AMD Bristol/Stoney Ridge Thread

[dark zero]

Seronx projective speculation(non-final, subject to change at any time as more info arrives):

- <30% IPC(instructions per cycle) increase, >30% EPI(energy per instruction) increase. (Dual IPC & Frequency boost.)
- Bulk to SOI, Ultra-wide frequency and voltage range(UWFVR), Panoptic adaptive voltage bias scaling(PAVBS), and PAVFS(panoptic adaptive voltage frequency scaling).
- Fusion of Bristol/Stoney SKUs @ sub-180 mm² on 22FDX
- Two modules and four NCUs @ sub-10 watt w/ Micro-FX/A APUs and 15W+ w/ normal FX/A APUs.
- Some CPU architectural speculation...
* 128 KB L1i // 2x 64 KB L1d // 512 KB L2 // 4 MB L3 (Shared between modules)

Largest assumption:
If it hasn't appeared in Zen, it will appear in next gen CMT/Bulldozer/15h derived architectures.

Closest previous AMD likeness;
AMD T-bird to Thorton.

And how about Mediatek using the AMD K12 project or something like that?

 

[Insert_Nickname]

While I agree with this in principle, I saw something quite silly in a NewEgg review that opened my eyes on the matter:

...

Seriously? People are so used to iGPUs on Intel rigs that they don't even stop to think that some systems have no iGPU!

No matter what you do, you can't fix something like that...

Most people who don't care about gaming also will find that 4c/4t CPU horsepower of BR more than enough. BR on desktop already exists, is used in OEM PCs, and is available for DIY in Germany/Europe and China. The time and availability in the US is disappointing, but there is little doubt that eventually it will make its way here this year.

The only thing that makes sense now is concurrent official US launch with Ryzen 3.

This way US consumers will have it laid out: Strong GPU + slightly weaker CPU at mostly sub $100 (A10) prices, or slightly faster 4-thread quadcore CPU at slightly higher price, > $100, and with bring your own GPU.

Since Summit Ridge is an 8-core design and yields for 8 cores are good, there would not be enough quadcore production (without wasteful measures) without BR quads complementing Ryzen 3. So it is very much needed until native RR quad arrives for desktop.

Then they'd have no problem using Kaveri/Godavari either, and get the benefits of a very mature platform too. AM4, while getting better, isn't really "ready" for prime time. That'll change when RR launches. I'd expect to see a few low-end BR for the value segment then too.

I think that BR is mainly a PR problem. It wouldn't get good reviews and it would be hard for reviewers to find a real use case for it. It would only dilute the the reputation of the AM4 platform.

My point exactly.

 

[VirtualLarry]

AMD needs an AM4 APU before the Zen apu comes out next year.

I agree with that.

Edit: That they need an AM4 APU ASAP. I don't agree that the Zen APU is coming out next year. I thought that it was coming in Aug.? Or is that Ryzen 3, and the APU really isn't coming until next year? Ouch.

So much for Joe Sixpack / mainstream (non-enthusiast) consumers adopting AM4 in droves.

Content creators? Yes. Engineers? Yes. Video editors? Yes. Gamers? Yes.

Joe Sixpack? Only when you can get a $300-400 AM4-based PC at Walmart.

 

[formulav8]

I thought that it was coming in Aug.? Or is that Ryzen 3, and the APU really isn't coming until next year? Ouch.

No sir, mobile only Ryzen apu afaik this year. R3 yes but not apu. No dt Ryzen apu this year.

 

[VirtualLarry]

If they have a working mobile AM4 APU, I don't see why they couldn't have a DT version sooner, but like BR, they may be prioritizing the market a bit differently than enthusiasts like myself want.

 

[jpiniero]

Desktop sales are in the toilet, be it Intel or AMD. PC Gaming has probably saved the desktop from extinction.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Desktop sales are in the toilet, be it Intel or AMD. PC Gaming has probably saved the desktop from extinction.

Yeah.

Someone in another thread pointed out a complete ZBox setup including pre-installed Win10 Home, for slightly over $200. (4GB RAM, expandable to 8GB, and 32GB storage, supposedly M.2, not eMMC)

Not too shabby, for a Mom-PC.

But then I started thinking, she doesn't even use the two desktop PCs that I built her, anymore. She just uses her laptop. (Edit: Which only has 2GB RAM, and runs 32-bit Windows. The two desktops have a 1037U, and an FM1 quad-core.)

So, for most people, why would they even bother with a desktop anymore?

Then again, I just repaired an older neighbor's desktop PC for them recently. (It was a Sandy Bridge, with a 320GB factory HDD.) So I guess it depends.

Edit: Aside from updating, a mini-PC / ITX / STX PC, to enable the newest video decode standards, there's really not all that much reason to upgrade most desktop PCs, that are primarily used for content consumption / web browsing.

Edit: Though, I would be glad to upgrade Mom's desktop PCs with Bristol Ridge, and some AM4 ITX boards, should the possibility arise, and the price not be too steep. ($100+$100+$100, for CPU/mobo/RAM)

 

[formulav8]

If they have a working mobile AM4 APU

Even mobile Ryzen apu cpu's won't be out until near the end of the year last I recall. Desktop APU versions are 1 or 2 quarters later.

 

[littleg]

What sort of single thread performance gains would BR offer over original Kaveri clock for clock? I have a 7400K in a rather rubbish HTPC that i'm thinking of upgrading but I can't find much info comparing the two unfortunately. Best estimate I can come to is about 15-20% faster CPU performance clock for clock. Is that in the ballpark?

 

[NTMBK]

What sort of single thread performance gains would BR offer over original Kaveri clock for clock? I have a 7400K in a rather rubbish HTPC that i'm thinking of upgrading but I can't find much info comparing the two unfortunately. Best estimate I can come to is about 15-20% faster CPU performance clock for clock. Is that in the ballpark?

You'd have to replace your motherboard and RAM, seems a bit silly for such a small improvement. Why not just upgrade to an A10-7800 and keep the rest of the system? Gives you double the shaders and double the cores, at the same TDP.

 

[littleg]

Yeah, I thought about that but it's only really used for playing video and TV and Sins of a solar empire which is very much single threaded. I run it at 4.2 GHz when I'm playing but I figured switching to the AM4 platform might give a nice boost and also give me a decent upgrade path in the future.

 

[DrMrLordX]

What sort of single thread performance gains would BR offer over original Kaveri clock for clock?

5-15% out of games.

Performance regression in games.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Yeah, I thought about that but it's only really used for playing video and TV and Sins of a solar empire which is very much single threaded. I run it at 4.2 GHz when I'm playing but I figured switching to the AM4 platform might give a nice boost and also give me a decent upgrade path in the future.

Then I'd suggest waiting until RR is released, the investment is not worth the gain.

You could look at the G4560. It'll give you a nice boost in single threaded workloads, and has HT unlike previous Pentiums. Cheap too, and you don't need anything more then a H110 board. Some of which can even handle DDR3 saving you a new DDR4 kit.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I would say either go for the best Kaveri you can get, or get a G4560. One will be an advancement in the iGPU arena while the other will be a major CPU advancement. Raven Ridge will be both, but that isn't for awhile yet (sadly).

 

[NostaSeronx]

What sort of single thread performance gains would BR offer over original Kaveri clock for clock? .... Best estimate I can come to is about 15-20% faster CPU performance clock for clock. Is that in the ballpark?

Around 5% IPC improvements and up to 10% CPI improvement. So, technically up to 15% single core perf improvement could be seen. The CPI improvements are specific to small loopy code(L1d -> 32KB) and branchy code(BTB increase). Excavator did decrease the L2 latency from like ~38 TSC to ~32 TSC, as well. Bristol/Stoney's Excavator reduced the power bubble

===
Not related to above; 22FDX more realistic numbers. (Checked out the PDK 116_CPP/104_CPP, etc only LVT/sLVT bias-able)

If Stoney Ridge was ported right now. (Min-effort(sub-40M $ dev + 9 month cycle) + no body biasing)
Using A9-9420...
CPU_HF_Base; 3000 MHz -> 3.9 GHz
CPU_HF_Boost; 3600 MHz -> 4.2 GHz
GPU_HF_Base; 800 MHz -> 1.2 GHz
NB_Max; 1100 MHz -> 1.5 GHz
DDR4_Max; 2400 MHz -> 3.2 GHz
TDP; 15W -> 9W.

 

[amd6502]

If they have a working mobile AM4 APU, I don't see why they couldn't have a DT version sooner, but like BR, they may be prioritizing the market a bit differently than enthusiasts like myself want.

It will be the BGA socket version (FP5) and tuned for lower wattages. I think there very well will be OEM desktops using these and perhaps they will have an upward adjustable TDP, ~40W hopefully. Such chips would be perfect for all-in-ones.

OEMs are getting the royal treatement compared to plebs.

The true desktop AM4 version maybe probably will take longer to hit the market because they may be aiming for higher frequencies than Summit Ridge. If it arrived using an improved version of 14LPP that would be nice.

If RR comes out Aug, my guess RR for AM4 launch about 6 months later. Thumbs crossed for Feb/March.

 

[littleg]

You'd have to replace your motherboard and RAM, seems a bit silly for such a small improvement. Why not just upgrade to an A10-7800 and keep the rest of the system? Gives you double the shaders and double the cores, at the same TDP.

Then I'd suggest waiting until RR is released, the investment is not worth the gain.

You could look at the G4560. It'll give you a nice boost in single threaded workloads, and has HT unlike previous Pentiums. Cheap too, and you don't need anything more then a H110 board. Some of which can even handle DDR3 saving you a new DDR4 kit.

I would say either go for the best Kaveri you can get, or get a G4560. One will be an advancement in the iGPU arena while the other will be a major CPU advancement. Raven Ridge will be both, but that isn't for awhile yet (sadly).

Cheers

Hadn't thought about going Intel, i'll maybe explore that route instead as sins isn't particularly graphically intensive but it hammers the CPU.

 

[amd6502]

Have you tried overvolting and overclocking that dual core to Godavari voltages of 1.45V? The top binned quads can hit 4.3GHz boost clocks at 1.45V. Seems like an OC of 4.2GHz on the A6 would usually be easy, as long as the cooler isn't garbage like the stock (rated at 65W TDP but even that's marginal)... and as long as case cooling is OK too---that's a challenge in most small form factor builds which also often can't fit normal/big sized coolers.

I think my A10-7860k did 4.3, but had problems at 4.4. (But it was running a cooler off a 95W APU rated for 125W). Probably running at over 100W on lo end fm2 board isn't the best idea, so 4.3 was a good place to stop for me.

Also, overclocking the iGPU on all Kaveris is easy and especially effective on the cut down 384 SPs but may add to wattage and cooling issues.

 

[formulav8]

Performance regression in games.

Shame they chopped the L2 cache in half. Would have been a solid improvement in everything if they weren't process limited and forced to chop off cache..

 

[DrMrLordX]

AMD was pretty limited in what they could/would do for Steamroller and Excavator. They threw all their eggs into the Zen basket and we all see the results. Regardless Carrizo/Bristol Ridge got the last of the scraps. We should be glad we got them at all as compared to the ill-fated 20nm cat cores.

 

[amd6502]

Its L2 cache was derived from Zen's L2. It's faster but smaller. Zen has an L3 so the impact of L2 being on the smaller side is reduced. I'm guessing a big factor in Athlon 845 not performing as well as Kaveri quads in certain games is mostly clockspeed. ~5%+ slower than Kaveri and 10%-14% slower than Godavari. Raw clockspeed counts for some things.

Bristol Ridge is unlocked (on B350 or higher chipsets) and so can be run higher and faster than with stock 65W TDP to around A12-9800's frequencies, which aren't bad at all.

AMD was pretty limited in what they could/would do for Steamroller and Excavator. They threw all their eggs into the Zen basket and we all see the results. Regardless Carrizo/Bristol Ridge got the last of the scraps. We should be glad we got them at all as compared to the ill-fated 20nm cat cores.

Exactly. It now fills the budget build range much like pentiums; its selling point is that purchasing a gaming card can be bypassed (for the lower resolutions); build cost is ultralow.

I'm pretty convinced now that BR will launch together with Ryzen 3. But when is Ryzen 3 supposed to launch??

 

[Jan Olšan]

Q3 ("towards the start of H2 2017"), my guess would be late july or early august.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

Is Ryzen R3 a separate die/mask from R5/7? Because if I were AMD I'd have two different dice, one for GPU-less R5/7 parts, and one for APUs that replaced the second CCX with all the iGPU logic. R3 CPUs would simply be Ravenridge APUs with the graphics logic fused out. Sounds wasteful, but probably no more so than making an R3 from an R5/7 die by lasering off the second CCX.

 

[Tee9000]

They said somewhere in March that all Ryzen 3/5/7 are based on the same 8 core die.

it’s worth pointing out that AMD has already previously commented that Ryzen 3 will use the same die as Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7, so we’re looking at 4 cores distributed over 2 CCXs, like the Ryzen 5 1400 & 1500X.

A recent source.

 

[NostaSeronx]

Bristol Ridge for Desktop is finally retail w/ a soft launch.

A12-9800 which is the top SKU is $99.99. (CPU+GPU)

(Still researching 8th(22FDX)/9th(12FDX) gen mainstream successors to BriR/StoR)