new tech. Your on the wrong track and next time try to have something worth posting not some dribble you know nothing about.

I'll admit that he was a little harsh, but his point is still valid. I see two options:

(A) You clearly missed in both articles that the total system power consumption was being measured, not the power draw of the CPU alone.

(B) You saw it and purposefully ignored it.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/349870-28-5800k-3225

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/354593-28-5800k-igpu-3220-dgpu-consumes-power

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/350172-28-5800k-xfired-6670-3220-7770

Conclusion?

Comparing the A10 to a i3 plus a 7550 or 7770 is just too close to call...

To close to call in what respect?

Power consumption? Sure.
Performance? No way. The i3 and 7750 is clearly superior. Go back and look at the links that I posted in reply #24.

However I fund this hell of interesting!

Paring an A10 with a 7770! Check out the specs...

http://www.pureoverclock.com/Review-detail/amd-trinity-a10-5800k-review/14/

Because comparing an A10 with a discrete GPU to an i3 with only the IGP makes a whole lot of sense.

 

[bononos]

The bright spot of an A10 is the speed of its integrated graphics which is much faster than the i3 but even then its about as fast as a 6450/6550(?), slower than a 6570 and can only be x-fired with a 6670 or lower. Apart from the igp the trinity cpus are comparable with Intel's dual core+hyperthreading cpus except that trinity's power consumption is considerably higher. So it only makes sense for someone who doesn't want a discrete card and is satisfied with low settings for gaming (that is to say, not a gamer) and doesn't really use the pc for anything much (low throttle most of the time) or isn't bothered about the heat/power consumption.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

We're talking about the CPU and GPU (IGP alone) being at 20W. What you're measuring includes everything else on the motherboard, drives, and PSU inefficiency. So yeah, 20W sounds about right to me.

If we're only talking i3+iGPU then you're right of course... ()

 

[zCypher]

OP, if I were you I would listen to mfenn and the others. They've helped me and offer excellent and more importantly well-informed advice to people here all the time, for a long time now. To give you my own 2 cents based on my experience, I owned a Lenovo x120e which had the E350, and I recently built an HTPC with an i3 in it. The i3 system completely and utterly obliterates the E350 in all aspects of performance, there's absolutely no comparing the two whatsoever.

The i3 is virtually indistinguishable from my 1100T in most normal, every day tasks. The E350 on the other hand was almost unusably slow for basic things like opening Firefox and using more than 2-3 tabs. Even with 8GB RAM and an SSD, the E350 was still painfully slow (cannot stream Netflix HD - so much for using it as a media system). That's why I got rid of it.

If your prime concern is power usage, I think the helpful people here have already shed some light on that. It seems clear that the i3 system will actually give you a much better experience without sucking out all the power.

Edit: to clarify, I'm not comparing the i3 to E350. I just had to express how bad of an impression that chip left me with.

 

[T_Yamamoto]

Op is stupid.

Also laughing at the "hardcore gamer with a 1k ps" power supply

Please enjoy a multi-week vacation in culmination of your terrible posting
-ViRGE

 

[mfenn]

If we're only talking i3+iGPU then you're right of course... ()

7750 is only 5W long idle, so the equation doesn't drastically change if you put one of those in. Especially not relative to the performance that you have on tab with a discrete card. Modern GPUs are a long way away from idle power hogs like the 4870.

 

[Sleepingforest]

And speaking of Power Supplies.... Any Power Supply can be a fire hazard smoked a few in my day. That's why they are enclosed in a "METAL" housing... Oh yeah... Seen a high end power and cooling supply take out a few parts and a stock junk one die and do nothing... And vice verse...It all depends... Back in the day the quality was determined on the weight on the PSU. Of course you should ditch the chinese PSU's that hung up and have solder thrown at them for the masses. But....

What you should really need is a UPS! unclean power is the worse. I don't care what supply you got, if you getting brown outs and surges in your power it's gonna die... That's an advantage of being on solar. Nice clean power.

And yes I own TWO killawatt meters. Currently I only suck down 1.5-2KW's a day! I'd love to see people pull that off with a full size 18 CUFT refrigerator with an ice maker. Of course living in Hawaii I don't need heat nor AC. The water is solar heated (passive) and I got a propane burners for the stove and oven.

Have a Great day everyone! Don't stress out on the numbers. Other wise I might just consider getting a E-350 and motherboard where the chip runs at 18 watts with the GPU! If I gotta add another panel for the A10 so be it.

Allow me to illustrate the difference between a quality PSU and a garbage one, and how the garbage one can easily light up your components:

This review is of the Hercules 500W PSU. It is $20.

This review is of the XFX Core Edition 550W power supply. It is $55.

If you read through the entire first review, you will come to a part about disassembling the PSU to determine the quality of the components. This is what Jonnyguru has to say about the cheapo Hercules PSU:

Checking out at all this heat damage, you might be surprised that our exhaust temps were so low. There's one simple explanation for it, though. The unit got no cooling where it mattered. The secondary is in a hot spot, where there was no airflow. Another reason it's a safety hazard... they just stuck a big fan in there thinking the unit would automatically keep cooler than an 80mm at the exhaust. Wrongo. No airflow to the right parts, parts overheat, parts catch fire, fire spreads to the fan, fan seizes, fire spreads further, case melts... see how this goes?

Do you understand why spending an extra $30 would be a good idea? It's not about weight or what you believe are "high-end" parts. It's about the quality of components inside, the engineering decisions for airflow and heat transfer, and not even a "metal case" is impervious to fire. I'm pretty sure molten metal will do significant damage to your home, right?

Also, a UPS provides far inferior electricity to what you should normally get from solar or a well-functioning power grid. It's meant for you to save your work and shut down, not run indefinitely.

 

[ericlp]

I dunno.... How hard is it for someone to compare and run the #'s between an A10 and an i3 with a 7750 or a 7770... ????? I'm gonna wait for the numbers to come out for that first... Hopefully they will not only do just games but watts power test. Everything I read I get mixed reviews on this. I really don't want to pair up a GPU with an APU. If I gotta do that... might as well just buy an i3/7770 combo. I wouldn't even look at the 7750. Since it in performance between the 7750 and 7770 is kinda of a lot.

So...... Someone's gotta have some solid #'s on this. Maybe in a few weeks or so.

Ignoring (system vs CPU)... yes... I know but if your gonna build two system tests your still gonna use the hardware p/s mobo ram etc...etc... so when you put it all together your going to expect that kinda power draw from the APU/CPU. Am I right? Or is a different brand of MOBO really gonna make that much difference? Every test does system not CPU and every test I've seen puts the i3 on top on power consumption..

Oh well, I'll wait for a REAL comparison I guess. So many people say this or that ... There is no test out yet but I would think I am not the only one that has these questions. I wanna see some graphs between em first before I say I am wrong or right... My conclusion is Maybe... But no one knows for sure.

Time will tell...

P/S I'd like to know you you think a 7660D is = to a 640 or what ever you linked to? Did you just make that up or do you have some REAL numbers to back it up with?

 

[T_Yamamoto]

Intel with GPU>APU
Any day

I'm not sure what you're trying to do but you aren't going to win. A CPU+discrete GPU combo (depends what it is) will beat an apu any day.

 

[T_Yamamoto]

http://m.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html

Here you go 7660d=gt630
The 7750 and 7770 are as couple steps above it

 

[Torn Mind]

http://m.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html

Here you go 7660d=gt630
The 7750 and 7770 are as couple steps above it

Once upon a time a couple months ago, I didn't know about video card nomenclatures. Well, now I do thanks to google and sources such as the following.

Currently, ATI names each card by generation, series, and by performance. The first number is the generation number (e.g. 5000) and is related to the chipset used by the video card. The second number indicates the series quality in the generation. Currently, a 7970 would be a high-end card, whereas a 7570 would be a budget card. The charts below describe this in further depth, as well as how it has changed over time. The third digit is the relative quality within a series; for example, a 5850 is less powerful than a 5870. Typically, a card of a higher series will always have more processing power than a card in a lower series, even if the relative quality is better (a 5770 will be outperformed by a 5850). Originally, suffixes were used to determine relative quality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon#Nomenclature


http://www.videocardcomparisons.com/reviews/ati-radeon-naming-scheme-explained/

The current series nomenclature begins with the HD prefix followed by the series generation as the first digit and the next three digits signifying the rank and quality of the card. The higher the numbers the better. For example, the Radeon HD 7990 is the current top end card while the Radeon HD 7750 is a mid range solution.
This can seem confusing at first but to put it is easily broken down into easier to understand and more specific terms. For example, the three digits ending from 000-390 represent the lowest performance graphics card. These are generally integrated video cards used in OEM or business only systems. The next step up is the 400-590 range which are primarily aimed at the budget oriented consumer.
Following the lower tier cards are the midrange graphics cards. These are in the 600-790 series and used for light gaming and multimedia applications. The last category, 800-990, represents the highest performing video cards suited for the gaming enthusiast.

 

[ericlp]

http://m.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html

Here you go 7660d=gt630
The 7750 and 7770 are as couple steps above it

according to the site all these cards perform similar...

Discrete: X1950 XTX, HD 4650 (DDR3), 5550 (DDR3)
Integrated: HD 7660D

http://www.hwcompare.com/11982/radeon-hd-4650-1gb-vs-radeon-hd-7770/

So I guess that answers it than... Since the above test is using DDR3 4650 card. I expected the discrete card to be faster but... By how much is always a good thing to know. Tho I still think for a bit more power usage the 7770 is probably the way to go since... currently for 20-30 bucks more you can step up to the faster card all be it at more of a wattage hog.


Thanks...

 

[mfenn]

P/S I'd like to know you you think a 7660D is = to a 640 or what ever you linked to? Did you just make that up or do you have some REAL numbers to back it up with?

Are you being serious???

I never said that a GT 640 is equal to the 7660D. I said that the GT 640 is faster than the 7660D. Allow me to put the numbers right in front of your face again.

On average the 7750 is about 40-50% faster than the GT 640.
On average the GT 640 is about 25-30% faster than the 7660D.

Thus, on average the 7750 is about 75-95% faster than the 7660D. I was conservative and called it a 75% advantage.

Next time, don't accuse me of making stuff up when you are clearly incapable of clicking on two links and performing simple arithmetic.

Ignoring (system vs CPU)... yes... I know but if your gonna build two system tests your still gonna use the hardware p/s mobo ram etc...etc... so when you put it all together your going to expect that kinda power draw from the APU/CPU. Am I right?

No, you are wrong. You persistently took overall system power consumption numbers for the i3 and called the "CPU power consumption." And then in the same breath touted the system power numbers for an APU as the total power consumption. See:

A10 only sucks down 32 watts in idle mode.

Intel just the CPU will down 40! That's 160 Watts more a day and I haven't even included the 50-80 watts more for a GPU!

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Or is a different brand of MOBO really gonna make that much difference?

Yes it will, look here. As you can hopefully see, there is a 16W (50%) difference in overall system idle power consumption just by switching out the mobo.

 

[mfenn]

according to the site all these cards perform similar...

Discrete: X1950 XTX, HD 4650 (DDR3), 5550 (DDR3)
Integrated: HD 7660D

http://www.hwcompare.com/11982/radeon-hd-4650-1gb-vs-radeon-hd-7770/

So I guess that answers it than... Since the above test is using DDR3 4650 card. I expected the discrete card to be faster but... By how much is always a good thing to know. Tho I still think for a bit more power usage the 7770 is probably the way to go since... currently for 20-30 bucks more you can step up to the faster card all be it at more of a wattage hog.


Thanks...

Sigh.

Please note that the above 'benchmarks' are all just theoretical - the results were calculated based on the card's specifications, and real-world performance may (and probably will) vary at least a bit.

If theoretical numbers actually correlated to gaming performance, the FX 5800 would have been the fastest card around at the time. See my post above for actual numbers based on actual games.

 

[bononos]

I dunno.... How hard is it for someone to compare and run the #'s between an A10 and an i3 with a 7750 or a 7770... ????? I'm gonna wait for the numbers to come out for that first... Hopefully they will not only do just games but watts power test. Everything I read I get mixed reviews on this. I really don't want to pair up a GPU with an APU. If I gotta do that... might as well just buy an i3/7770 combo. I wouldn't even look at the 7750. Since it in performance between the 7750 and 7770 is kinda of a lot.
.......

Regarding my earlier posts about power consumption, a simple google for "a10 amd power consumption" gives the topmost 2 hits from bit-tech/techspot which shows the idle power consumption A10/ivy i3 to be comparable (i3 being very slightly more efficient at idle). Depending upon the mb model and how efficient the components/design is, it could swing either way.

In your OP, you said you were out of the loop for ~4 years but it looks to be alot longer from your posts. Hwcompare is useful for looking up raw numbers but not for extrapolating performance btwn cards of diff generations.

If you're not expecting to play newish games with the igp or are prepared to lived with minimum settings with the igp then an A10 would work as a quiet efficient pc. Otherwise, at load it sucks down as much power as an i5. Check out the part 1 Trinity review at AT.

 

[Torn Mind]

Regarding my earlier posts about power consumption, a simple google for "a10 amd power consumption" gives the topmost 2 hits from bit-tech/techspot which shows the idle power consumption A10/ivy i3 to be comparable (i3 being very slightly more efficient at idle). Depending upon the mb model and how efficient the components/design is, it could swing either way.

In your OP, you said you were out of the loop for ~4 years but it looks to be alot longer from your posts. Hwcompare is useful for looking up raw numbers but not for extrapolating performance btwn cards of diff generations.

If you're not expecting to play newish games with the igp or are prepared to lived with minimum settings with the igp then an A10 would work as a quiet efficient pc. Otherwise, at load it sucks down as much power as an i5. Check out the part 1 Trinity review at AT.

So faster RAM leads to higher idle watts... I don't see a 32 watt bar in this graphic....Oh, he wanted to use 1866 Mhz RAM too...

 

[stevech]

Kill-A-Watt - may not accurately calculate the RMS of the current consumption for fast-changing loads.