AMD Beema/Mullins Launch Thread

[AtenRa]

Pffft, test it with Haswell mobile, not Sandy Bridge. And yes, Atoms are still crap, we know.

You do realize its not positioned against Haswell but ATOM, the Sandybridge Core i3 was only for reference.

 

[raghu78]

Actually the performance deficit in Gaming is from 1333L memory on the Mullins platform vs 1600L in A4-5000.

Thats only one of the reasons. The 4.5w TDP limit is the major reason. A4-5000 can consistently run all 4 cores at 1.5 Ghz and the GPU at 500 mhz in a game or 3D benchmark. For Mullins thats difficult in a TDP thats just 30% of the A4-5000 TDP.

 

[Shivansps]

This is an SoC APU with R6 graphics, i dont see why you have such a problem with its naming.




Since it can finish Cinebench MT faster than Baytrail D it means that it can operate at adequate time at high Turbo frequency for most applications.

Not even Beema has an A10 or R6, the name its intended to create PR confunsion, end of story.

Actually, the Cinebench MT is bad, its slightly better than BT, but that means clock is below 1.5ghz, what is the base freq?

But ST performance is better and thats good, overall is very good to have higher ST and similar MT compared to Z3770.
We need to check power now, and temps, ignore TDP, remember that Z3770 has a TDP of about 4W, with 2W SDP, and has similar clock and perf compared to a 10W J1900.

 

[rtsurfer]

Anandtech's up guys,
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7974/...hitecture-a10-micro-6700t-performance-preview

 

[AtenRa]

Thats only one of the reasons. The 4.5w TDP limit is the major reason. A4-5000 can consistently run all 4 cores at 1.5 Ghz and the GPU at 500 mhz in a game or 3D benchmark. For Mullins thats difficult in a TDP thats just 30% of the A4-5000 TDP.

I dont disagree, obviously Mullins cannot keep the same frequencies as A4-5000 all the time.

 

[coercitiv]

Not even Beema has an A10 or R6, the name its intended to create PR confunsion, end of story.

Please make another thread about AMD and/or Intel naming schemes. Thank you in advance.

 

[erunion]

Amazing performance from a 4.5W TDP Tablet, outperforms 10W TDP Desktop Baytrail and come very close to 25W TDP AM1 5350, just amazing.

Its so amazingly efficient that they won't talk about battery life.

Mullins is a solid generational improvement while using the same die. Just like Richland was. But Temash was a larger step up over Brazos.

And like Richland, Mullins will offer anyone already buying AMD a decent bump, but won't move the marketshare needle meaningfully.
In recent years it has been claimed that every AMD release (to borrow a phrase) "Changes everything. Again." But we have seen where they ended up, so i'll reserve judgement for awhile.

Now AMDs recent comments about contrarevenue make sense. They obviously had Mullins and the Discovery reference tablet on their minds during the earnings report. It seems that, despite their lack of success so far, AMD is really serious about getting into tablets. I wonder if Intel's new OEM relationships put AMD back into "maybe next year" mode.

 

[AtenRa]

Actually, the Cinebench MT is bad, its slightly better than BT, but that means clock is below 1.5ghz, what is the base freq?

Actually Cinebench MT is quite nice, Base freq for A10-micro 6700T is 1.2GHz with 2.2GHz turbo.

 

[raghu78]

I dont disagree, obviously Mullins cannot keep the same frequencies as A4-5000 all the time.

I am waiting for the A6-5310 Beema SKU to be reviewed. 2.4 Ghz max turbo and GPU turbo of 800 Mhz. This chip will be significantly faster than A4-5000 across the board at the same TDP. Would like to see a BF4 Mantle 720p version run at medium settings. I think 30 fps on BF4 might be a reality on a low power notebook.

 

[AtenRa]

Its so amazingly efficient that they won't talk about battery life.

Mullins is a solid generational improvement while using the same die. Just like Richland was. But Temash was a larger step up over Brazos.

And like Richland, Mullins will offer anyone already buying AMD a decent bump, but won't move the marketshare needle meaningfully.
In recent years it has been claimed that every AMD release (to borrow a phrase) "Changes everything. Again." But we have seen where they ended up, so i'll reserve judgement for awhile.

Now AMDs recent comments about contrarevenue make sense. They obviously had Mullins and the Discovery reference tablet on their minds during the earnings report. It seems that, despite their lack of success so far, AMD is really serious about getting into tablets. I wonder if Intel's new OEM relationships put AMD back into "maybe next year" mode.

You know what i see here today ?? AMD having the best SoC in the market for Windows 8.1 Tablets. That must be the most embarasing, humiliating time in Intel's history. A near death AMD with a fraction of R&D having the best SoC in the market, truly amazing.
It takes Intel 1B of contra revenue to bribe OEMs in to taking its Baytrail ATOMs. The Big Intel with billions of dollars need to resort to Contra-Revenue tactics because all the R&D money and its Process lead is not enough.
I dont know about you, but if Intel will continue the same tactics it will get a low suit from the entire industry.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Its so amazingly efficient that they won't talk about battery life.

Mullins is a solid generational improvement while using the same die. Just like Richland was. But Temash was a larger step up over Brazos.

And like Richland, Mullins will offer anyone already buying AMD a decent bump, but won't move the marketshare needle meaningfully.
In recent years it has been claimed that every AMD release (to borrow a phrase) "Changes everything. Again." But we have seen where they ended up, so i'll reserve judgement for awhile.

Now AMDs recent comments about contrarevenue make sense. They obviously had Mullins and the Discovery reference tablet on their minds during the earnings report. It seems that, despite their lack of success so far, AMD is really serious about getting into tablets. I wonder if Intel's new OEM relationships put AMD back into "maybe next year" mode.

Mullins is a solid improvement over Temash and actually quite nice on the performance side of things. Unfortunately, these are performance numbers of top binned silicon, in a bulky 11.6" reference tablet, with no power consumption number to speak of.

The real test will be whether these products (Beema/Mullins) can defend AMD's share in the low end PC market. If AMD can execute on the design win front, and assuming the chips are as good as these previews make them look, then AMD might be able to do well in this space.

That said, the majority of the tablet market is Android and 7-8", so that fundamental problem isn't solved. But just stopping the PC share bleed could be enough for now. Makes me wonder, though, why AMD is bothering with ARM microserver chips when Puma+ seems so well suited to that market. Hmm...

 

[Arachnotronic]

You know what i see here today ?? AMD having the best SoC in the market for Windows 8.1 Tablets. That must be the most embarasing, humiliating time in Intel's history. A near death AMD with a fraction of R&D having the best SoC in the market, truly amazing.
It takes Intel 1B of contra revenue to bribe OEMs in to taking its Baytrail ATOMs. The Big Intel with billions of dollars need to resort to Contra-Revenue tactics because all the R&D money and its Process lead is not enough.
I dont know about you, but if Intel will continue the same tactics it will get a low suit from the entire industry.

Do you think the bill of materials for Mullins is any better than Bay Trail-T's? In fact, since Mullins is just binned Beema silicon I would imagine that AMD's platforms are significantly more expensive to implement in tablets thus necessitating the "contra-revenue" support.

 

[Shivansps]

No, i will not let got about the name, i was already piss off about calling R7 to the 7850K, they never did that until they adopted the Rx naming. Calling R6 to a 500mhz 128SP GCN 1.0... they think im a idiot? Tell me whats the difference to the R2 500mhz 128SP GCN 1.0 on Beema E2-6110? Why im the only one that see something wrong in here? and why i need to shut up about it?

You know what i see here today ?? AMD having the best SoC in the market for Windows 8.1 Tablets. That must be the most embarasing, humiliating time in Intel's history. A near death AMD with a fraction of R&D having the best SoC in the market, truly amazing.
It takes Intel 1B of contra revenue to bribe OEMs in to taking its Baytrail ATOMs. The Big Intel with billions of dollars need to resort to Contra-Revenue tactics because all the R&D money and its Process lead is not enough.
I dont know about you, but if Intel will continue the same tactics it will get a low suit from the entire industry.

Its a little early to say that, what about power and temps? When the A4-1200 was launched it also crushed Cedar Trail at tablets, but no one used it because of power and temps, OEM had to place them on cheap 14,15" notebook to get rid of them.

 

[AtenRa]

Do you think the bill of materials for Mullins is any better than Bay Trail-T's? In fact, since Mullins is just binned Beema silicon I would imagine that AMD's platforms are significantly more expensive to implement in tablets thus necessitating the "contra-revenue" support.

That's why AMD doesnt targets 7-8" Android Tablets. But Noooo, Intel needs 40-60millions tablets sales and the only way to do it is contra revenue.

 

[Arachnotronic]

That's why AMD doesnt targets 7-8" Android Tablets. But Noooo, Intel needs 40-60millions tablets sales and the only way to do it is contra revenue.

And with Broxton/SoFIA, the BoM problem goes away and all of a sudden these chips you mock Intel for selling "for a loss" suddenly become profitable sockets and a base from which to grow.

When Intel is shipping, oh, 80 million or so tablet chips in 2015, contra-revenue-free, the folks who kept mocking Intel for supporting Bay Trail will finally realize that it was actually quite a smart move.

80 million tablet chips sold at 50% margins at $15/piece is $1.2 billion in sales and $600 million in positive gross margin. That's a winning business strategy crafted by a company with a clear long-term view of what it needs to do to succeed.

Pimping an 11.6" bulky reference tablet with top-bin silicon and highlighting how fast the chip is will do wonders for winning over the "anybody-but-Intel" folks and the "AMD 4 ever" guys, but unless this "superiority" can translate into design wins and ultimately profit, it's worthless.

Let's see what designs Mullins will win and let's see how real shipping devices perform

 

[AtenRa]

From my perspective, AMD needs to come to a price agreement with Microsoft about Windows Tablets. Only then Windows and AMD will gain market share.

We had $300 11.6" windows Netops a few years back, they could make a $300 10.1" or 11.6" Windows 8.1 Tablet today with Mullins. I would gladly spend more for a nice Windows 10.6" Tablet than a cheap 7-8" Android tablet.

 

[ViRGE]

We are not having a contra-revenue discussion in this thread. Discuss chips. Business goes in another thread
-ViRGE

 

[AtenRa]

And with Broxton/SoFIA, the BoM problem goes away and all of a sudden these chips you mock Intel for selling "for a loss" suddenly become profitable sockets and a base from which to grow.

Sofia will have lower BoM ok, it is on TSMC 28nm. Broxton on a new heavily expensive 14nm process is not going to be cheap.

When Intel is shipping, oh, 80 million or so tablet chips in 2015, contra-revenue-free, the folks who kept mocking Intel for supporting Bay Trail will finally realize that it was actually quite a smart move.

First lets see if Intel will sell 40millions in 2014 with Contra-Revenue and then we talk about 80millins in 2015 with out Contra Revenue.

Pimping an 11.6" bulky reference tablet with top-bin silicon and highlighting how fast the chip is will do wonders for winning over the "anybody-but-Intel" folks and the "AMD 4 ever" guys, but unless this "superiority" can translate into design wins and ultimately profit, it's worthless.

As i have said before, i would gladly spend $300 for a 10-11" Windows Tablet than $200 for 7-8" Android, no matter if it is AMD or Intel.

Let's see what designs Mullins will win and let's see how real shipping devices perform

I will agree, no matter if you have the best product, what matters in the end is how many did you sold.

 

[AtenRa]

Ok sorry enough of the OT.

 

[cbn]

Makes me wonder, though, why AMD is bothering with ARM microserver chips when Puma+ seems so well suited to that market. Hmm...

I am assuming Puma+ SOC has two SATA ports just like Kabini (BGA and AM1) and just like Kyoto.

Two sata ports?

Two.

Why only two?

(Yes, I understand Laptops at most only require two SATA. One for 2.5" SSD or 2.5" HDD and one for optical drive.......but isn't there so much more potential beyond this considering the Kabini AM1 cat cores have AES-NI and are ECC capable)

Is adding two more SATA (to bring to total to four) something that drives up silicon die size too much?

How many mm2 for each SATA on 28nm?

I would just love to have a cat core MINI-ITX with ECC and four native SATA ports. Compared to what something from Intel costs with those features it would probably be a real bargain.

 

[Arachnotronic]

From my perspective, AMD needs to come to a price agreement with Microsoft about Windows Tablets. Only then Windows and AMD will gain market share.

We had $300 11.6" windows Netops a few years back, they could make a $300 10.1" or 11.6" Windows 8.1 Tablet today with Mullins. I would gladly spend more for a nice Windows 10.6" Tablet than a cheap 7-8" Android tablet.

I think the work Intel is doing to keep ARM out of Windows will directly benefit AMD since AMD can be a decent second source if its chips are competitive. AMD, in turn, being competitive will ease concerns of a monopolistic Intel in Windows tablets.

Windows RT is dead.

 

[Ancalagon44]

I wonder when/if these are coming to desktop?

A mini ITX platform with one of these would be pretty sweet. Will the stricter memory standards mean it is impossible for these to come out for desktop now?

 

[monstercameron]

Assuming CPU-Z was reading the sensors correctly, the chip idled at 997MHz with a .24V core voltage. When running a single-threaded workload, the chip would peak at 2.195GHz at .925V, and with a multi-threaded workload the chip would run at 1.596GHz at .575V. Now, these clocks weren’t constant—they fluctuated quickly as the APU churned through a workload (AMD claims the APUs can switch between power states within single digit micro-second time intervals, and switch from full system idle to higher power states in the tens of microseconds, including voltage changes and bringing up the clocks), but they give you an idea of how the chips run in a passively cooled device.

very interesting

http://hothardware.com/Reviews/AMD-...nstream-and-LowPower-2014-APUs-Tested/?page=3

I need some sleep.

 

[Ancalagon44]

very interesting

Sorry where is that from? Which link?

 

[ViRGE]

very interesting

http://hothardware.com/Reviews/AMD-...nstream-and-LowPower-2014-APUs-Tested/?page=3

I need some sleep.

Unfortunately there's no chance in heck that CPU-Z is reading that right. You need a minimum voltage to keep a transistor on, which in turn is a function of the manufacturing node (it has a technical name at the moment that escapes me). While TSMC doesn't publish that data, no logic node I've ever seen can operate at that low of a voltage. Based on other TSMC products that minimum has to be at least 0.6v, if not higher.