AMD Bristol/Stoney Ridge Thread

[ao_ika_red]

Still, I think it could handle desktop productivity tasks to a certain extent, along with media-playback. Think Kiosk machines. Could find a niche.

I don't think 9800 sku will become kiosk / office favourite, but 9700e (35W) will hit the spot just right.

 

[AtenRa]

The only case to use the A12-9800 as of now is for an USFF Gaming system that can be upgraded to RR next year, otherwise RR APUs cant come soon enought.

 

[mohit9206]

The only case to use the A12-9800 as of now is for an USFF Gaming system that can be upgraded to RR next year, otherwise RR APUs cant come soon enought.

A12-9800 is definitely a fail but RR apu aren't going to change the game either.
A $100 dedicated gpu and a cheap cpu will still always be faster.

 

[AtenRa]

A12-9800 is definitely a fail but RR apu aren't going to change the game either.
A $100 dedicated gpu and a cheap cpu will still always be faster.

Not for an USFF Gaming system, simple because you cannot install a dGPU

 

[NTMBK]

Not for an USFF Gaming system, simple because you cannot install a dGPU

I used to be in the "USFF gaming" boat, and had big plans to build a Kaveri based gaming PC to go under my TV. But in the end the gaming performance of Kaveri disappointed me and just wasn't sufficient, so I got myself an Alienware X51 R2. And you know what? It works great!

It's the size of a (large) games console, and sits in my shelving unit under the TV just like a console would. It has a fairly midrange GPU even by the standards of the day (R9 270), but it still beats the snot out of any APU to date (and I'm pretty confident it will still be significantly faster than Raven Ridge). And when it finally gets too slow for me, guess what? I can just replace it. The Haswell CPU should still be good for years to come.

I could have gone without a dGPU and crammed it into an even smaller chassis, but that would mean giving up about 2/3rds of my gaming performance. I don't think that's a worthwhile trade.

 

[Asterox]

Sorry but that A12-9800 had up to 10fps more than the A8-9600 (40fps vs 50fps) in the video, which is 25% higher. For an USFF Gaming system the A12-9800 is the best you can get at the price.

Seriously, you would pay 40$ more for 10fps more?

Did you see how much fps A8-9600 fires, and at what resolution in several games?

http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/amd-bristol-stoney-ridge-thread.2463487/page-31#post-39058654

Gaming golden rule is no below 30fps, or 30fps+ more then enough and especially if we talk about iGPU gaming for only 70$.

If you see what A8-9600 can do, 40$ more for 10fps more is totally illogical move or "Mr Spock wants to talk to you".

 

[AtenRa]

I used to be in the "USFF gaming" boat, and had big plans to build a Kaveri based gaming PC to go under my TV. But in the end the gaming performance of Kaveri disappointed me and just wasn't sufficient, so I got myself an Alienware X51 R2. And you know what? It works great!



It's the size of a (large) games console, and sits in my shelving unit under the TV just like a console would. It has a fairly midrange GPU even by the standards of the day (R9 270), but it still beats the snot out of any APU to date (and I'm pretty confident it will still be significantly faster than Raven Ridge). And when it finally gets too slow for me, guess what? I can just replace it. The Haswell CPU should still be good for years to come.

I could have gone without a dGPU and crammed it into an even smaller chassis, but that would mean giving up about 2/3rds of my gaming performance. I don't think that's a worthwhile trade.

And this has nothing to do with USFF Gaming systems, i like the Alienware X51 R2 but the USFF Gaming system with the A12-9800 could be close to 1/4 the size and half the price of X51 R2.

Edit: A couple of examples

hec ITX ITX200B Mini ITX Media Center / HTPC Case with 200W PSU

IN-WIN Mini Tower Case BQS656

 

[mohit9206]

And this has nothing to do with USFF Gaming systems, i like the Alienware X51 R2 but the USFF Gaming system with the A12-9800 could be close to 1/4 the size and half the price of X51 R2.

Edit: A couple of examples

hec ITX ITX200B Mini ITX Media Center / HTPC Case with 200W PSU

IN-WIN Mini Tower Case BQS656

I don't really understand the obsession with USFF PC. Mini towers are already small enough and can fit standard sized components including a decent sized graphics card so why intentionally cripple yourself with USFF.

 

[AtenRa]

I don't really understand the obsession with USFF PC. Mini towers are already small enough and can fit standard sized components including a decent sized graphics card so why intentionally cripple yourself with USFF.

I dont understand the obsession with Gaming Laptops when for less money you can get more performance with a desktop but still people buy them, same thing for USFF Gaming systems

 

[mohit9206]

I dont understand the obsession with Gaming Laptops when for less money you can get more performance with a desktop but still people buy them, same thing for USFF Gaming systems

I fail to understand this logic. You mean to say USFF can be carried from one place to another that is why A12-9800 is a good option for that? How many people do that though? 0.001%

 

[NTMBK]

I dont understand the obsession with Gaming Laptops when for less money you can get more performance with a desktop but still people buy them, same thing for USFF Gaming systems

Gaming laptops can fill an entirely different role, by being moved around and used outside of the home. What's the real difference between a SFF system that fits into a media center, and an USFF that also fits into a media center but leaves more space around it? They both fulfil the same role, but one of them lets you actually play modern games.

EDIT: If you really, really need the tiny form factor, then I would recommend something like the Alienware Alpha:

(Though I would wait for them to do a refresh with 14nm graphics chips.) The soldered down components and dedicated design let them actually fit decent gaming performance into that tiny space. The mini-ITX form factor just isn't terribly well designed for truly compact systems.

 

[kallisX]

i heard the x4-950 is actually the a12 or similar with the gpu disabled only, and therefore teeny tiny die with no real benefit in pure cpu performence between the two?

 

[mohit9206]

i heard the x4-950 is actually the a12 or similar with the gpu disabled only, and therefore teeny tiny die with no real benefit in pure cpu performence between the two?

Yes true. X4 950 is A12 without the gpu. Its not disabled, it doesn't have it at all. If X4 950 is available to buy, i would love to build a budget gaming PC around it.
X4 950 + 8gb ram + 1050Ti with A320 mobo. Four cores physical cores is what i would prefer instead of G4560 which is a dead platform and 2 physical cores.
Now its upto AMD whether they choose to sell the 950 is my country or not.

 

[SPBHM]

Yes true. X4 950 is A12 without the gpu. Its not disabled, it doesn't have it at all. If X4 950 is available to buy, i would love to build a budget gaming PC around it.
X4 950 + 8gb ram + 1050Ti with A320 mobo. Four cores physical cores is what i would prefer instead of G4560 which is a dead platform and 2 physical cores.
Now its upto AMD whether they choose to sell the 950 is my country or not.

4 (with shared resources) power hungry cores from a failed/dead architecture and no l3 cache, the result is that it's much slower than the G4560 with a discrete card https://youtu.be/yyw7coOhN78?t=5m19s
also with A320 you give up OC which would be one of the only advantages...
I think it's only attractive against Celeron (2c/2t) at this point...

 

[NTMBK]

Yes true. X4 950 is A12 without the gpu. Its not disabled, it doesn't have it at all.

Any evidence that this is actually the case? In all of AMD's previous APU-based "Athlons", they used the same die and disabled the GPU.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Yes true. X4 950 is A12 without the gpu. Its not disabled, it doesn't have it at all.

It is physically there, just fused off. AMD would be... well mad... to have a unique die for such an ultra low volume part.

If X4 950 is available to buy, i would love to build a budget gaming PC around it.
X4 950 + 8gb ram + 1050Ti with A320 mobo. Four cores physical cores is what i would prefer instead of G4560 which is a dead platform and 2 physical cores.
Now its upto AMD whether they choose to sell the 950 is my country or not.

Based on my Carrizo experiences I'd advise you to stay well clear of anything Carrizo/Bristol Ridge for gaming. Excavator simply isn't suited as a gaming CPU. Even previous gen Steamroller is faster, and the basic Ryzen 1200 has twice the performance at stock frequency.

 

[ao_ika_red]

i heard the x4-950 is actually the a12 or similar with the gpu disabled only, and therefore teeny tiny die with no real benefit in pure cpu performence between the two?

Athlon 950 is basically an Athlon 845 with DDR4. Ian already tested it and a bit downgrade compared to Kaveri in gaming scenario, but there's small ipc increase over Kaveri in other usage scenario.

 

[NTMBK]

Athlon 950 is basically an Athlon 845 with DDR4. Ian already tested it and a bit downgrade compared to Kaveri in gaming scenario, but there's small ipc increase over Kaveri in other usage scenario.

It's also in an AM4 socket, so you could at least upgrade to a decent CPU down the line. With the 845 you're stuck.

 

[mohit9206]

It is physically there, just fused off. AMD would be... well mad... to have a unique die for such an ultra low volume part.



Based on my Carrizo experiences I'd advise you to stay well clear of anything Carrizo/Bristol Ridge for gaming. Excavator simply isn't suited as a gaming CPU. Even previous gen Steamroller is faster, and the basic Ryzen 1200 has twice the performance at stock frequency.

Is the gpu fused off because its faulty or is it perfectly fine? Because just fusing off perfectly fine gpu will lose amd lot of money right?
Also you are saying X4 950 doesn't use the newest version which is steamroller but instead uses excavator which is slower?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Mohit, you seem to be slightly mis-informed. The silicon die for the X4 950 is the exact same as the 12-9800. Both physically contain the GPU die components. Whether the disabled iGPU in the X4 950 is viable or not, is up to AMD to know.

Also, the "newest" Bulldozer core variant is indeed excavator, it is newer than steamroller, though not always performing as well. (It is more power-efficient.)

 

[mohit9206]

Mohit, you seem to be slightly mis-informed. The silicon die for the X4 950 is the exact same as the 12-9800. Both physically contain the GPU die components. Whether the disabled iGPU in the X4 950 is viable or not, is up to AMD to know.

Also, the "newest" Bulldozer core variant is indeed excavator, it is newer than steamroller, though not always performing as well. (It is more power-efficient.)

Yes thanks but for $60 i still feel X4 950 is worth it. One could always upgrade it in the future to ryzen.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I wasn't suggesting that it wasn't worth it, although TechSpot gave the 12-9800 a really scathing review, and it was behind the G4560 in pretty-much all things, except for iGPU gaming.

$60 for a big-core quad-core CPU, isn't bad at all, and it can be overclocked to 4.0Ghz+ in a B350 mobo, that can also be used for a Ryzen CPU, or a Raven Ridge APU in the future. So it seems like a relative win / win all around.

 

[NTMBK]

Is the gpu fused off because its faulty or is it perfectly fine? Because just fusing off perfectly fine gpu will lose amd lot of money right?
Also you are saying X4 950 doesn't use the newest version which is steamroller but instead uses excavator which is slower?

Manufacturing a new die variant costs millions and millions of dollars. Justifying a new die needs a large potential market (which the Athlon 950 doesn't have).

The GPU may be fused off due to faults, or it may be fully functional and just fused off so that AMD can sell another different SKU.

They won't make as much money off a 950 sale as they would from a 9800 sale, but it lets them address the market who want a bargain-basement CPU to use with a discrete GPU, and don't care about the IGP at all. For that use case the 9800 just can't compete with Intel's Pentiums, it's just too expensive for the CPU performance it offers. But because AMD sell a cheaper model with no IGP, they still have a chance of making that sale (instead of losing that customer to Intel).

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Yes thanks but for $60 i still feel X4 950 is worth it. One could always upgrade it in the future to ryzen.

If you're thinking of upgrading to Ryzen later, just take the plunge already and go with a 1200. The performance difference is massive, it -is- twice as expensive but you also get over twice the performance. Even more with a good OC if you're willing to do that.

Only reason I even got an 845 was price, and "sidegradeability" (had a 6800K before). It was a very good deal. You can't directly compare pricing between here and the US, but think AM1-class cheap. And whatever else it is, the 845/950 has twice the performance of 4 Jaguar cores.

 

[kallisX]

funny how X4/A12 maxed out 43fps in Hitman and 40fps in Ashes of the Singularity, on a 1080ti?
so your not getting even fair gaming performence regardless of how much you spend on surrounding components.
i thought x4 860k was better than that but my memory may be playing tricks...