AMD Carrizo Pre-release thread

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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,000
11,560
136
Carrizo isnt better than Core M, not even better than U. Thats simply something you make up. Just like you like to compare top bin 35W Carrizo performance with the lowest bin 15W U, and then claim Carrizo is better at 15W.

You know exactly those metrics. AMDs sales numbers says it all.

The important thing here is how much AMD has closed the gap with Intel processors. We can clearly see that Carrizo is considerably better in the 15-35W TDP range than mobile Kaveri. Mobile Kaveri was not a product that OEMs could use in the same places as Haswell variants in a notebook-friendly TDP range, much less Broadwell. We can argue all day long about Carrizo beating Broadwell (or Skylake), but that is somewhat besides the point. Carrizo is a competent and usable option.

Even AMD dont believe in growth from Carrizo.

AMD doesn't believe in growth from the PC/notebook sector, which is a pragmatic outlook. The rational fear is that OEMs will adopt monoculture as a way to cut back on production and maintain relations with a major supplier (Intel). If they have AMD products in 5% of their product offerings and they need to cut production by some non-zero percentage to account for flagging demand, why distribute the cuts evenly across the entire product range? Why not just cut everything from the AMD portfolio? In the case of many (though not all) notebook offerings featuring AMD chips, there are Intel alternatives with virtually the same accoutrements at similar price points. It would be simple enough for the OEMs to wipe out the AMD variants and just sell the Intel lappies instead.

Which is a shame, because AMD did essentially what their critics wanted them to do to produce a competent mobile product. They improved the platform, they reduced BoM, they improved CPU performance, they improved graphics performance, AND they reduced power consumption. They did all of it. The performance delta between mobile Kaveri and Carrizo can be quite large within the target wattage range, making Carrizo an awesome product in the 25-35W envelope (not so sure about 15-25W, haven't seen many products in that range yet). The extent to which AMD improved their product in that wattage range appears to be greater than what we got from Intel moving from Haswell to Broadwell. Jury's still out on what we'll get from Skylake.

That doesn't mean that "Carrizo is better than Broadwell". What it means is that AMD gets the "most improved" award for x86 CPUs in the mobile sector. They have demonstrated that they can achieve these improvements despite Intel's process lead. Good for AMD!

Are the OEMs rewarding them for these improvements? Right now, it looks like they are not, possibly for the reasons I listed above. OEMs are having problems making sales of anything right now, so trim they must, and trim they will. AMD appears to be getting two middle fingers, a kick in the crotch, a poke in the eye, and a slap in the face (for good measure). Maybe we'll all look foolish for being so humdrum after Carrizo laptops start selling "for real" in August, at least in Europe/Asia where they will likely have greater availability. Or maybe not. I don't think Su really knows what's going to happen since much of Carrizo's success now lies in Microsoft's ability to sell Win10 and in OEMs' ability to sell a limited selection of Carrizo-based laptops, not all of which amount to the most-desirable offerings from said OEMs.

If Carrizo fails, it will hardly be AMD's fault. There really is no marketing they could do now to make the product more desirable than it is. They did everything to improve their flagship mobile product that could possibly meet rational demands. I'm not saying that OEMs should adopt mass-saturation of Carrizo in their products - Intel still sells a compelling majority offering. I'm saying that if AMD has x% of the notebook share now, they ought to go to y% of the total share (even in a declining market) where y > x, just on account of improving their product in the way that is wanted by OEMs. Not because of morals or ethics, but because, in general, that's how a free market is going to work. It's not just that "it's better", it's "we listened to what people didn't like about our old product and addressed that". Now if they really deep-down wanted AMD to make something that's "faster than Intel" then I'm sorry, but that is not going to happen overnight.
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,655
140
106
I am still feeling that Carrizo-L is the one who will save AMD again (Beema saves them first... their A8 manages to fight against the i3 Broadwell U)
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,517
4,303
136
When I get off work I'll post a video, just cinebench r11.5?

Eventualy also CB R15 and a ST test to check actual cores usage if you have some time left, but anyway thank you for the effort.

If the laptop is not too hot the CPU will likely boost while there s thermal headroom before throttling back to what is programed by the OEM and this should show in the Killawatt.

Also in ST i saw that CB, i cant say wich one, can use 3 cores with Kaveri instead of one by distrubuting the load accordingly with 40/40/20% cores usage, that s not genuinely ST, and this cut the actual ST perf by 6% due to a module penalty and cores scaling.

(not so sure about 15-25W, haven't seen many products in that range yet). .

Actualy it s in this range that it is the most competitive, that s clearly visible in AMD s graph , besides the chip TDP is programable.

0.67 on the y axis is 2.35GHz, that s the frequency at wich the SoC drain 15W in CB 11.5, cores in isolation use 8W out of this total.




http://techreport.com/review/27853/amd-previews-carrizo-apu-offers-insights-into-power-savings/2
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,000
11,560
136
I am still feeling that Carrizo-L is the one who will save AMD again (Beema saves them first... their A8 manages to fight against the i3 Broadwell U)

How did Beema (Mullins, really) save AMD? AMD had a devil of a time actually getting Beema into products. And in case you hadn't noticed, Carrizo-L is Mullins with different clockspeeds.

Actualy it s in this range that it is the most competitive, that s clearly visible in AMD s graph , besides the chip TDP is programable.

I know the slides, we just haven't seen the benchmarks yet to prove out what AMD was showing us with those slide decks months ago. I'm sure it'll be far-and-away better than Kaveri in that range.
 

mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
3,974
0
76
I am still feeling that Carrizo-L is the one who will save AMD again (Beema saves them first... their A8 manages to fight against the i3 Broadwell U)

You are wrong here. Cat family sales are cratering even faster than CMT sales.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
15,108
5,665
136
You are wrong here. Cat family sales are cratering even faster than CMT sales.

In fairness, Cat sales died because of the contra-revenue. No reason to think things will change on that front unless Intel scales back the subsidy.
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,715
2,012
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In fairness, Cat sales died because of the contra-revenue. No reason to think things will change on that front unless Intel scales back the subsidy.

No, they didn't. Bay Trail-M/D did not require contra-revenue and these were the parts that destroyed the Cat cores.
 

mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
3,974
0
76
In fairness, Cat sales died because of the contra-revenue. No reason to think things will change on that front unless Intel scales back the subsidy.
Atom notebooks and netbooks aren't covered by contra-revenue.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,301
5,302
136
You are wrong here. Cat family sales are cratering even faster than CMT sales.

Yup, this. Dig into the report, and you will find that their mobile ASP is going up, in spite of plummeting revenue. What this means is that the Cat cores are cratering faster than the big-core sales.

It's probably because AMD failed to deliver the 20nm die shrink. They promised a shrunk, faster, more power efficient part, and GloFo screwed them over yet again. It's the exact same thing that happened with Wichita and Krishna, 4 years ago. AMD promised a shrunk Bobcat, and GloFo's 28nm process was a disaster that took years to fix. They had to abandon the whole project and jump to Kabini on TSMC 28nm.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,517
4,303
136
Yup, this. Dig into the report, and you will find that their mobile ASP is going up, in spite of plummeting revenue. What this means is that the Cat cores are cratering faster than the big-core sales.

It could also mean that their offering ASP did increase beause of Carrizo being delivered in quantities as low as 5% of the whole mobile sales, that s enough to reate such a delta.

It's probably because AMD failed to deliver the 20nm die shrink.

There s no point delivering such a product, Digitimes pointed that only 14 millions out of 45 millions free chips went in Android Items, all the rest, that is 30 millions, went in W8 items, that s almost 10% of the W8 market but still we have some apologists by there that are talking of competitivity and bla bla bla while ignoring voluntarly numbers, i can as well make such fairy tailed theories ...

Point is that Intel is dumping bns to keep AMD entering the mobility market but ironicaly they doubled down by cutting sales of their own profitables products, what was bought as BTrail didnt add up to the numbers but just replaced what would have been otherwise sold as i3...
 
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mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
3,974
0
76
YIt's probably because AMD failed to deliver the 20nm die shrink. They promised a shrunk, faster, more power efficient part, and GloFo screwed them over yet again. It's the exact same thing that happened with Wichita and Krishna, 4 years ago. AMD promised a shrunk Bobcat, and GloFo's 28nm process was a disaster that took years to fix. They had to abandon the whole project and jump to Kabini on TSMC 28nm.

And to add insult to the injury, AMD might end up paying hundreds of millions because of the WSA take-or-pay charges, despite GLF playing an active role in AMD not being able to fulfill its commitment. Perfect deal, no?
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,517
4,303
136
You can't expect him to keep all his excuses straight now, can you?

If you have a remark that involve me adress it to me and stop derailing/threadrapping the thread, as is usual with you once you jump in an AMD related thread.

Didnt you say they waited on Windows 10?

Of course, it will take a few days if not a week for deliveries anyway, and it s fortunate since W10 warranty is effective only after official launch of the OS, if you sell items too early you ll have to wait this date for updates if ever there s a late bug...

Anything else..?..
 
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svenge

Senior member
Jan 21, 2006
204
1
71
There s already a thread here for thoses who want to discuss financial matters, we dont need this rabidly sustained thread derailing from the same people ad nauseam...

If you have a remark that involve me adress it to me and stop derailing/threadrapping the thread, as is usual with you once you jump in an AMD related thread.

If you so desperately want threads controlled tightly to your specifications and never discuss things that don't paint AMD in a less-than-positive light, you might be better severed over at AMDZone...
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,517
4,303
136
If you so desperately want threads controlled tightly to your specifications and never discuss things that don't paint AMD in a less-than-positive light, you might be better severed over at AMDZone...



This is a Carrizo related thread and so far you didnt make a single post here that is on point, instead you are continuing some kind of anti AMD crusade using deffamation and lies since i ve never been at AMD zone neither has been a reader there, indeed your post history is mainly thread crapping once we check your post in AMD threads....

So please project your psychological troubles elsewhere and stop threadrapping what should be a technical thread, is it clear enough..??
 
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