AMD Bristol/Stoney Ridge Thread

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ao_ika_red

Golden Member
Aug 11, 2016
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It's also in an AM4 socket, so you could at least upgrade to a decent CPU down the line. With the 845 you're stuck.
Well, if you already had FM2+ APU, there's small incentive to get BR APU. Unless you're in dire need of capable APU and didn't have any APU system at all.
 

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
971
360
136
Another BR vid, but I don't get some people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyHCt9NpDjk

The dude uses DDR4-3600 ! but of course downclocked to the requiured 2400 mhz which meand CAS latency will go through the roof and seriously degrade performance on these APUs (which do not come with L3 to offset high latencies). No wonder he didn't see perf increases when overclocking.
 
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Asterox

Golden Member
May 15, 2012
1,028
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Short iGPU PUBG comparison, 70$ A8-9600 vs 200$ i3 8350K 720p Low setings.


 

hojnikb

Senior member
Sep 18, 2014
562
45
91
I'm building an AM4 media playback build. Does bristol ridge have any kind of HEVC 10 bit support (hybrid or otherwise) or do i have to wait for zen based apus ?
 

Jan Olšan

Senior member
Jan 12, 2017
312
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Nope, it would have to decode in software (the quads should be able to do 1080p, although perhaps not at 60fps at high bitrate).

Got to wait for Zen-based ones. They might launch in january-february, acording to this: http://www.gdm.or.jp/crew/2017/1119/243271/2 (mobo vendor people at that event said "early in 2018").
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,269
5,134
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I'm building an AM4 media playback build. Does bristol ridge have any kind of HEVC 10 bit support (hybrid or otherwise) or do i have to wait for zen based apus ?

Don't think it does. Doesn't Kabylake support it? You could always go with that.
 

The Stilt

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2015
1,709
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I'm building an AM4 media playback build. Does bristol ridge have any kind of HEVC 10 bit support (hybrid or otherwise) or do i have to wait for zen based apus ?

Carrizo and Bristol Ridge only support Main format. Stoney Ridge and Raven Ridge support Main10 as well.
Stoney Ridge is not available on AM4 package.
 
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ET

Senior member
Oct 12, 1999
521
33
91
I'm building an AM4 media playback build. Does bristol ridge have any kind of HEVC 10 bit support (hybrid or otherwise) or do i have to wait for zen based apus ?

I won't recommend integrated graphics for a media build. There's no AM4 motherboard I'm aware of that supports more than HDMI 1.4, while all discrete cards support 2.0b. Also, far as I know, AMD doesn't yet support PlayReady 3.0, which limits certain kinds of playback (like Netflix) in 4K. Intel and NVIDIA do support it.

So unless you absolutely can't use a discrete card, I'd suggest a Ryzen + GeForce 1030 build (or Athlon X4 950 if you want to save). If you have to use integrated graphics then the only choice, though expensive, is Intel (which has some expensive HDMI 2.0 motherboards and its CPU's have all the necessary video support).

Or wait to see how things develop on AMD's side.
 

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
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I'm building an AM4 media playback build. Does bristol ridge have any kind of HEVC 10 bit support (hybrid or otherwise) or do i have to wait for zen based apus ?

Arse states that yes for decode, it does support H.265:

"There's also support for HDMI 2.0 (finally), PCIe 3.0, and built-in hardware decoding for MPEG, H.265, and VP9 video up to 4K resolutions."
https://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2016/06/amd-fx-bristol-ridge-apu-specs-performance/

It should be fine for office and media (mainstream stuff) and even does some quite impressive casual gaming. Nice iGPU if you go with A12 (512 SPs) match it with 2400 DDR4, if A8 or A10 (cut down iGPU) then even 2133 should do well enough. I recommend the lowest CAS latency memory that's still affordable, since excavator APUs lack an L3 cache.
 
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LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
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Each of these processors supports the following display modes:

- DVI, 1920x1200 at 60 Hz
- DisplayPort 1.2a, 4096x2160 at 60 Hz (FreeSync supported)
- HDMI 2.0, 4096x2160 at 60 Hz
- eDP, 2560x1600 at 60 Hz

Technically the processor will support three displays, with any mix of the above. Analog video via VGA can be supported by a DP-to-VGA converter chip on the motherboard or via an external dongle.

For codec support, Bristol Ridge can do the following (natively unless specified):

- MPEG2 Main Profile at High Level (IDCT/VLD)
- MPEG4 Part 2 Advanced Simple Profile at Level 5
- MJPEG 1080p at 60 FPS
- VC1 Simple and Main Profile at High Level (VLD), Advanced Profile at Level 3 (VLD)
- H.264 Constrained Baseline/Main/High/Stereo High Profile at Level 5.2
- HEVC 8-bit Main Profile Decode Only at Level 5.2
- VP9 decode is a hybrid solution via the driver, using CPU and GPU

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1070...e-and-am4-analysis-a12-9800-b350-a320-chipset
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,689
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22FDX+ is coming out soon; ALD-SiBCN spacers, Gate-first FMG TiAl/TiN/TiSix or whatever, and a 15nm BOX. I do not know if it has a shrink. It is optimized for high speed/high performance chips. While 22FDX/12FDX are optimized for low power/low cost chips. Yes, there is a 12FDX+ node that uses the above. (12FDX base uses 20nm BOX like 22FDX does, 12FDX+ uses 15nm box like 22FDX+ does)

The reason why it is important. 28nm HPA Bristol Ridge is maybe getting the port to 22nm FDX+. Apparently(maybe), the Atari VCS will be using the 22FDX+ version not the 28HPA version.

Speculation;
Banded Kestral's platform is now the platform of future not-just-a-shrink BR.
- Quad-core
- Vega 6 / 8?
- 64-bit LPDDR4-4266; DDR4-1866(128-bit => 29.8 Gigabyte/s) vs LPDDR4-4266(64-bit => 34.128 Gigabyte/s) (8 gigabyte package or 16 gigabyte package is possible)

//post-edit:
ED1(Extend Discussion 1):
22FDX+ is has less process steps than 22FDX. However, the steps are slightly more error prone. Other than that on paper 22FDX+ costs less than 22FDX. The lower cost hopefully pushes customers to more risky solutions. 22FDX+ is on par with 12FDX in performance and power. Area is a nope, and cost should be less than 12FDX.

ED2:
The shrink might also not use ported down Excavator macros. Which might mean it isn't really just Excavator. Making it overall not just a Bristol Ridge A10.
 
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Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,167
3,862
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I won't recommend integrated graphics for a media build. There's no AM4 motherboard I'm aware of that supports more than HDMI 1.4, while all discrete cards support 2.0b..

Support is in function of the APU not of the connector, there s no HDMI 2.0 connector, and precisely RR support HDMI 2.0....

https://smallformfactor.net/forum/t...am4-motherboard-test-request-megathread.6709/

Verified HDMI 2.0-compatible AM4 motherboards:
 

burninatortech4

Senior member
Jan 29, 2014
704
437
136
I wanted to share my initial impressions of my new Dell Inspiron 3180 (AMD based netbook).

This is a passively cooled, 6 watt TDP Stoney Ridge netbook (A6-9220e), with 4GB (single channel) 2400mhz RAM, and 32GB eMMC. 1366x768 11.6" TN. USB 3 and HDMI (2.0?).

Pros - It's surprisingly capable for light internet browsing, basic productivity, and media consumption (with its modern decode/encode). I've been getting around 8 hours of battery life (battery saver mode, internet browsing - less for movies). Threw in a 64GB Mini-SD card for storage.

Cons - Poor screen, throttles under sustained workloads, USB 2.0 SD card bus, and slow (for anything other than the above). All expected for this price bracket.

I didn't realize (correct me if wrong) that Stoney Ridge has essentially the same UVD 6.3 as Polaris. I still have to verify if the HDMI port is HDMI 2.0 (Stoney Ridge is supposed to support it). Overall, I'm very happy with it for the price.



 
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ET

Senior member
Oct 12, 1999
521
33
91
The reason why it is important. 28nm HPA Bristol Ridge is maybe getting the port to 22nm FDX+. Apparently(maybe), the Atari VCS will be using the 22FDX+ version not the 28HPA version.

Very interesting. Thanks for posting. Looking forward to seeing what turns up eventually.
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,655
138
106
So Nosta, Stoney Ridge will go to 22nm?
It could go up to 3.5 Ghz or try to emulate Atom by reducing consumption...
 

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
971
360
136
Apparently(maybe), the Atari VCS will be using the 22FDX+ version not the 28HPA version.

I really don't think so. Ataribox is a small trial scale project, so BR is perfect for it. If it's successful I could imagine something like the above happening to a 2nd gen vcs or ataribox=ataribox vcs2 (although it's still a bit of a stretch).

The current picture of BR is that most full 512SPs dies go to mostly A12-9730p (which end up mostly in good mid-hi range all-in-ones), and a few to the A12 AM4 desktops. The cut down 384SPs mostly go to A12 laptops, and A10 and A8's for both laptop and desktop AM4. The news was that ataribox was supposed to get an A10 BR, so this points to 384 SPs matched with 1866-2133 DDR4; I still have a tiny bit of hope we could get pleasantly surprised and that ataribox gets their own SKU with some extra GPU units (like an almost full set, at 448 SPs)
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,689
1,223
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So Nosta, Stoney Ridge will go to 22nm?
It could go up to 3.5 Ghz or try to emulate Atom by reducing consumption...
Stoney Ridge's design 2C/3CU isn't getting the port, but Bristol Ridge's design 4C/8CU is.

22FDX+ if everything is included (confirmed(SiBCN spacers+15nm BOX)+unconfirmed(New Titanium gate stack(scalable to sub-5nm)+potential shrink+cobalt MOL)) then 3.5 GHz isn't the limit. 22FDX+ with the A9-9420 would be 5.1 GHz(base)/5.4 GHz(boost)/1.44 GHz(iGPU) w/ a 10 watt TDP. (70% perf boost and 40% power shrink and ~30% lower cost).

I am saying Bristol Ridge, but it isn't actually Bristol Ridge. It is a hawk design with the 4C/8CU design.

//Not related to the quote, but is related to the reply.
Now my theory of the speculation pipeline;
Zen-Lite -> Broadcom Vulcan -> 15h architecture

//section 1a
Patent #A shows a 2 ALU + 2 AGU design with the Mapper and the individual ALUQ and AGUQ from Zen.
Patent #B points to a unified scheduler Mapper(Int Core) and NSQ(FPU) effectively fused. Which means that there is a FPUQ as well, not sure if it is FPUQU(Unified FPU queue) or FPUQ0-2(Individual FPU queues).
Patent #C points to a unified cluster; Integer + Memory + Floating Point. It isn't a matrix of ports like Intel's core series. Instead, the FPU instruction path coalesces with the Integer core rename. While, it is also diverges into a separate function unit. Dispatch goes to one cluster than two clusters in regards to Integer + FPU in standard 15h designs.

Taking that information in application patents...(not sure when they'll be granted)..
2 ALUs ALUQ0-ALUQ1
2 AGUs AGUQ0-AGUQ1
1 FMAC(P0 from Excavator)+1 FMUL(P0 from Zen)+1 FADD(P2 from Zen) (Complex FMACs are handled by P0, and Simple FMACs are handled by P1+P2) FPUQx
^- that is all for one core. There is two cores in a module. So; 4 ALUs/4 AGUs/6 FPUs in module. In theory, the ideal decode is the 4-wide Zen decode split between the two cores. (2-wide for each core)

// section 1b
Broadcom Vulcan comes from Patent #D; which hint at Vulcan's successor SVE implementation ported to x86.
US9880848B2
US9336004B2 <-- this one "The set of architectural registers may include 48 registers: 16 integer registers and 32 floating-point registers."
SVE is Z0-Z31 and AVX512 is XYZMM0-31, while ARMv8 has 31 integer registers, but x86 has 16 integer registers. So, it is clearly x86-AVX512.
(AVX512VL gets compressed into RISC SVE-like ops; if you didn't get what I was inferring.)

Also, note the patents are ASF/TSX related.

// section 1c
Everything in Zen-Lite is also in Zen; the full Zen macro suite is the same. In this case, though Zen-Lite is a swap of the Excavator macros(which were Bulldozer-derived not Zen-derived). (If Zen-Lite was Jaguar-based it would have a Load AGU and Store AGU.) Overall, the core provides the same capabilities just better. While, mostly if not fully utilizing Zen macros in the physical design. Zen is effectively the Skylake-X/Icelake-Server core, while Zen-lite is the Skylake/Icelake-Mainstream core.

Zen-Lite rather than get a new front-end, reuses the Zen front-end. This in turn locks Zen-Lite to a Cluster-based Multithreading architecture. SMT2 to CMT2 conversion is easy with a capable front-end that can do either SMT or CMT.


// section 2 of speculation
22FDX is meant for Low Power and MRAM-F applications. (MRAM-F = Flash-replace)
22FDX+ is meant for High Performance and MRAM-S applications. (MRAM-S = SRAM-replace)((MRAM-S is pSTT-MRAM))

The L2 cache in a CMT design would definitely benefit from MRAM. The L2 in Excavator and Zen is mostly 6T SRAM. So, standard MRAM-S(1MTJ+1T), not the high performance MRAM-S (2MTJ+4T or something). 1 MB of MRAM is about the same size as 256 KB SRAM; perf/power is better with the MRAM cache. (I do not think MRAM will be used.)
https://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/event/734644.html <--- IPC/EPI benchmark with MRAM.
L2 in this appears to be 2T/2MTJ.. so uh okay.

// section 3;
Only 1 foundry for 12LP/7LP; Malta.
Has no copy-exact backups.
Only 5 foundries for 22FDX; Chengdu GloFo, Fab2 HLMC(HHFab6), Crolles2 STM, Agrate STM, Dresden GloFo. (STM is rebuilding Crolles2 and building a new 300mm Fab in Agrate).
China has 1 backup for 22nm FDSOI and Europe has 2 back ups for 22nm FDSOI. (All copy-exact; 1 design can be pushed to any foundry.)
 
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dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,655
138
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I can hardly see 5Ghz at 22 nm on 10 Watts....

And the Hawk design is not Zen uARCH?

And why not 14nm for sub 15 watts?
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
5,600
8,790
136
Just enjoy Nosta for what he/she is, entertainment. Nosta constantly writes wild speculation that never comes true and is usually no where close. Reading Nosta's posts is like being on vicodin, don't think too hard about it and just enjoy the ride.
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,689
1,223
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I can hardly see 5Ghz at 22 nm on 10 Watts....
https://www.globalfoundries.com/technologies/leading-edge-technologies/22fdx-feb2017
https://www.globalfoundries.com/sites/default/files/22fdx-flexible.jpg
FX-9800P => P-State FID 0x7 - VID 0x58 - IDD 6 (11.50x - 1.000 V) // 2.3 GHz @ 1V
2.3 GHz * 1.5x (No BB) => 3.45 GHz
Utilizing this graph; https://i1.wp.com/www.soiconsortium.eu/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/GF_FDSOI_FBBgraphic.jpg
5.8 watts * 1.18 => 6.844 watts
22FDX+ no BB or 22FDX w/ 1.5V or 0.5V/1.0V bias = 5.8 watts * 0.69x => 4.002 watts w/ 0.9V @ 3.45 GHz

If we follow the same scale for a boost;
FID 0xD - VID 0x3E - IDD 9 (14.50x - 1.162 V) 2.9 GHz @ 1.162V
2.9 GHz * 1.5x (No BB) => 4.35 GHz
10.11 watts * 1.18 => 11.93 watts
22FDX+ no BB or 22FDX w/ 1.5V or 0.5V/1.0V bias => 11.93 watts * 0.69x => 8.2317 watts @ 1.025V @ 4.35 GHz

Now 22FD+ w/ BB with Stoney Ridge 3 GHz and 3.6 GHz; New equations if you look at the graphs between each 22FDX dot there is a dot in between in the 22FDX w/BB slots.
3 GHz @ ~1.2V in ~12 watts * 1.7 => 5.1 GHz @ 1.05V in ~10.8 watts
3.6 GHz @ ~1.45V in ~18 watts * 1.5 => 5.4 GHz @ 1.3V in ~12.42 watts

Effectively dropping the TDP of a copy-exact shrink from 15Ws to 10Ws.
And the Hawk design is not Zen uARCH?

And why not 14nm for sub 15 watts?
22FDX = 14LPP; while it is half the total cost. (lower risk, lower cost, and better scavenging). 22FDX+ is cheaper while the wafer is a bit more expensive. It should be completely offset so the half cost stays.

The Zen architecture is too big for the GlobalFoundries Volume path.
https://images.anandtech.com/doci/12438/fab8_media_day_patton_final-page-005.jpg
22FDX+ will be on the Volume tier path where 12LP exists.

So, Zen-Lite must take the mantle. Zen-Lite however must utilize the same tiles as Zen to reduce design costs. While, also utilizing exclusive Zen-Lite tiles; hence why it mirrors 15h designs.

200 mm squared 22FDX/22FDX+ design will be half the cost of a 200 mm squared 14LPP/12LP design. 200 mm squared 22FDX(+) = 100 mm squared 14LPP(12LP).

"Value Mobile APU" -> Dali; None of the other ones state "Value" for the "2020 and beyond - cruising for sucess" which might make it a 12FDX+ version.
 
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NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,689
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Seronx... the Bulldozer family is dead. Just let it go!
New architecture! It is just you know 15h-ish!

Like how 16h and 17h is the same, 17h is well 16h-ish.


16h to the left, and 17h to the right. Get 17h to adopt 15h features.. boom... particularly "Zen-Lite" which is the single core without simultaneous multi-threading units and excessive resources.

https://i.imgur.com/dv6qyQB.jpg
Premium segment got an expansion... it is time to expand that mainstream "Value" segment. Since, not everyone plays video games or does cinema4d/blender/autodesk 3ds-maya/UE4 on a laptop.
 
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NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,269
5,134
136
Premium segment got an expansion... it is time to expand that mainstream "Value" segment. Since, not everyone plays video games or does cinema4d/blender/autodesk 3ds-maya/UE4 on a laptop.

I think you're misinterpreting that graph That's "TAM", or "Total Addressable Market"- i.e., it's the amount of potential sales out there, that they can try to address with their products. The whole point of that graph is to demonstrate that the bulk of the actual money out there, is in the "Premium" segments, and the "Mainstream" (i.e. craptop and budget desktops) segment is just not very valuable- and it's becoming a smaller portion of the overall market. That's why they've put all their focus on Zen, because that's where they can make big piles of money.
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,689
1,223
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I think you're misinterpreting that graph That's "TAM", or "Total Addressable Market"- i.e., it's the amount of potential sales out there, that they can try to address with their products. The whole point of that graph is to demonstrate that the bulk of the actual money out there, is in the "Premium" segments, and the "Mainstream" (i.e. craptop and budget desktops) segment is just not very valuable- and it's becoming a smaller portion of the overall market. That's why they've put all their focus on Zen, because that's where they can make big piles of money.
Mainstream is wider overall in the market. Expanding the mainstream profit margin is all about having a better product than the competitor. Mainstream can be sold into markets that naturally have low spending budgets. A product purchased is better than a product not purchased because it was too expensive.

Mainstream also supports the weight of the premium market. Testing and compiling as general performance goes to the mainstream product first. Then, to the higher performance product. So, it is important to have those dev kits be cheap!

If AMD launched a 22FDX product last year with a 15h-ish core. Raven Ridge could have looked a lot like Hades Canyon. As that market would have been satisfied with a decreased TDP chip that has increase effective performance. While, overall making more cash in the market place. Compared to the Pentium N4200/N5000 versus Raven Ridge which is losing money.

Raven Ridge isn't Trinity or Kaveri with a smaller die than its CPU counterpart. It costs just as much to produce Raven Ridge as it is to produce Summit Ridge. Every Summit Ridge die replaced by a Raven Ridge die is ~$200+ gone.

Malta is FinFETs and Dresden is FDSOI. There is no loss in supporting both tiers of Premium and Volume. While there is a loss when FinFETs are expected to do both at one foundry. There is also Chendgu... which is in China with the largest population of social gamers ever. Monolithic cheap APUs... so much margins and the winner goes to Nintendo Switch and Nvidia.
 
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