AMD : Battlefield 4 Patch, Mantle API and Catalyst 14.1 Update

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Rvenger

Elite Member <br> Super Moderator <br> Video Cards
Apr 6, 2004
6,283
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I need to try this on my i3-3220 and HD 7770. (Second rig in sig below)
 

Will Robinson

Golden Member
Dec 19, 2009
1,408
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You can bet the lights will be burning late at DICE and AMD HQ on that one.
So far it seems Mantle has done pretty well,most players are reporting better frames and a smoother feel to the game play.
Some of those are numbers as good as getting a better video card and as a free boost has got to be welcome.:thumbsup:
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
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Reading through the Mantle driver feedback and issue threads at HardOCP and OCN made me remember what I disliked so much about AMD's software when I was using AMD GPUs (7970s most recently). OCN in particular has nearly a 100 page thread of people experiencing crashes, some with Mantle working but breaking other games (Rome 2, minecraft, and others), CFX and surround not working at all (and not just in BF4), and stuttering. Oh. , this driver apparently halves hashrates per HardOCP users. Make one thing better, break 15 things in the process...

AMD really needs to treat their customers who were so hyped up about this better IMO. I remember stuff like this happening all too well. Mantle has so much potential, but it all hinges on AMD's software team stepping it up.
 
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Gloomy

Golden Member
Oct 12, 2010
1,469
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It's a Beta driver though, lol. It's a good thing they're happening now. Right? That's the point of a Beta.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
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The word "beta" truly does mean BETA with AMD, yes. Reading some of those posts though, you can't deny that it's a crapshow with this driver. It seems more like an alpha, and my point is, customers shouldn't get this treatment after being hyped on Mantle so much. Should they? I don't think they should, I mean I used AMD for years and this was one reason that I switched. A lot of people, just get sick of dealing with nonsense especially when other betas from other companies work okay, on average. Also, "beta driver" doesn't necessarily apply to numerous other beta drivers i've tried from other companies, which generally work just fine.

I won't add anymore to this, I just mention this because the issues i'm seeing in those threads at HardOCP and oCN are just unreal. 100+ pages of users getting crashes, stuttering, and outright breaking their systems. Far more than anyone could reasonably expect, the majority of users are having show stopping bugs with this driver. My point again being that customers deserve better. It's one reason I switched. Just a side comment, I won't mention anything else along these lines, but one would hope AMD fixes this crap and fast. Despite my reservations of Mantle YOU GUYS should get better treatment by the company who sold you a product based partially on this Mantle feature. You wouldn't argue against that, now would you?
 
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krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,595
136
H test bf4 multiplayer 2 different maps:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014...mance_preview_in_battlefield_4/3#.Uu_XLfl5NOJ

"Where AMD Mantle actually did improve things though is in the frame times. While we weren't able to increase the gameplay settings, we did notice a smoother overall experience while gaming. This in itself is a big plus. The graphs backed up our feelings by showing AMD Mantle to be smoother, more consistent, and also produce lower time between frames, which is very important. This is probably AMD Mantle's biggest claim to fame for us right now, is the improvement in frame times which smooths out your gameplay experience. If this carries through to multi-GPU CrossFire, this could be a huge benefit."

Mirrors my subjective experience. We have those weird hickups that must be a bug, but the gameplay is more smooth.
 

BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
4,762
0
76
I still don't understand why AMD releases drivers in these sorts of states. Internally during testing they must have seen these problems. If they didn't then there is something seriously wrong with their quality control, they just aren't putting these drivers through enough testing to catch problems that the grand majority of users have.

I felt the same way about the frame pacing concerns. When FCAT first came out my initial thought was that the GPU companies must be doing at least that level of testing to check their SLI/xfire output. It turned out that wasn't the case for AMD, they were completely blindsided by the whole thing.

I don't think the difference between Nvidia and AMD is really so much the driver team, I think its the testing team in Nvidia that stops drivers with obvious problems. That isn't to say they don't break things but they don't release drivers like this and I don't think any company should ever release products this low quality. The fact a lot of the problems aren't in the known issues tells us a lot about how AMD is currently testing its drivers. Change is needed in AMD, a perfectly good technology is somewhat soured by poor quality control and it didn't need to be. Give yourself realistic release schedules, delay if needed and go about getting it right and working well rather than throwing tonnes of beta drivers out that all have their own problems.
 
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brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
3,731
2
0
It seems AMD lacks any sort of Unit Testing. When something breaks, add it to a the testing scenario. That will be tested next time around. Eventually, they'll have enough things being tested by unit testing to make sure 98% of everything works as intended.

I understand this is a big release and that adds potentially to really fubar things, but that only reinforces the need for unit testing.
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,634
180
106
I don't think the difference between Nvidia and AMD is really so much the driver team, I think its the testing team in Nvidia that stops drivers with obvious problems. That isn't to say they don't break things but they don't release drivers like this and I don't think any company should ever release products this low quality. The fact a lot of the problems aren't in the known issues tells us a lot about how AMD is currently testing its drivers. Change is needed in AMD, a perfectly good technology is somewhat soured by poor quality control and it didn't need to be. Give yourself realistic release schedules, delay if needed and go about getting it right and working well rather than throwing tonnes of beta drivers out that all have their own problems.

The purpose of beta drivers is to catch problems on different systems configurations.
I'm sure there is some hardware+software configurations that have no problems at all, but it is simply impossible to test all the possible configurations.

When you download a beta expect it to have problems.

If it was all sorted it wouldn't be called a beta (and we all know how reliable release versions of software actually are...).

And one could always point to the infamous GPU killer drivers, which probably mostly consider worse than games crashing or whatnot.
 
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AnMig

Golden Member
Nov 7, 2000
1,760
3
81
BF4 was a nice experience with Mantle so far. Generally very smooth, even with 79xx trifire.

No problems with other games I play.

Wait I thought driver support for 7970 for mantle was not out yet.
I installed 14.1 yesterday and played bf4 with no issues but did not check if mantle was available.
Currently have 7970 xfire and i5 2500k @ 4.4ghz

So 14.1 drivers support mantle on the other cards aside form 290?
 

VulgarDisplay

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2009
6,193
2
76
Wait I thought driver support for 7970 for mantle was not out yet.
I installed 14.1 yesterday and played bf4 with no issues but did not check if mantle was available.
Currently have 7970 xfire and i5 2500k @ 4.4ghz

So 14.1 drivers support mantle on the other cards aside form 290?

Yes it does. I've been using it since the drivers came out.

Make sure to disable your IGP, and set bf4 launch options to 64bit only before you attempt to run mantle.
 

AnMig

Golden Member
Nov 7, 2000
1,760
3
81
Yes it does. I've been using it since the drivers came out.

Make sure to disable your IGP, and set bf4 launch options to 64bit only before you attempt to run mantle.

Wohoo thanks will try tonight.

Disable IGP in BIOS right?

How do you set 64bit launch option? cfg file?

thanks
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,595
136
I still don't understand why AMD releases drivers in these sorts of states. Internally during testing they must have seen these problems. If they didn't then there is something seriously wrong with their quality control, they just aren't putting these drivers through enough testing to catch problems that the grand majority of users have.

I felt the same way about the frame pacing concerns. When FCAT first came out my initial thought was that the GPU companies must be doing at least that level of testing to check their SLI/xfire output. It turned out that wasn't the case for AMD, they were completely blindsided by the whole thing.

I don't think the difference between Nvidia and AMD is really so much the driver team, I think its the testing team in Nvidia that stops drivers with obvious problems. That isn't to say they don't break things but they don't release drivers like this and I don't think any company should ever release products this low quality. The fact a lot of the problems aren't in the known issues tells us a lot about how AMD is currently testing its drivers. Change is needed in AMD, a perfectly good technology is somewhat soured by poor quality control and it didn't need to be. Give yourself realistic release schedules, delay if needed and go about getting it right and working well rather than throwing tonnes of beta drivers out that all have their own problems.

This betadriver is by far the biggest change ever. The usual stuff then frapacing part 2, mantle and hsa. Mantle is new api and new driver. Hsa is also something really different. Nv and amd prior have never ever released solething as technological changing as either hsa OR mantle. And this driver incoorporates two of this heavy class. No wonder there is issues. Mantle looks extremely stable for a starter. I think its quite of an achiewement.
 

UaVaj

Golden Member
Nov 16, 2012
1,546
0
76
Reading through the Mantle driver feedback and issue threads at HardOCP and OCN made me remember what I disliked so much about AMD's software when I was using AMD GPUs (7970s most recently). OCN in particular has nearly a 100 page thread of people experiencing crashes, some with Mantle working but breaking other games (Rome 2, minecraft, and others), CFX and surround not working at all (and not just in BF4), and stuttering. Oh. , this driver apparently halves hashrates per HardOCP users. Make one thing better, break 15 things in the process...

AMD really needs to treat their customers who were so hyped up about this better IMO. I remember stuff like this happening all too well. Mantle has so much potential, but it all hinges on AMD's software team stepping it up.

x2.

until amd get ALL their "T" crossed and ALL their "I" dotted.
 

stahlhart

Super Moderator Graphics Cards
Dec 21, 2010
4,273
77
91
I don't think the difference between Nvidia and AMD is really so much the driver team, I think its the testing team in Nvidia that stops drivers with obvious problems. That isn't to say they don't break things but they don't release drivers like this and I don't think any company should ever release products this low quality. The fact a lot of the problems aren't in the known issues tells us a lot about how AMD is currently testing its drivers. Change is needed in AMD, a perfectly good technology is somewhat soured by poor quality control and it didn't need to be. Give yourself realistic release schedules, delay if needed and go about getting it right and working well rather than throwing tonnes of beta drivers out that all have their own problems.

The purpose of beta drivers is to catch problems on different systems configurations.
I'm sure there is some hardware+software configurations that have no problems at all, but it is simply impossible to test all the possible configurations.

When you download a beta expect it to have problems.

If it was all sorted it wouldn't be called a beta (and we all know how reliable release versions of software actually are...).

And one could always point to the infamous GPU killer drivers, which probably mostly consider worse than games crashing or whatnot.

Am I going to have to throw you two out of here also? Take your trolling somewhere else, and stop derailing this thread.
-- stahlhart
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Are the issues really that bad or is this another "omg BF4 is so broken I can't even launch it without my computer kicking me in the nads" stuff? I had very few problems with BF4 (with SLI 670s and on my single 290). I haven't gotten a ton of time with the new beta driver, but from people who have actually used it, is it that bad?
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,108
1,260
126
Are the issues really that bad or is this another "omg BF4 is so broken I can't even launch it without my computer kicking me in the nads" stuff? I had very few problems with BF4 (with SLI 670s and on my single 290). I haven't gotten a ton of time with the new beta driver, but from people who have actually used it, is it that bad?

I ran into one issue with the Mantle drive with 7950+4670K; with the first driver install I was getting random hitches where the game would freeze momentarily then continue. These correlated with big spikes to 100% CPU usage monitoring the system with the built in graph overlays.

I did an uninstall and then a clean install and everything works fine now apart form one problem. If I change MSAA settings under the Mantle API I get frame spikes up and down and I have to leave and restart the game to get rid of it.

So generally it works fine for me and it's faster than DX11. Not substantially, but in the same static areas frame rates are about 10% higher.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
I ran into one issue with the Mantle drive with 7950+4670K; with the first driver install I was getting random hitches where the game would freeze momentarily then continue. These correlated with big spikes to 100% CPU usage monitoring the system with the built in graph overlays.

I did an uninstall and then a clean install and everything works fine now apart form one problem. If I change MSAA settings under the Mantle API I get frame spikes up and down and I have to leave and restart the game to get rid of it.

So generally it works fine for me and it's faster than DX11. Not substantially, but in the same static areas frame rates are about 10% higher.

Nice! I will have to do some more "testing" tonight. I didn't notice any significant improvements last night, but I wasn't showing framerate and just playing.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
6,240
2,559
136
Are the issues really that bad or is this another "omg BF4 is so broken I can't even launch it without my computer kicking me in the nads" stuff? I had very few problems with BF4 (with SLI 670s and on my single 290). I haven't gotten a ton of time with the new beta driver, but from people who have actually used it, is it that bad?

Outside of the stutter that I mentioned that happens now and then, it runs GREAT for me. Big jump in performance. The stutter is annoying however.

I have not tried playing any other games.
 

VulgarDisplay

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2009
6,193
2
76
Are the issues really that bad or is this another "omg BF4 is so broken I can't even launch it without my computer kicking me in the nads" stuff? I had very few problems with BF4 (with SLI 670s and on my single 290). I haven't gotten a ton of time with the new beta driver, but from people who have actually used it, is it that bad?

The only problems I have had so far with it on my 2500k and 7970 are this:

Clicking options in bf4 when you have your igp enabled in device manager causes the game to crash. Mantle is not an option in bf4 unless you force x64 in the origin launch options for bf4. The random hang issue.

It plays beautifully when you don't get the hangs. I've kept it on in spite of the hanging because it plays so much better for me and the hang is only ever a split second and then back to 120fps instantly. It has only caused a death one time so far. I think its related to sound because i've noticed it happen several times when explosions occur.
 

Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
4,444
641
126
Reporting in with the stuttering problem as well on a 290 + 2500k w/ 8gb ddr3-1600. Anyone who has the 30 FPS bug: turn off Vsync. For some reason it is setting the cap at 30 FPS sometimes under Mantle renderer.
 

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,705
117
106
I'm able to run with higher settings but the game play feels sluggish. Might be the servers I'm in. Gotta try more game play.
 

loccothan

Senior member
Mar 8, 2013
268
2
81
loccothan.blogspot.com
For now in Mantle im able to play BF4 Ultra Set 1920:1440 & 2xAA with Medium Qual.
Very playable its better thn DX11.1 more smooth and "vivid graphics"
PII x6 3.82Ghz XFX Default +10% Power set.
In multi i can Play 1920:1440 Ultra but no-AA for smooth Play i set 1600:1200 Ultra and is OK so the difference is Colosal for Me.
Still im waiting for the better Betas than 14.16 with Opt. for HD7xxx Ghz
But is OK for now
And Star Swarm :

DX:

== Hardware Configuration =================================
GPU: AMD Radeon HD 7900 Series
CPU: AuthenticAMD
AMD Phenom(tm) II X6 1100T Processor
Physical Cores: 6
Logical Cores: 6
Physical Memory: 8483516416
Allocatable Memory: 140737488224256
===========================================================


== Configuration ==========================================
API: DirectX
Scenario: ScenarioAttract.csv
User Input: Disabled
Resolution: 1920x1080
Fullscreen: True
GameCore Update: 16.6 ms
Bloom Quality: High
PointLight Quality: High
ToneCurve Quality: High
Glare Overdraw: 16
Shading Samples: 64
Shade Quality: Mid
Deferred Contexts: Disabled
Temporal AA Duration: 16
Temporal AA Time Slice: 2
Detailed Frame Info: Off
===========================================================


== Results ================================================
Test Duration: 360 Seconds
Total Frames: 7831

Average FPS: 21.75
Average Unit Count: 3818
Maximum Unit Count: 5253
Average Batches/MS: 579.65
Maximum Batches/MS: 885.39
Average Batch Count: 26694
Maximum Batch Count: 115246
===========================================================

Mantle:

== Hardware Configuration =================================
GPU: AMD Radeon HD 7900 Series
CPU: AuthenticAMD
AMD Phenom(tm) II X6 1100T Processor
Physical Cores: 6
Logical Cores: 6
Physical Memory: 8483516416
Allocatable Memory: 140737488224256
===========================================================


== Configuration ==========================================
API: Mantle
Scenario: ScenarioAttract.csv
User Input: Disabled
Resolution: 1920x1080
Fullscreen: True
GameCore Update: 16.6 ms
Bloom Quality: High
PointLight Quality: High
ToneCurve Quality: High
Glare Overdraw: 16
Shading Samples: 64
Shade Quality: Mid
Deferred Contexts: Disabled
Temporal AA Duration: 16
Temporal AA Time Slice: 2
Detailed Frame Info: Off
===========================================================


== Results ================================================
Test Duration: 360 Seconds
Total Frames: 15455

Average FPS: 42.93
Average Unit Count: 4200
Maximum Unit Count: 5402
Average Batches/MS: 914.45
Maximum Batches/MS: 1932.13
Average Batch Count: 23398
Maximum Batch Count: 140964
===========================================================

go Go AMD
 
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