AMD Carrizo Pre-release thread

[mikk]

We have the numbers from SA Thevenin , that s much more accurate than what is provided by Notebookcheck.

Did you verify Thevenins tests or how can you say it is much more accurate? Once again, a power test comparison from different people with different testing methods is bollocks.

Iris Pro is 10% faster on 3DMark but at a 47W TDP, CPU doesnt matter much since it doesnt need to work at full frequency to load the GPU, for the record it s 3GHz on a Kaveri 7850K.

You don't understand the point. 3dmark doesn't use much CPU in iGPU tests and therefore GPU Turbo stays high usually. Real world gaming is a completely different matter and nobody in the wild tested it on a production notebook yet.

At low TDP Carrizo will do better as Intel s GPU has quite poor perf/Watt and they dont have better CPU perf/Watt.

You haven't seen Gen9 yet and Carrizo either (apart from marketing slides).

Besides, in power limited environment Carrizo CPU will have more throughput than a Core M with the same power dedicated to the CPU part, you seems to forget this detail by assuming that Intel has better per/watt for the CPU, wich is no more the case...

Remember you lied about Carrizo vs Core M some time ago when you used 35W performance leaks from Carrizo only to say these were from 15W Carrizo. You would do much better if you stay silent with such assumptions.

 

[AtenRa]

Even talking about an Intel heavily optimized Cinebench 11.5 and how close (if not faster) a 28nm Planar AMD Carrizo is against a Intel 14nm FinFet Broadwell at the same 15W TDP should be a real embarrassment for the blue team.

 

[Abwx]

Did you verify Thevenins tests or how can you say it is much more accurate? Once again, a power test comparison from different people with different testing methods is bollocks.

He gave a lot of infos, and if you dont agree you can always register at SA and challenge him....

So far he answered kindly to all question he could answer to, i d like to see someone who test Intel plateforms giving us so precise numbers, we wouldnt be crawling through tons of reviews with variable numbers.

Another of his hints :

This is how the A12-8800B scales with the TDP in Geekbench (3.32 x64).

15W PPT = 20W
35W PPT = 42W

That´s the default configuration on Carrizo.

https://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=240548&postcount=906

Remember you lied about Carrizo vs Core M some time ago when you used 35W performance leaks from Carrizo only to say these were from 15W Carrizo. You would do much better if you stay silent with such assumptions.

It s you that is lying, read what i did write :

Half the score in 3DMark...

If the process was that efficient it would extend to the GPU effiency and we wouldnt see such a large gap..

So we have "ultra efficient" transistors lose all their qualities once they are used for a GPU....

So it s clear, i said that if Intel process was so good then their GPU should have good perf/Watt as well.

You dont even know at wich power they tested the Intel chip, yet you say that it s 15W, how do you know..??...

You consider your random statement as a truth..?


Get used to it, despite being 1.5 node late AMD managed to outperform Intel in the low power segment, i devoted a lot of time to explain how they proceeded and why Intel was caught offguard because of their process not delivering accordingly, and i even gave absolute numbers that match measurements.

If you want to challenge me on this matter use such professional methods rather than straws, half truth and even deffemation in the case of Thevenin s numbers.

 

[mrmt]

Remember you lied about Carrizo vs Core M some time ago when you used 35W performance leaks from Carrizo only to say these were from 15W Carrizo. You would do much better if you stay silent with such assumptions.

Carrizo will be the final nail in the coffin of AMD's notebook business. Carrizo is not enough to take AMD until 2017.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Even talking about an Intel heavily optimized Cinebench 11.5 and how close (if not faster) a 28nm Planar AMD Carrizo is against a Intel 14nm FinFet Broadwell at the same 15W TDP should be a real embarrassment for the blue team.

Where are you getting Cinebench results from any available retail Carrizo notebook? Seems to still be MIA doesnt it?

 

[podspi]

Carrizo will be the final nail in the coffin of AMD's notebook business. Carrizo is not enough to take AMD until 2017.

I don't know if I believe that. Unless it turns out there actually aren't any design wins that make it to market, and so we never get a real review - I'd prefer to wait for the reviews.

I mean, we live in a world where Rockchip is in laptops - I think there is room for Carrizo. Just maybe (probably) not as much room as AMD would like...

 

[mrmt]

I don't know if I believe that. Unless it turns out there actually aren't any design wins that make it to market, and so we never get a real review - I'd prefer to wait for the reviews.

AMD took a page of Nvidia Tegra marketing book:

- Announce design "wins".

- Design wins don't make a splash, blame outside factors (foundry in Nvidia's case, W10 in AMD's case)

- Move on to the next subject and pray for analyst don't bring the subject in the next Q&A

I don't know if you realized what has happened with Carrizo, but whatever promises AMD made about stabilizing or even clawing back some share with Carrizo were broken, OEMs were supposed to be building up a lot of Carrizo stock because by the time W10 launched Carrizo was supposed to be in the stores. With the latest sales figures OEMs are saying that Carrizo won't be relevant in back to school and that they aren't expecting too much from holiday sales. And if Carrizo isn't being relevant on the year of its lauch, how is it going to stay relevant until 2017?

 

[frozentundra123456]

Yea, I dont buy the "Waiting for Win 10" for Carizzo or even Skylake for that matter. With the way sales are in the toilet, I would think either manufacturer would want to get new, better products to market as soon as possible. I think it is more that they are rushing to get products (at least a few) to market, or at least paper launched before Win 10. This goes double for AMD, because if Carizzo was really ready (and a compelling product), I would think they would want to bring it out as soon as possible to try to get some sales before Skylake.

Carizzo definitely seems to be very low in availability, and I am even somewhat skeptical of how much availability we will see from Skylake. There are certainly plenty of motherboards though!!!

 

[jpiniero]

Considering how awful Windows 8 is, and that Windows 7 is now unavailable, I could absolutely see OEMs wanting to wait until Windows 10 to see if it ends up being any better or more popular than 8. Broadwell-C and H are basically unavailable too.

The funny thing about Carrizo is making a competitive chip is the easy part. Consumers aren't buying and Corporate users don't buy AMD anyway. Carrizo isn't going to change that.

 

[dark zero]

Carrizo entered too late. Not joking no one wants AMD anymore and here in Peru even no one wants any Intel M or H tier chips too! They go to ARM tablets or something with Whatssapp

 

[mrmt]

Yea, I dont buy the "Waiting for Win 10" for Carizzo or even Skylake for that matter. With the way sales are in the toilet, I would think either manufacturer would want to get new, better products to market as soon as possible.

Carrizo was formally launched by AMD in june, so OEMs were supposed to be acquiring it since at least march. The fact that we ended up Q2 with another precipitous drop means that the product was a flop, end of history.

Skylake should be shipping to OEMs since june, so there is a possibility of some deferred orders in order to get the shift from Haswell/Broadwell to Skylake, so we don't know what kind of impact it will have on the market yet.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Considering how awful Windows 8 is, and that Windows 7 is now unavailable, I could absolutely see OEMs wanting to wait until Windows 10 to see if it ends up being any better or more popular than 8. Broadwell-C and H are basically unavailable too.

The funny thing about Carrizo is making a competitive chip is the easy part. Consumers aren't buying and Corporate users don't buy AMD anyway. Carrizo isn't going to change that.

I suppose, but my point is that you dont *lose* sales by bringing out a chip early. For instance if Skylake were available now, some might upgrade a bit earlier, but someone waiting for Win 10 is still going to upgrade anyway when it becomes available. They arent going to say, "I dont want win 10 because there is no brand new cpu available".

And I still say if Carizzo is a good as AMD claims, they would be crazy to intentionally delay availability. Bring it to market ASAP to get a much market share as possible. I think for some reason there just isnt sufficient supply available. And yes, I am disappointed with Broadwell availabilty as well, especially the H models. Broadwell C I never really viewed as much more than a tech demo anyway.

 

[dark zero]

Carrizo was formally launched by AMD in june, so OEMs were supposed to be acquiring it since at least march. The fact that we ended up Q2 with another precipitous drop means that the product was a flop, end of history.

Skylake should be shipping to OEMs since june, so there is a possibility of some deferred orders in order to get the shift from Haswell/Broadwell to Skylake, so we don't know what kind of impact it will have on the market yet.

Skylake could be a success... Unless OEM are so retarded now that will use Braswell to sell most products and leave Skylake with the few products at crazy prices...

 

[mikk]

AMD took a page of Nvidia Tegra marketing book:

- Announce design "wins".

- Design wins don't make a splash, blame outside factors (foundry in Nvidia's case, W10 in AMD's case)

Exactly this. AMD announces many design wins but in the end there wasn't much. Example from the past.

“We believe Llano is seeing a strong traction with almost 135 new design wins, which is tracking ahead of AMD's expectations.”

http://www.benzinga.com/analyst-rat...15-pt-on-advanced-micro-devices#ixzz3gGBvOmDz

Carrizo was formally launched by AMD in june, so OEMs were supposed to be acquiring it since at least march. The fact that we ended up Q2 with another precipitous drop means that the product was a flop, end of history.

Not necessarily if we look back. Llano launched in June and shipment started early April according to AMD. Intel starts shipment 3-4 months before launch usually.

 

[jpiniero]

And I still say if Carizzo is a good as AMD claims, they would be crazy to intentionally delay availability.

AMD may be willing but the OEMs are not.

 

[dark zero]

Actually the current OEMs are so retarded that even they are ditchig their own lower Intel U Tier for radioactive trash called Celeron N and Atom...
They want to kill the whole laptop industry?

 

[maarten12100]

So according to some guys here Carrizo flopped already because OEMs don't use it. I mean since when has OEMs opinion been relevant to what is a good product and what isn't. They are the ones building the world's worst notebooks still using HDDs even in 1k+ notebooks. A joke they are.

Unless a decent Carrizo notebook is available one can't judge how viable it really is. The numbers that Thevenin gave however are very promising. We have Tom'sHw saying that they feel like it will be a game changer not just for AMD but for the mobile market.

Basically in a free market with a level playing field Tom would turn out to be right. Yet the HP Envy with Carrizo FX-8800p can't be configured with anything other than a 13*7 screen while the Intel based Envy can be configured with 1080P and even QHD screen. Aditionally they make it so that you can never get a dual channel memory config out of the box so that the gpu power is effectively extra starved since bandwidth is cut significantly.

OEMs are a joke :thumbsdown:

 

[dark zero]

So according to some guys here Carrizo flopped already because OEMs don't use it. I mean since when has OEMs opinion been relevant to what is a good product and what isn't. They are the ones building the world's worst notebooks still using HDDs even in 1k+ notebooks. A joke they are.

Unless a decent Carrizo notebook is available one can't judge how viable it really is. The numbers that Thevenin gave however are very promising. We have Tom'sHw saying that they feel like it will be a game changer not just for AMD but for the mobile market.

Basically in a free market with a level playing field Tom would turn out to be right. Yet the HP Envy with Carrizo FX-8800p can't be configured with anything other than a 13*7 screen while the Intel based Envy can be configured with 1080P and even QHD screen. Aditionally they make it so that you can never get a dual channel memory config out of the box so that the gpu power is effectively extra starved since bandwidth is cut significantly.

OEMs are a joke :thumbsdown:

We need new companies... at last some national companies could try to do that.
Living with the big ones are becomming into a pain in some honor parts

 

[geoxile]

We need new companies... at last some national companies could try to do that.
Living with the big ones are becomming into a pain in some honor parts

AMD needs to do it.

A lot of the actual laptop design is outsourced to Chinese companies anyway.

 

[Arachnotronic]

So according to some guys here Carrizo flopped already because OEMs don't use it. I mean since when has OEMs opinion been relevant to what is a good product and what isn't.

For components that are meant to be sold to OEMs, OEM "opinions" are literally the only thing that matter.

 

[jj109]

Even talking about an Intel heavily optimized Cinebench 11.5 and how close (if not faster) a 28nm Planar AMD Carrizo is against a Intel 14nm FinFet Broadwell at the same 15W TDP should be a real embarrassment for the blue team.

>Talk about something

>Haha it's an embarrassment to talk about it.

 

[maarten12100]

For components that are meant to be sold to OEMs, OEM "opinions" are literally the only thing that matter.

Yup still their opinion is almost never a good choice.

 

[dark zero]

Yup still their opinion is almost never a good choice.

That is sadly true... *seeing tons of Craptom at insane Prices...*

 

[Dresdenboy]

Did you verify Thevenins tests or how can you say it is much more accurate? Once again, a power test comparison from different people with different testing methods is bollocks.

And any engineer and scientist knows, that a sample sizes of 1 or 2 are bollocks as well. If you have single chips tested by different sites or users, you only get a small view of the overall distribution. Due to the way those processors are being made, there's simply some significant variance resulting in two different CPUs never behaving the same. Add to that the variance in system behaviour.

Remember you lied about Carrizo vs Core M some time ago when you used 35W performance leaks from Carrizo only to say these were from 15W Carrizo. You would do much better if you stay silent with such assumptions.

Were that truly proven 35W settings for Carrizo?

If you're referring to the early ES Geekbench leaks, then any poster had the same problem: find the relevant information. See my blog for the latest article on those results. With more samples now there one could identify 2 clusters of FX-8800P GB results (15W and 35W), and some other cluster (e.g. Android tests). Putting the old values into that context shows, that they were some of the worst scores ever seen, barely reaching the lower of the current clusters (likely 15W settings).

 

[frozentundra123456]

So according to some guys here Carrizo flopped already because OEMs don't use it. I mean since when has OEMs opinion been relevant to what is a good product and what isn't. They are the ones building the world's worst notebooks still using HDDs even in 1k+ notebooks. A joke they are.

Unless a decent Carrizo notebook is available one can't judge how viable it really is. The numbers that Thevenin gave however are very promising. We have Tom'sHw saying that they feel like it will be a game changer not just for AMD but for the mobile market.

Basically in a free market with a level playing field Tom would turn out to be right. Yet the HP Envy with Carrizo FX-8800p can't be configured with anything other than a 13*7 screen while the Intel based Envy can be configured with 1080P and even QHD screen. Aditionally they make it so that you can never get a dual channel memory config out of the box so that the gpu power is effectively extra starved since bandwidth is cut significantly.

OEMs are a joke :thumbsdown:

What is the point of a chip? Sales
Who makes products to sell? Wow I believe it is the OEMs.
So by definition, fairly or not, the OEMs basically control AMD's success. Call them a joke if you want, but it would behoove AMD to co-operate with them, or design their own product.

But really we have no, zero, benchmarks on retail products from independent sources, so nobody really knows how good the chip is. And if you want to call something a joke, that Tom's article would be at the top of the list. It contained no independent test results at all, just basically a regurgitation of AMD's PR.