AMD\ATI Interview

[imported_smyrgl]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
You know if Microsoft wants to piss off intel for bring Apple into X86 then should do some kind of partnership with AMD to provide 2 billion dollar funding for DX10 drive / next xbox development and gets some interesting project going to take advantage of the Teraflops of power that GPU can do . This way AMD gets some cash and Microsoft gets more stable driver. Also Microsoft is not left with only Intel to do deal with. Better than buying Yahoo for 50billion which is totally stupid ;(

Why on Earth would Microsoft do that? They aren't a charity, and AMD has nothing to offer them that would justify that kind of investment. Sure they could sell the company, but Microsoft isn't going to buy AMD--they aren't interested in making that kind of major investment in the hardware market. Microsoft is a software company and like IBM they know that they only get involved with hardware when it's going to sell software.

As for potential saviors for AMD, there aren't any that I can see that would fit ALL of the following:

1) Have the cash to buy AMD
2) Be interested in what AMD has to offer as a package rather than tearing the company apart and selling it off in pieces

If AMD does fall apart (something that seems inevitable, the only question being when) they are likely going to be taken to pieces by buyers, AMD just isn't very attractive as a whole. There are very few players that want to get into the hardware market at this point (it's too volatile and AMD doesn't really have a profitable future with the economics of scale in the desktop CPU business) so AMD is much more valuable selling off their fabs, finding a suitor for ATI (not hard), and hitting up Intel for what is left of their IP.

 

[hardwareking]

we really need AMD to survive,otherwise intel will turn evil again(evil in the sense,extremely high prices for every single processor)
we AMD to survive,otherwise we'll end up getting crap like the 8800 ultra(crap in the sense,its overpriced and has performance of a GTX which is still amazing)

but if AMD does indeed fall,who'll take their place,VIA,IBM?

Maybe donald trump will buy AMD?(yeah right)

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: smyrgl

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
You know if Microsoft wants to piss off intel for bring Apple into X86 then should do some kind of partnership with AMD to provide 2 billion dollar funding for DX10 drive / next xbox development and gets some interesting project going to take advantage of the Teraflops of power that GPU can do . This way AMD gets some cash and Microsoft gets more stable driver. Also Microsoft is not left with only Intel to do deal with. Better than buying Yahoo for 50billion which is totally stupid ;(

Why on Earth would Microsoft do that? They aren't a charity, and AMD has nothing to offer them that would justify that kind of investment. Sure they could sell the company, but Microsoft isn't going to buy AMD--they aren't interested in making that kind of major investment in the hardware market. Microsoft is a software company and like IBM they know that they only get involved with hardware when it's going to sell software.

As for potential saviors for AMD, there aren't any that I can see that would fit ALL of the following:

1) Have the cash to buy AMD
2) Be interested in what AMD has to offer as a package rather than tearing the company apart and selling it off in pieces

If AMD does fall apart (something that seems inevitable, the only question being when) they are likely going to be taken to pieces by buyers, AMD just isn't very attractive as a whole. There are very few players that want to get into the hardware market at this point (it's too volatile and AMD doesn't really have a profitable future with the economics of scale in the desktop CPU business) so AMD is much more valuable selling off their fabs, finding a suitor for ATI (not hard), and hitting up Intel for what is left of their IP.

Did you just join up anandtech forum just to bash my post. Did i offend you so much or you think one of those Microsoft decision making people may read that and go wait that actually makes sense. Do you work for Intel or Nvidia or are you looking at whats best for microsoft. Helping AMD would be good eough reason to piss of Intel alone. Also Amd can do wonders for Microsoft then buy a stupid Online ad company for 6billion dollar.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
You know if Microsoft wants to piss off intel for bring Apple into X86 then should do some kind of partnership with AMD to provide 2 billion dollar funding for DX10 drive / next xbox development and gets some interesting project going to take advantage of the Teraflops of power that GPU can do . This way AMD gets some cash and Microsoft gets more stable driver. Also Microsoft is not left with only Intel to do deal with. Better than buying Yahoo for 50billion which is totally stupid ;(

Actually what you just said, is totally stupid.

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
You know if Microsoft wants to piss off intel for bring Apple into X86 then should do some kind of partnership with AMD to provide 2 billion dollar funding for DX10 drive / next xbox development and gets some interesting project going to take advantage of the Teraflops of power that GPU can do . This way AMD gets some cash and Microsoft gets more stable driver. Also Microsoft is not left with only Intel to do deal with. Better than buying Yahoo for 50billion which is totally stupid ;(

Actually what you just said, is totally stupid.

explain why is it stupid ?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
You know if Microsoft wants to piss off intel for bring Apple into X86 then should do some kind of partnership with AMD to provide 2 billion dollar funding for DX10 drive / next xbox development and gets some interesting project going to take advantage of the Teraflops of power that GPU can do . This way AMD gets some cash and Microsoft gets more stable driver. Also Microsoft is not left with only Intel to do deal with. Better than buying Yahoo for 50billion which is totally stupid ;(

Actually what you just said, is totally stupid.

explain why is it stupid ?

1) MS doesn't give a crap what Apple uses for their CPU. APple is predominately MacOSX based and the few who use WIndows will buy legitimate copies thus getting MS MORE MONEY
2) MS doesn't give a crap about Intel or AMD. Hell if CYRIX had been the main supplier of desktop PC CPUs or even IBM or Motorola they would not care. They sell an OS. Now with regards to the Xbox most of the R&D is done in house and isn't directly outsourced to ATI or any other manufacturer. Again, they don't care who makes the chips, they will use the best for them. They will not release a new console for many years yet so even talking about using AMD when MS could use Intel for all we know...or even something else entirely. MS also does not care about driver development, that's not for them to do. They release the OS...if company x has a crap driver MS doesn't care because they already sold you the OS.
3) Buying yahoo is stupid? Yahoo is the 2nd most used internet search engine behind Google. Yahoo is also a very large brand name with alot of potential marketing space.

 

[imported_smyrgl]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
Did you just join up anandtech forum just to bash my post. Did i offend you so much or you think one of those Microsoft decision making people may read that and go wait that actually makes sense. Do you work for Intel or Nvidia or are you looking at whats best for microsoft. Helping AMD would be good eough reason to piss of Intel alone. Also Amd can do wonders for Microsoft then buy a stupid Online ad company for 6billion dollar.

Get over yourself, I joined up, saw your post and decided to reply, simple as that. The fact that you said something stupid is not my problem. Now you've decided to compound this by saying a number of even MORE stupid things.

1) Microsoft bought a "stupid online ad company" in order to more effectively compete against Google and to beef up their online presence. Google has a stranglehold on the online advertising market (which is remarkably lucrative or are you not aware of Google's market cap?) and Adwords still makes up the lions share of Google's revenue. You call it a "stupid online ad company", I call it a highly strategic purchase.

2) Quantify exactly what AMD would offer Microsoft besides acting as a money pit. Microsoft didn't get to where it is today by purchasing companies with a terrible balance sheet, especially when raw cash isn't going to solve AMD's financial problems.

3) Microsoft has never shown great interest in the hardware market, they have always been primarily a software company. There's a lot of reasons for this, not the least of which are due to the enormous financial risks of the hardware market in general. And don't bother bringing up the X360, it is very much a means to sell software, not the other way around.

4) Why exactly does Microsoft have a grudge against Intel? They aren't the closest of allies, but they aren't bitter enemies either. The Wintel alliance has proven profitable for both of them over the years.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: smyrgl

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
Did you just join up anandtech forum just to bash my post. Did i offend you so much or you think one of those Microsoft decision making people may read that and go wait that actually makes sense. Do you work for Intel or Nvidia or are you looking at whats best for microsoft. Helping AMD would be good eough reason to piss of Intel alone. Also Amd can do wonders for Microsoft then buy a stupid Online ad company for 6billion dollar.

Get over yourself, I joined up, saw your post and decided to reply, simple as that. The fact that you said something stupid is not my problem. Now you've decided to compound this by saying a number of even MORE stupid things.

1) Microsoft bought a "stupid online ad company" in order to more effectively compete against Google and to beef up their online presence. Google has a stranglehold on the online advertising market (which is remarkably lucrative or are you not aware of Google's market cap?) and Adwords still makes up the lions share of Google's revenue. You call it a "stupid online ad company", I call it a highly strategic purchase.

2) Quantify exactly what AMD would offer Microsoft besides acting as a money pit. Microsoft didn't get to where it is today by purchasing companies with a terrible balance sheet, especially when raw cash isn't going to solve AMD's financial problems.

3) Microsoft has never shown great interest in the hardware market, they have always been primarily a software company. There's a lot of reasons for this, not the least of which are due to the enormous financial risks of the hardware market in general. And don't bother bringing up the X360, it is very much a means to sell software, not the other way around.

4) Why exactly does Microsoft have a grudge against Intel? They aren't the closest of allies, but they aren't bitter enemies either. The Wintel alliance has proven profitable for both of them over the years.

it was a *suggestion* he just threw out there like my silly "give-away promotion"
-my job or future does NOT depend on it ... it is an *idea*

i *doubt* MS is even considering buying AMD ... that would mean they want to go head-to-head with intel and it would *upset* a lot of their current partners and the 'balance' in the Tech world

more likely is for 'private equity' to buy AMD ... like they did with Chrysler

whether they do it to 'dismantle' AMD and sell it's 'pieces' off or plan to infuse capital into it with a "vision" to running it properly ... is beyond conjecture ... now
-or a stockholder revolt may bring about a downsizing and a better direction
--but it appears AMD has to do "something" ... the satus quo insures they will continue to bleed cash and die.

whgat i DID find strange is that you would pick his idea to pieces ... yet no one has really shown that a massive "give away" would NOT work for AMD

HUGE -bang-for-buck 'PR' for a few million dollars ....
What *else* might work? ... other than bringing back Jerry [and i DOUBT he wants this mess ... now]

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: smyrgl

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
Did you just join up anandtech forum just to bash my post. Did i offend you so much or you think one of those Microsoft decision making people may read that and go wait that actually makes sense. Do you work for Intel or Nvidia or are you looking at whats best for microsoft. Helping AMD would be good eough reason to piss of Intel alone. Also Amd can do wonders for Microsoft then buy a stupid Online ad company for 6billion dollar.

Get over yourself, I joined up, saw your post and decided to reply, simple as that. The fact that you said something stupid is not my problem. Now you've decided to compound this by saying a number of even MORE stupid things.

1) Microsoft bought a "stupid online ad company" in order to more effectively compete against Google and to beef up their online presence. Google has a stranglehold on the online advertising market (which is remarkably lucrative or are you not aware of Google's market cap?) and Adwords still makes up the lions share of Google's revenue. You call it a "stupid online ad company", I call it a highly strategic purchase.

2) Quantify exactly what AMD would offer Microsoft besides acting as a money pit. Microsoft didn't get to where it is today by purchasing companies with a terrible balance sheet, especially when raw cash isn't going to solve AMD's financial problems.

3) Microsoft has never shown great interest in the hardware market, they have always been primarily a software company. There's a lot of reasons for this, not the least of which are due to the enormous financial risks of the hardware market in general. And don't bother bringing up the X360, it is very much a means to sell software, not the other way around.

4) Why exactly does Microsoft have a grudge against Intel? They aren't the closest of allies, but they aren't bitter enemies either. The Wintel alliance has proven profitable for both of them over the years.

it was a *suggestion* he just threw out there like my silly "give-away promotion"
-my job or future does NOT depend on it ... it is an *idea*

i *doubt* MS is even considering buying AMD ... that would mean they want to go head-to-head with intel and it would *upset* a lot of their current partners and the 'balance' in the Tech world

more likely is for 'private equity' to buy AMD ... like they did with Chrysler

whether they do it to 'dismantle' AMD and sell it's 'pieces' off or plan to infuse capital into it with a "vision" to running it properly ... is beyond conjecture ... now
-or a stockholder revolt may bring about a downsizing and a better direction
--but it appears AMD has to do "something" ... the satus quo insures they will continue to bleed cash and die.

whgat i DID find strange is that you would pick his idea to pieces ... yet no one has really shown that a massive "give away" would NOT work for AMD

HUGE -bang-for-buck 'PR' for a few million dollars ....
What *else* might work? ... other than bringing back Jerry [and i DOUBT he wants this mess ... now]

What would work, give everything to Intel that is CPU related then give Nvidia the ATI side and call it a day. No not really...

 

[imported_smyrgl]

Originally posted by: apoppin
whgat i DID find strange is that you would pick his idea to pieces ... yet no one has really shown that a massive "give away" would NOT work for AMD

HUGE -bang-for-buck 'PR' for a few million dollars ....
What *else* might work? ... other than bringing back Jerry [and i DOUBT he wants this mess ... now]

What does ATI have to do with any of this? ATI as a division is profitable most of the time and is completely capable of functioning post-AMD. If/When AMD goes down, ATI will not go down with them, they'll get sold off and will continue to operate as before. However, they will not be able to keep AMD afloat as a whole.

And there really isn't any good solution right now. This moment was largely foreseeable as AMD has had economics of scale playing further and further against them for years. As fabs get more and more expensive, AMD can no longer afford to keep up on the manufacturing side. Notice how they are seriously cutting back on fab improvements to save money? This is a telltale sign of what is to come.

Realistically Intel could eliminate them in a year if they wanted to (you think the price war right now is bad? Intel could afford cutting CPU prices in half if they wanted) but even in a slower war of attrition AMD is bound to lose.

As for your giveaway idea...I'll just say that I seriously suggest you avoid the areas of marketing, finance or product management in whatever your career path is.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

What would work, give everything to Intel that is CPU related then give Nvidia the ATI side and call it a day. No not really...

*capitulation* ... just "give up" ... *impossible* ... sure sell ATi again ... after *wrecking* it
:roll:
=========================

Originally posted by: smyrgl

Originally posted by: apoppin
whgat i DID find strange is that you would pick his idea to pieces ... yet no one has really shown that a massive "give away" would NOT work for AMD

HUGE -bang-for-buck 'PR' for a few million dollars ....
What *else* might work? ... other than bringing back Jerry [and i DOUBT he wants this mess ... now]

What does ATI have to do with any of this? ATI as a division is profitable most of the time and is completely capable of functioning post-AMD. If/When AMD goes down, ATI will not go down with them, they'll get sold off and will continue to operate as before. However, they will not be able to keep AMD afloat as a whole.

And there really isn't any good solution right now. This moment was largely foreseeable as AMD has had economics of scale playing further and further against them for years. As fabs get more and more expensive, AMD can no longer afford to keep up on the manufacturing side. Notice how they are seriously cutting back on fab improvements to save money? This is a telltale sign of what is to come.

Realistically Intel could eliminate them in a year if they wanted to (you think the price war right now is bad? Intel could afford cutting CPU prices in half if they wanted) but even in a slower war of attrition AMD is bound to lose.

As for your giveaway idea...I'll just say that I seriously suggest you avoid the areas of marketing, finance or product management in whatever your career path is.

i dunno what DOES ATi have to do with it ... YOU brought it up?


i am asking for *suggestions* to HELP AMD
--and it is too late for me ... i already have a career in "marketing, finance AND product management"
--it is *secure* ... for almost 30 years now ... i don't need another job [although i do "consult"]


... and i am 'ripping off' Microsoft and coca cola's ideas ... the "give away" is solid PR ... IF you "trust" your product

Do you even have a job or are you still in school?
:Q

 

[cmdrdredd]

AMD will definately run out of money faster than Intel regardless of what is better or faster. AMD keeps playing the performance per watt game, but honestly most enthusiasts buying the top of the line CPUs for the ultimate in performance don't care. They want the fastest possible. Sure they have the Laptop market and other lower end markets to consider, but I saw nothing...that's right not one thing at all in that interview that said they will have a faster CPU than the competition. They kept saying "performance per size" or "performance per watt". That hurts, when you can't even show a benchmark (remember they prevented people from running benchmarks and showing cinebench scores).

They're hurting so they should be looking for any good press they can get. If they have a CPU that is clocked at 2.4Ghz, runs cooler than the equivelant Intel counterpart, and has better performance than the closest matched CPU from Intel, they should be willing to show that to people. I wonder if they're not playing this like ATI..."we can't compete on the high end this round so lets release a mid-range product with good features at a reasonable price point and call it a day". If I were AMD I'd be throwing benchmarks at people just to keep them interested. Now, the red-tie guy kept talking about not doing unfair comparisons and benchmarks that are rigged to favor one product over another. What does this say to you? To me it says "hey we won't rig benchmarks to make us look good and the fact is that we look bad and don't want to tell you".

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin
because you don't realize how *little* $2.5M gets you in Radio ... never mind running ANY kind of - even national campaign - on TV

you need many tens of millions of dollars ... and to coordinate an international effort ... and it has to be planned many months in advance and 'deals struck'

and i *dare* your to look at intels advertising budget ... NO MATTER what AMD does, intel will ALWAYS outspend them by at least 5-to-1 ... if AMD has a great year.

again i ask you ...
are you kidding?

Ask me as often as you like, I don't mind. 2.5million in radio will reach more than 9000 customers, that I can guarantee. The giveaway "might" be a decent idea "if" AMD wasn't SO FAR behind here. They need to MAKE some money and it's not buy giving it away at this point. 5:1 Intel:AMD? That would at least get me 1 TV commercial for every 5 of Intels that I see. But I don't. I can't remember if I ever saw an AMD commercial or if I just read that somebody else did it has been THAT long ago.

So again, no. I am not kidding. You have a background in advertising? ok, but that doesn't always mean that your way, would be the right thing to do. Especially an off the wall giveaway.

"my" 9,000 new customers will personally reach many dozens more
--with glowing testimonials to flood our forums; repeated worldwide for months

i bet you don't actually read what i write ...

for 'my company'in AMD's identical position - at the verge of bankruptcy - the choice is easy ... simple ... and it boils down to this:

1) give them away

or

2) Throw them away ... later

--do you like to complicate things?

The only thing that I "may" be complicating, is your scenario. Otherwise, monies invested in advertising that could reach millions in a "single day" rather than 9000 people spreading happiness via word of mouth (And don't forget, not all 9000 will be happy with this loud, hot power hungry medium performing 8pin/6pin PCI-e connector card.). AMD does not have the luxury of time here. R600 delayed OVER six months (I think it's closer to NINE actually) and now Barcelona pushed back. Time is of the essense for AMD. I just think that after the ATI buyout, AMD/ATI stalled so badly that they just can't get the plugs dried off to get any spark. This does have all the makings of a buyout from another company. I really believe AMD will go on, but not under current ownership.

Your way is a gimmick. Sometimes gimmicks pay off, sometimes they don't. What AMD needs to get across to people is what their products are capable of, and why there offerings are just as good as Intel's/Nvidia's. At this point, after so much BS from AMD's PR, only the truth will give them half a chance.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin
because you don't realize how *little* $2.5M gets you in Radio ... never mind running ANY kind of - even national campaign - on TV

you need many tens of millions of dollars ... and to coordinate an international effort ... and it has to be planned many months in advance and 'deals struck'

and i *dare* your to look at intels advertising budget ... NO MATTER what AMD does, intel will ALWAYS outspend them by at least 5-to-1 ... if AMD has a great year.

again i ask you ...
are you kidding?

Ask me as often as you like, I don't mind. 2.5million in radio will reach more than 9000 customers, that I can guarantee. The giveaway "might" be a decent idea "if" AMD wasn't SO FAR behind here. They need to MAKE some money and it's not buy giving it away at this point. 5:1 Intel:AMD? That would at least get me 1 TV commercial for every 5 of Intels that I see. But I don't. I can't remember if I ever saw an AMD commercial or if I just read that somebody else did it has been THAT long ago.

So again, no. I am not kidding. You have a background in advertising? ok, but that doesn't always mean that your way, would be the right thing to do. Especially an off the wall giveaway.

"my" 9,000 new customers will personally reach many dozens more
--with glowing testimonials to flood our forums; repeated worldwide for months

i bet you don't actually read what i write ...

for 'my company'in AMD's identical position - at the verge of bankruptcy - the choice is easy ... simple ... and it boils down to this:

1) give them away

or

2) Throw them away ... later

--do you like to complicate things?

The only thing that I "may" be complicating, is your scenario. Otherwise, monies invested in advertising that could reach millions in a "single day" rather than 9000 people spreading happiness via word of mouth (And don't forget, not all 9000 will be happy with this loud, hot power hungry medium performing 8pin/6pin PCI-e connector card.). AMD does not have the luxury of time here. R600 delayed OVER six months (I think it's closer to NINE actually) and now Barcelona pushed back. Time is of the essense for AMD. I just think that after the ATI buyout, AMD/ATI stalled so badly that they just can't get the plugs dried off to get any spark. This does have all the makings of a buyout from another company. I really believe AMD will go on, but not under current ownership.

Your way is a gimmick. Sometimes gimmicks pay off, sometimes they don't. What AMD needs to get across to people is what their products are capable of, and why there offerings are just as good as Intel's/Nvidia's. At this point, after so much BS from AMD's PR, only the truth will give them half a chance.

my way IS a gimmick

agreed

without question
desperate times require desperate - and solid - solutions

and i would NOT go for only 9 thousand in a little giveaway ...
i'd go for 90,000 born-again fans ... well-qualified and well-equipped to spread the AMD Gospel worldwide ... that $20M "buys" a LOT of fans

yes ... i AM tapping into religious fanaticism
-am am that evil
:evil:

these forums would never be the same and the Tech World would be completely imbalanced ... for awhile
i know

why? ... i want to help AMD 'that' much ... to keep them positioned against intel and nvidia
-even though IF they followed it *exactly* and WERE successful ... i would see NOTHING from them ...
well ... except for ultimate bragging rights and a secure job with nvidia
[i know how to counter my 'gimmick' also]


suggest something else ... something that might even have a chance ... and you have 90days to "turn around" the company before the Devil comes looking for his due.

 

[apoppin]

thanks Keys .... you brought up theInq in the CPU thread and the expected jump in frequency in Barcelona's B0 stepping

well i found it ... from theInq ... May 7 ... what DID it really mean? ... *ONE* chip OC'd pretty well ... and now we Know the FULL truth ... Barcelona's B0 is a *failure* it's q3 now for Barcelona's launch ... *maybe September* ... IF their next stepping is ANY good ... AMD is hanging on a PRAYER ...


let's look at it closely ... no benchmarks ... no follow-up ... some fanboys would *seize* on this as good news
... well, it could be ... IF we could trust AMD, anymore after all the lies and spin with r600.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39440

We were told that the B0 stepping was due a few weeks ago, early April to be inexact, and they've been returned for inspection. If they were clean, they would be the launch stepping, and the Q2 date was do-able. If not, add in another few months, and you were looking at the end of Q3, maybe.

We understand that people in Austin were 'dancing in the aisles'. When asked if that was because of B0, we were told that people are very happy, very very happy, but he had 'never heard of such a thing'.

Another source claimed the memory controller, long a bottleneck in K8 scaling, came in way better than expected.

So what do you end up with? A massive gain in frequency. ...

The only question that remains is what volumes AMD can deliver at these speeds.

did you note the 5X multiple "disclaimers":

"question remains"

"we were told" [-twice]

"we understand" they were 'dancing' [but will deny it under questioning]

and "another source claimed"

--do you see AMD's attempt on a "positive spin" ... the FUD machine at work in theInq?
Where are the stupid Barcelona benches? they NEVER were afraid to release them before.
-where's the beef?

Flopalona may well be a "way" off ... past September ... IF r600 is a clue
--it appears that r600 had THIRTEEN steppings before AMD's stopgap-flagship under-performer was released to massive "negative buzz"

edit: here is the *key* from theInq

If they were clean, they would be the launch stepping, and the Q2 date was do-able. If not, add in another few months, and you were looking at the end of Q3, maybe.

so now, i'll Unlock the latest news - using AMD's own FUD, courtesy of theInq - and we NOW see that April B0 stepping "sucks" for quality yields and Barcelona is pushed forward to September ... maybe!

it's easy to 'analyze' if you read between their own lines ... AMD will not "outright" lie
-- and i am quite sure they do not want us to know what i just figured ... B0 is a failure and they have to PRAY the next stepping is a "winner"

tell me ... if you can ... that the above is NOT "desperate"
--they NEED something to turn it around ... besides a 'lucky' stepping

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin
because you don't realize how *little* $2.5M gets you in Radio ... never mind running ANY kind of - even national campaign - on TV

you need many tens of millions of dollars ... and to coordinate an international effort ... and it has to be planned many months in advance and 'deals struck'

and i *dare* your to look at intels advertising budget ... NO MATTER what AMD does, intel will ALWAYS outspend them by at least 5-to-1 ... if AMD has a great year.

again i ask you ...
are you kidding?

Ask me as often as you like, I don't mind. 2.5million in radio will reach more than 9000 customers, that I can guarantee. The giveaway "might" be a decent idea "if" AMD wasn't SO FAR behind here. They need to MAKE some money and it's not buy giving it away at this point. 5:1 Intel:AMD? That would at least get me 1 TV commercial for every 5 of Intels that I see. But I don't. I can't remember if I ever saw an AMD commercial or if I just read that somebody else did it has been THAT long ago.

So again, no. I am not kidding. You have a background in advertising? ok, but that doesn't always mean that your way, would be the right thing to do. Especially an off the wall giveaway.

"my" 9,000 new customers will personally reach many dozens more
--with glowing testimonials to flood our forums; repeated worldwide for months

i bet you don't actually read what i write ...

for 'my company'in AMD's identical position - at the verge of bankruptcy - the choice is easy ... simple ... and it boils down to this:

1) give them away

or

2) Throw them away ... later

--do you like to complicate things?

The only thing that I "may" be complicating, is your scenario. Otherwise, monies invested in advertising that could reach millions in a "single day" rather than 9000 people spreading happiness via word of mouth (And don't forget, not all 9000 will be happy with this loud, hot power hungry medium performing 8pin/6pin PCI-e connector card.). AMD does not have the luxury of time here. R600 delayed OVER six months (I think it's closer to NINE actually) and now Barcelona pushed back. Time is of the essense for AMD. I just think that after the ATI buyout, AMD/ATI stalled so badly that they just can't get the plugs dried off to get any spark. This does have all the makings of a buyout from another company. I really believe AMD will go on, but not under current ownership.

Your way is a gimmick. Sometimes gimmicks pay off, sometimes they don't. What AMD needs to get across to people is what their products are capable of, and why there offerings are just as good as Intel's/Nvidia's. At this point, after so much BS from AMD's PR, only the truth will give them half a chance.

my way IS a gimmick

agreed

without question
desperate times require desperate - and solid - solutions

and i would NOT go for only 9 thousand in a little giveaway ...
i'd go for 90,000 born-again fans ... well-qualified and well-equipped to spread the AMD Gospel worldwide ... that $20M "buys" a LOT of fans

yes ... i AM tapping into religious fanaticism
-am am that evil
:evil:

these forums would never be the same and the Tech World would be completely imbalanced ... for awhile
i know

why? ... i want to help AMD 'that' much ... to keep them positioned against intel and nvidia
-even though IF they followed it *exactly* and WERE successful ... i would see NOTHING from them ...
well ... except for ultimate bragging rights and a secure job with nvidia
[i know how to counter my 'gimmick' also]


suggest something else ... something that might even have a chance ... and you have 90days to "turn around" the company before the Devil comes looking for his due.

The thing is, the 2900XT is NOT a stellar product. It is a good performing product (I used the term mediocre before because I expected MUCH more from R600) but it's negatives far outweigh it's positives. Performance could improve with drivers of course, but unfortunately, the negatives are incurable. When these 9000 people receive their free 2900XT, and after installing it and checking it out, I can probably guarantee that a HUGE amount of them will sell them and use the money towards something else. Eventually, the free cards will be held onto by those who either don't realize the downfalls, or the ATI die hard fans, who of course will spread the gospel.

Just advertising will be enough. Just like any other corporation who has something good to sell. I am talking AMD CPU's for this instance.

 

[josh6079]

Marketing isn't everything. You simply can't pimp a poorly performing product and make it a better performing product just through ads. Unless of course benchmarks become advertisements instead of informative reviews.

Apoppin, I'm not saying you wouldn't be a good marketer. On the contrary, you seem to have all of the attributes a marketer needs. I just think marketing isn't what that review was trying to concentrate on, nor do I think it alone will be AMD's saving grace.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: josh6079
Marketing isn't everything. You simply can't pimp a poorly performing product and make it a better performing product just through ads. Unless of course benchmarks become advertisements instead of informative reviews.

Apoppin, I'm not saying you wouldn't be a good marketer. On the contrary, you seem to have all of the attributes a marketer needs. I just think marketing isn't what that review was trying to concentrate on, nor do I think it alone will be AMD's saving grace.

However, it is no doubt true that more people know who Nvidia is or Intel than AMD or ATI. SImply based on their Internet advertising, their TV commercials, their sponsorships in major sporting events (Intel sponsors some cars in Formula 1 for instance), and other forms of media hype.

 

[JFC]

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I'll probably get banned for saying this: While you have some good things to say apoppin, your posting style makes me want to claw my eyes out. It's like AOL speak on a geek forum(or should I call you the JarJar of AnandTech?) If I knew who you were and I saw you typing a post I would come over the cubicle wall and smash your hands with a brick.

Other than that I agree with you. Now act your GD age and type like you know how.

 

[mruffin75]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

However, it is no doubt true that more people know who Nvidia is or Intel than AMD or ATI. SImply based on their Internet advertising, their TV commercials, their sponsorships in major sporting events (Intel sponsors some cars in Formula 1 for instance), and other forms of media hype.

AMD does also. They sponsor (or at least last time I heard they did), the Ferrari F1 team.
(So I guess in this case the marketing didn't work? You *still* didn't know about it?)

 

[josh6079]

However, it is no doubt true that more people know who Nvidia is or Intel than AMD or ATI. SImply based on their Internet advertising, their TV commercials, their sponsorships in major sporting events (Intel sponsors some cars in Formula 1 for instance), and other forms of media hype.

I'm not doubting that, but normally those people aren't going to be building computers themselves anyways.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: josh6079
Marketing isn't everything. You simply can't pimp a poorly performing product and make it a better performing product just through ads. Unless of course benchmarks become advertisements instead of informative reviews.

Apoppin, I'm not saying you wouldn't be a good marketer. On the contrary, you seem to have all of the attributes a marketer needs. I just think marketing isn't what that review was trying to concentrate on, nor do I think it alone will be AMD's saving grace.

well .. thank you ... but i am actually a Crappy marketeer ... otoh, i worked with brilliant marketeers ... i am more of the person who gets brilliant people who hate each other to work together really creatively. ... and i can spot 'flaws' in plans and analyze data pretty well in making 'future' predictions.

first of all ... you are absolutely right ... if HD2900xt really IS "poorly performing" ... then by ALL means, take Key's suggestion for traditional advertising [or really "forget it" till you DO have a more decent product to promote]

BUT ... i *believe* that HD2900xt is really a rough diamond ... that if THOUSANDS of active internet posters actually HAD them in their rigs - for free - they would be NUTS about them

and we would all know about it ... the entire tech world

100,000 rabid born-again vocal passionate AMD fans or a sportscar sponsorship ?
--i think *everybody* would know AMD ... positively ... they are SO SURE of their product they are giving them away

i know what i'd pick for my 20 million

hey JFC ... Junior ... how many 'emoticons' are in my current posts?

 

[Extelleron]

The people in this thread forcasting the doom of AMD becuase the HD 2900XT isn't a G80 killer really don't understand the big picture. It doesn't MATTER whether the HD 2900XT is faster than an 8800GTX. What does matter is who has the better MIDRANGE and LOW-END cards and who pc-builders like Dell will go to. Compared to the amount of GPU's they will sell to companies like Dell, our little market is a small niche. The HD 2000 series HIGH END might not seem so attractive, but to many users and to these companies, the HD 2400 and HD 2600 will be very attractive.

The HD 2400/2600 are built on a 65nm process and have very low power usage and heat-output - therefore they are very quiet and are perfect candidates for passive cooling. This is exactly what people want when building a multimedia PC or a PC for a non-gamer / non-enthusiast. Gamers will be happy too because it looks to me like the HD 2600 will beat the 8600, even if not by a big margin. The other good thing is how cheap these will be for AMD to produce. A 65nm process means a small chip and a small chip means many can be manufactured for a low-cost. This gives AMD the flexibility to price their GPU's attractively and have good profit margins. nVidia on their 80nm process has larger chips and must either charge more or have lower profits per GPU sold.

The world doesn't revolve around what we enthusiasts buy and what we think. We're a very small niche in the PC market. Personally I wish the HD 2900XT was a G80 killer as well, but AMD is concentrating on the markets that matter and that's not the high-end.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Extelleron
The people in this thread forcasting the doom of AMD becuase the HD 2900XT isn't a G80 killer really don't understand the big picture. It doesn't MATTER whether the HD 2900XT is faster than an 8800GTX. What does matter is who has the better MIDRANGE and LOW-END cards and who pc-builders like Dell will go to. Compared to the amount of GPU's they will sell to companies like Dell, our little market is a small niche. The HD 2000 series HIGH END might not seem so attractive, but to many users and to these companies, the HD 2400 and HD 2600 will be very attractive.

The HD 2400/2600 are built on a 65nm process and have very low power usage and heat-output - therefore they are very quiet and are perfect candidates for passive cooling. This is exactly what people want when building a multimedia PC or a PC for a non-gamer / non-enthusiast. Gamers will be happy too because it looks to me like the HD 2600 will beat the 8600, even if not by a big margin. The other good thing is how cheap these will be for AMD to produce. A 65nm process means a small chip and a small chip means many can be manufactured for a low-cost. This gives AMD the flexibility to price their GPU's attractively and have good profit margins. nVidia on their 80nm process has larger chips and must either charge more or have lower profits per GPU sold.

The world doesn't revolve around what we enthusiasts buy and what we think. We're a very small niche in the PC market. Personally I wish the HD 2900XT was a G80 killer as well, but AMD is concentrating on the markets that matter and that's not the high-end.

absolutely agreed

you are perceived to be an "AMD Fan" because you have this PoV
... but my position is *strange* to the board members here ... on one hand i *love* HD2900xt and thinks it has a "real future" so i get labeled a 'fanboy' [too] ... BUT i am ALSO "perceived" to be *attacking* AMD and get labeled an nvidiot by the [shrinking] AMD camp


the FACT of the matter is that it DOES matter what "we" think ... the 'net has changed everything and all bets are off

Don't you think AMD "heard us" calling their FUD "lies"
their CEO responded
[with a new ploy]

so ... i want him to hear us again ... with a couple of suggestions besides mine to "save AMD"

AMD needs to be "saved" but first it needs to acknowledge it is a "Sinner"
... really *believe* .. then 'repent' and make atonement with a massive "give away"
... then it will be saved

 

[imported_smyrgl]

Originally posted by: apoppin
--and it is too late for me ... i already have a career in "marketing, finance AND product management"
--it is *secure* ... for almost 30 years now ... i don't need another job [although i do "consult"]


... and i am 'ripping off' Microsoft and coca cola's ideas ... the "give away" is solid PR ... IF you "trust" your product

Do you even have a job or are you still in school?
:Q

I am a Director of Product Management and Product Marketing for a technology company in Silicon Valley.

And without trying to start a flamewar, I have a VERY hard time believing a person with your command of the English language could be successful in any of the fields you claim to have decades of experience in.