AMD Carrizo Pre-release thread

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AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136
The power efficiency curve chart in the slides converges just past the 20W per module mark. If we go by existing Kaveri SKUs that means roughly 3-3.5GHz.

A10-7300 shrinking to 12W seems alright but I still think OEMs will say "Not bad, shame we can't put an Intel Inside sticker on any units we put this in. Don't call us, we'll call you."

A10-7300 is 19W TDP for the APU alone, Kaveri 15W TDP will include both the APU + PCH (Carrizo is an SoC).

So, if Carrizo will have the same perf of 35W Kaveri at 15W TDP with an added bonus the same socket with Carrizo-L(lower platform cost from SoC design and single socket for both APU Designs), then it will be "wanted dead or alive" from the majority of big OEMs.
 

Vesku

Diamond Member
Aug 25, 2005
3,743
28
86
A10-7300 is 19W TDP for the APU alone, Kaveri 15W TDP will include both the APU + PCH (Carrizo is an SoC).

So, if Carrizo will have the same perf of 35W Kaveri at 15W TDP with an added bonus the same socket with Carrizo-L(lower platform cost from SoC design and single socket for both APU Designs), then it will be "wanted dead or alive" from the majority of big OEMs.

We'll know when AMD releases Q1'15 Financials, if Carrizo is coming out in the next 4-6 months there should be purchases by then and a corresponding jump in revenue. Given how Bay Trail has pushed out AMD's Cat core based offerings in the budget space, where supposedly there is no Intel contra revenue (rebates & cash) help, I'm not so sure. AMD's brand value is quite poor compared to Intel's and that's a factor in what goes in a product.
 
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AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136
We'll know when AMD releases Q1'15 Financials, if Carrizo is coming out in the next 4-6 months there should be purchases by then and a corresponding jump in revenue.

We may not see a revenue increase in Q1 2015 even if Carrizo is going to sell well because of the rest of the AMD products.

Given how Bay Trail has pushed out AMD's Cat core based offerings in the budget space, where supposedly there is no Intel contra revenue (rebates & cash) help, I'm not so sure. AMD's brand value is quite poor compared to Intel's and that's a factor in what goes in a product.

Im not saying Carrizo will out sell Intel or it will be the second coming for AMD, but it will be highly competitive both in perf/watt and for the first time in the last couple of years in price.
The APU alone may not be that much more competitive in price against Intel but the compination of the SoC (no PCH = lower cost, simpler platform design = lower cost, same socket for both APUs = lower cost etc etc) will make the Carrizo much more price competitive than Kaveri and Beema was last year.

Add that Broadwell has Yield problems affecting its cost and you may have a winner here
All AMD have to do is to have adequate volume and good positive reviews from the press.
I strongly believe that Carrizo may be the best product of 2015 in the x86 arena at least in the first half.
 

mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
3,974
0
76
If AMD can get a big boost in IPC, manufacture Zen on 14nm node, they will be a lot closer towards their goal of consumers choosing lower end and mid-range AMD APUs.

What are the chances of Zen being performance/efficiency competitive against Intel Core chips but at the same time being low cost, IP-friendly enough to be a competitive player on the embedded market? I think you and the AMD fans in general are expecting too much from a chip intended for the embedded market and don't see the size of the burden those contradictory constraints would put on the design teams, especially underfunded, overstretched design teams like those at AMD.

Right now I think embedded trumps consumer requirements big time. The embedded market for AMD is approaching the point where not only it generates more profits, it also generates more gross profits for AMD than the CPU consumer market. It would be foolish to burn money they could use to expand their embedded footprint to try to get back to the consumer market, this in a moment where Intel is doubling down on their R&D bets.

lol, at least wait for the benchmarks before we start predicting its demise. (Or success for that matter.)

I'm not saying that Zen will be a bad product, that's not something we can say with the available info. What I'm saying is that all AMD management has been telling us is that Zen will not be the product you expect it to be, which means it is not a high end performer on the CPU consumer market. It could even be a financial success, but it will not be a success on the consumer market.
 
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monstercameron

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2013
3,818
1
0
What are the chances of Zen being performance/efficiency competitive against Intel Core chips but at the same time being low cost, IP-friendly enough to be a competitive player on the embedded market? I think you and the AMD fans in general are expecting too much from a chip intended for the embedded market and don't see the size of the burden those contradictory constraints would put on the design teams, especially underfunded, overstretched design teams like those at AMD.



I'm not saying that Zen will be a bad product, that's not something we can say with the available info. What I'm saying is that all AMD management has been telling us is that Zen will not be the product you expect it to be, which means it is not a high end performer on the CPU consumer market. It could even be a financial success, but it will not be a success on the consumer market.


Will not? Sir only sith deal in absolutes.
 

inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
3,765
4,223
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benchmark.pl posted a leaked 3dmark11 score for prototype carrizo notebook running an "FX-8800P" CPU (successor to FX-7600 Kaveri for mobile).
http://www.benchmark.pl/aktualnosci...wydajnosc-3dmark-11-procesor-apu-carrizo.html

GPU score is around 28% better than FX-7600's. More interestingly CPU score in physics subtest is 13% higher even though the clocks are (on paper) lower in case of Carrizo. I wonder if Kaveri is even running at 2.7Ghz in the physics benchmark.
 

mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
3,974
0
76
We'll know when AMD releases Q1'15 Financials, if Carrizo is coming out in the next 4-6 months there should be purchases by then and a corresponding jump in revenue. Given how Bay Trail has pushed out AMD's Cat core based offerings in the budget space, where supposedly there is no Intel contra revenue (rebates & cash) help, I'm not so sure. AMD's brand value is quite poor compared to Intel's and that's a factor in what goes in a product.

AMD is expecting >15% drop in consumer revenue in Q115.
 

mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
3,974
0
76
Lol trying to pull a shintai? Anyway doesnt really matter as you are a master at spin and will spin your way out of every debate. So I'll just wait.

Why do you think I would want to pull a Shintai? Did Steamroller change positively the competitive landscape on the PC market or did it make AMD's hole even deeper on this market? Did the cat cores improved or worsened their competitive position when Bay Trail was launched? And what about GCN, what happened when Maxwell was launched? What happened to the magical HSA and the sheer number of partners in the foundation, where's the HSA hardware being deployed beyond AMD's camp? Where's the HSA software tools? Did Mantle change the competitive landscape on the GPU market? The only thing you can say I mispredicted is that I didn't expect Steamroller and Excavator to be launched at all, but it seems that the WSA trumps everything else.

AMD is a company in disarray, what we are starting to see now is the results of what Rory Read started when he assumed the company 3 years ago, and guess what, not only AMD stand on the market worsened significantly they also decided that the CEO wasn't doing a good enough job and fired him. And this is the company you expect to launch a killer, high performance CPU product in 2016.
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,595
136
I think the funds just weren't provided to get to where they needed to be. AFAIK Carrizo will be the first AMD APU that fully implements their HSA ("Fusion") vision. Took them about 8 years to get there.

And now how long time for hsa software ? !
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
819
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The slide says 5% IPC gain at 40% less power, not up to.
I have no idea at what frequency Carrizo starts to have worst efficiency than Kaveri, but i believe that will be above 3.5-4GHz.


Actually the slide says the core uses 40% less power, not the CPU.
 

RandSec

Junior Member
Mar 19, 2013
5
0
0
ciphersbyritter.com
We'll know when AMD releases Q1'15 Financials, if Carrizo is coming out in the next 4-6 months there should be purchases by then and a corresponding jump in revenue.

Since wafer fab takes about 3mo., AMD probably does take orders 3mo. in advance. But in most cases, parts are billed when tested and shipped, not imagined. So if AMD does start volume shipments Q2, we may see a bump in Q2 financials, but that would be just the start of the ramp-up. The real deal should be Q3, as is traditional for component suppliers to Christmas gifts. So we should see the results early in Q4.
 

bullzz

Senior member
Jul 12, 2013
405
23
81
am I reading this wrong or are the scores posted by inf64 is lower than broadwell U
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,172
3,869
136
This slide is about IPC +5% gain at 40% less power. I never mentioned anything about the CPU with this slide.


There s almost enough datas to compute the resulting CPU perf/Watt improvement, the only missing number in thoses slides is the uncore power comsumption ratio, wich should be about 20% (25% for a A10 7850K at 3.7), so it doesnt make a big difference at the end.

A 15W Carrizo will perform like a 25W Kaveri while this latter s 19W and 35W iterations will be matched by 12 and 23-25W parts respectively.
 

inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
3,765
4,223
136
am I reading this wrong or are the scores posted by inf64 is lower than broadwell U
I'm not saying the scores are even legit. They were posted on that website and that is all we know about them. The score could very well be fake for all I know.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,172
3,869
136

RandSec

Junior Member
Mar 19, 2013
5
0
0
ciphersbyritter.com
And what about GCN, what happened when Maxwell was launched? What happened to the magical HSA and the sheer number of partners in the foundation, where's the HSA hardware being deployed beyond AMD's camp? Where's the HSA software tools? Did Mantle change the competitive landscape on the GPU market?

While this may not be the best place for a defense of the company, such comments deserve a response:

The Maxwell launch was yet another leapfrog in a long list of leapfrogs. Is the older tech less competitive when newer tech comes out? Sure, less competitive, although beyond power usage, the difference is not as stark as nVidia marketing makes it. But the real story is the coming generational response, which is not really about GCN per se.

One of the innovations we expect from Carrizo is an HSA-enabled GCN GPU, which includes an ability to interrupt current tasks for a quick compute, then resume. That, along with hardware micro-task management, queueing and dispatch, enables a whole new style of high-performance coding.

HSA has various aspects which seem important, depending on individual orientation:

First there is the complex software system which compiles down to HSA intermediate language (HSA-IL), which then locally compiles on the target machine. This supports "write once, run anywhere" coding, also shipping code as HSAIL without developers having to consider the many different forms of PC hardware.

Then there is the on chip hardware interface for supporting interchangeable compute module layouts, e.g., CPU's and GPU's. This result of building the SkyBridge chips should be particularly important for the Semicustom business by using those modules.

Perhaps the most important HSA concept is "tight CPU/GPU compute," where relatively small sections of ideally parallel code can be handed from CPU to the SIMD GPU, and the GPU can hand off complex branching code to the CPU. That power is there to use or not, just like any other new instruction. One might expect forms of this programming style to appear first in the consoles, since they are under-powered and can use the help. But it also may be used in Embedded designs, which have their own custom code.

Mantle did of course change the competitive environment by pushing Microsoft to get out their DX12, which just happens to improve both CPU and GPU results in AMD machines more than others. This will be another performance increment for starter to mid-level Carrizo laptops.

But why leave out FreeSync, which further improves laptop gaming, and is currently only available on current AMD APU's like Carrizo, and on AMD mobile GPU's. While there is an nVidia software solution, one would not expect that to have the performance advantages of the AMD hardware interface.

A real company is not a TV show and does not succeed or fail in an hour, a day, or even a year. Semiconductor chip projects typically take 2 to 3 years, top to bottom, and then it is at least 2 quarters more before we see the business results. The SkyBridge advantage both for Standard Product and Semicustom aims to greatly reduce new chip development effort and time-to-market, an innovation which should be significant industry-wide.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,813
11,168
136
Gar reply got deleted. I'll replace it with tl;dr version:

1). AtenRa, the curves seem to indicate Carrizo will cross Kaveri's power/clockspeed curve at ~24-25W per module. How FCH power draw affects this or chip TDP ratings is anyone's guess, but I'd expect 65W Carrizo to sit at a base clock of around 3.2 ghz. Turbo unknown.

2). inf64, that benchmark.pl leak is interesting. My own 7700k only manages a total score of P2877 fully overclocked (4.7 ghz, 2.1 ghz NB, 1028 mhz iGPU). My physics (4541) and combined (2611) scores are much higher, but then I'm running my modules at more than twice the clockspeed of that chip's max turbo. It's almost three times the speed of that Carrizo's base clock (I'm just 400 mhz shy).

So that total score looks pretty good for the Carrizo.

3). Zstream, FP4 BGA Carrizo (laptop, maybe desktop AiO/UCFF) is slated for release this year. Should be in a few months.
 
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