AMD Carrizo Pre-release thread

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maarten12100

Member
Jan 11, 2013
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At idle there is almost only the screen left.

While, old. Example of the Ipad2 vs Ipad3. Resolution got a big impact as well.

We are talking about laptop screens here, right? Anyways this is cherry picking at it's finest my 15" notebook are more in the region of 2W at maximum brightness extra. The brightness on the Ipad can by the way go that high so that you can use it in direct ligth aka sun for example.

The tests could be made with an external monitor, best option to eliminate laptop monitor dependencies
But but... the datalink power usage that is a whopping 300mW. And with these cherry picked results we can "prove" it must be at least 5W power usage.
People should get real if AMD lies investors will try to sue even if AMD tells the truth they will try haha.
 
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Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,517
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What? You were wrong with a factor of 1000, and now you try educate me regarding the same subject?
I'm still correct, changing brightness affect power with several watts on a laptop. It is important to understand when interpreting test results.

3W max power for an average quality 13.3 at 200cd...

http://www.panelook.com/B133XW03%20V1_AUO_13.3_LCM_parameter_451.html

You can browse through the thousands references if you want so this useless debate wont derail the thread...

This doesnt change the fact that at idle Carrizo consume 0.7W less at the SoC level than BDW....
 
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Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,517
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There's no doubt about it, AMD has the most powerful Powerpoint slides the world has ever seen.

Are you sure..?..

What about when someone say 100% while it s 10-15% in real world..?




Lol......:biggrin:


Now we can get back discussing matters that are real, can you provide us Intel s equivalent of this curve for Broadwell..??.




What..?..It doesnt exist..?.

That must be because they hugely outperformed their own previsions and want to keep it as a strategical secret, i really see no other explanation, and i doubt that you have a better one...
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,301
5,305
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That must be because they hugely outperformed their own previsions and want to keep it as a strategical secret, i really see no other explanation, and i doubt that you have a better one...

Intel prefers to let their products do the talking, instead of their Powerpoints.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,517
4,303
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Intel prefers to let their products do the talking, instead of their Powerpoints.

And their products are contradicting them...

No need to go academic one more time, i already provided all the numbers, here and at SA, if one want to challenge me on these perf/Watt matter he has all the necessary infos to do so...

Of course i dont expect anyone knowledgeable to get his credibility ruined by denying what is accessible (and verifiable) to a first year university students who would have missed 80% of the courses...

Only skepticals people left are the ones who obviously dont understand the semiconductors physics, and are hence relying in slogans that they hold as being deep thoughts...
 
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maarten12100

Member
Jan 11, 2013
150
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Intel prefers to let their products do the talking, instead of their Powerpoints.
Check the post above yours their products talk for themselfs as in they totally don't meet the advertised numbers. Over 2x the performnace/Watt they say

Maybe if you look at the TDP or do a measurment but let it record data beyond the actually bench. Core Meh showed very clearly how it could not sustain both the gpu and cpu in the 6W package and actually it's base clock was 1,1GHz with a boost to 2,6GHz. In no way an achievement actually I would go as far as calling Core M Intel's worst Broadwell chip. They showed off 50k 3dmark cloudgate scores and talked about how it would fit 15W Haswell performance in a 4,5W "SDP"

We don't have benches by individuals yet but I can't see Carrizo being a worse case of Intel's deceptive statements. Aka lies.
 

SAAA

Senior member
May 14, 2014
541
126
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Check the post above yours their products talk for themselfs as in they totally don't meet the advertised numbers. Over 2x the performnace/Watt they say

Maybe if you look at the TDP or do a measurment but let it record data beyond the actually bench. Core Meh showed very clearly how it could not sustain both the gpu and cpu in the 6W package and actually it's base clock was 1,1GHz with a boost to 2,6GHz. In no way an achievement actually I would go as far as calling Core M Intel's worst Broadwell chip. They showed off 50k 3dmark cloudgate scores and talked about how it would fit 15W Haswell performance in a 4,5W "SDP"

We don't have benches by individuals yet but I can't see Carrizo being a worse case of Intel's deceptive statements. Aka lies.

They can't be lying for a single reason: thermodynamics.
They promised to put twice the transistors in the same area and managed to do so.
Now because temperatures aren't twice as high in Broadwell cores under the same loads and they are using the same thermal interface/cooling the power emitted must be half or close. Easy, no?
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,517
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They can't be lying for a single reason: thermodynamics.

They promised to put twice the transistors in the same area and managed to do so.
Now because temperatures aren't twice as high in Broadwell cores under the same loads and they are using the same thermal interface/cooling the power emitted must be half or close. Easy, no?

Yes, very easy...
 

maarten12100

Member
Jan 11, 2013
150
0
0
They can't be lying for a single reason: thermodynamics.
They promised to put twice the transistors in the same area and managed to do so.
Now because temperatures aren't twice as high in Broadwell cores under the same loads and they are using the same thermal interface/cooling the power emitted must be half or close. Easy, no?
Applied physics student and while there is obviously conversation of energy always there is a very simple thing you aren't accounting for. Also temperatures in non static situations don't say a thing.

TDP means thermal design power. Simply the integral of the power function is what accounts for the the TDP rating of the used cooler. I can say I have a 2W TDP chip by having it run the benchmark 30 seconds at 10W and 240 seconds at 1W. The result would be no that over a long time the averaged TDP doesn't exceed the chip rating. Thus the metric is correct.

The reason this can be done is because despite the 30 seconds grosely exceeding the rated specification the cooler has thermal inertia or thermal resistance it takes energy to increase the entropy.

TDP is a flawed metric and can not be used for power usage unless the duration of the ran benchmark approaches infinite.

In a nutshell TDP =/= power consumption in any case except the above.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
4,234
2,292
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Are you sure..?..

What about when someone say 100% while it s 10-15% in real world..?


You are full of bullshit.

Cussing is not allowed in the technical forums.
Markfw900
 
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Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,517
4,303
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Applied physics student and while there is obviously conversation of energy always there is a very simple thing you aren't accounting for. Also temperatures in non static situations don't say a thing.

TDP means thermal design power. Simply the integral of the power function is what accounts for the the TDP rating of the used cooler. I can say I have a 2W TDP chip by having it run the benchmark 30 seconds at 10W and 240 seconds at 1W. The result would be no that over a long time the averaged TDP doesn't exceed the chip rating. Thus the metric is correct.

The reason this can be done is because despite the 30 seconds grosely exceeding the rated specification the cooler has thermal inertia or thermal resistance it takes energy to increase the entropy.

TDP is a flawed metric and can not be used for power usage unless the duration of the ran benchmark approaches infinite.

In a nutshell TDP =/= power consumption in any case except the above.

Confirmed by scores of reviews..

Ice on the cake was a 4.5W Core M that was limlited to 8-9W in a 11"6 device, and wich started Cinebench at over 50W for the SoC during a few seconds, the times it take to reach the chip max temp.

Otherwise Intel slide above is about their alleged improvment from 22 to 14nm, they state 1.6x better perf/Watt overall and they achived 1.1-1.15x.

Since you have understanding of the matter i ll abund a little in explanations.

Schematicaly a transistor max frequency can be estimated with its resistance R and its input capacitance C, with max frequency being the ratio C/R, undimensionaly of course since we dont need at this point to introduce the pulsation 2pi as its not a variable and can be neglected if further computations are done with linear operators.

Intel stated that they reduced C by a 0.65 factor, let take this as granted and this would increase max frequency by 1.54x or improve perf/Watt by the same amount, and that s indeed the origin of their perf/watt claim.

Now what they didnt say is that the transistor resistance increased such that it could be brought down to Haswell process value only by raising the voltage by 1.13x IIRC such that its resistance is decreased by the square of this ratio (That s a fundamental law of mosfets, transconductance increase as a square of the voltage ).

The result is that the charge energy stored in 0.6C is factored by 1.13^2 = 0.83 less power, that s 20% improvement at best since my computations neglect some details...
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,517
4,303
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You are full of bullshit.

Not that i want to answer, that s for hygienic purposes that i saved your trollish and hatefull post...

I guess that it s the only thing left to some fanatics once they are short of intenable urban legends, straws, blank statements born out of desperation and bad faith, quite a collection of the worse that can be find on any forum..
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,517
4,303
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Like facts.


Get used to it, despite bns thrown at the problem Intel is outmatched by AMD s reduced means; and judging by some reactions here it looks like some people litteraly felt it as if there is an Excavator bucket planted in their feets palms...
 

maarten12100

Member
Jan 11, 2013
150
0
0
You are full of bullshit.
That is not a very constructive argument.
Like facts.
Care to show me some more "facts"

I'm sorry but maybe you should read the paper before posting lies about the content. Because the paper says exactly what I just said.

On page 2 of that linked pdf:
It is important to note that thermal design power is the maximum thermal powerthe processor will dissipate, but not the same as the maximum power the processor can consume.
It is possible for the processor to consume more than the TDP power for a short period of time that isn’t “thermally significant”. For example, a processor might consume slightly more power than the rated TDP value for say one microsecond...but then consume less power than the rated TDP value for a long period of time.
What they are saying here is basically TDP is only equal to power consumption when the duration of the test approaches infinite.

The thing about any scientific paper is if the writing style, writers, setup/sample prep and contents are all well presented in depth then not accepting it's findings is a strange thing to do. The same goes for educated forum posts a write up is made of a simplified transistor and the person who wrote it is almost directly called a liar for it. If you don't want to face reality then you really have no place in hardware or actually any branch. Being blinded whether it is by a previous theory or by the subconscious "Intel is the only one that makes good thing" mentality doesn't matter.
A certain quote by Plato is in order here I'm sure we all know which I mean.

Hope we get some number soon as that is actually the reason I'm still lurking this thread. Unlike some people here that seem to have a anti AMD agenda and don't want to engage in intel gathering. (horrible pun not intended)
 
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mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
3,974
0
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On AMD's ACP:
"Intel sees no value adding another specification to our processors."

Just a humble question: Does that interfere with SDP in any way?

Not at all. The context of SDP is mobile, and SDP gives a nice ballpark figure of what to expect in terms of battery life, and OEMs still have to design the devices taking into account TDP and other specs. ACP was just a useless metric created by a dishonest marketing department.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,517
4,303
136

Did you actualy read the paper..??..

Software and workloads used in performance tests may have been optimized for performance only on Intel microprocessors.

HA HA HA HA.........

You should consult other information andperformance tests to assist you in fully evaluating your contemplated purchases, including the performance of that product when combined with other products.

They almost state explicitely that it s viral marketing...
 

mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
3,974
0
76
I'm sorry but maybe you should read the paper before posting lies about the content. Because the paper says exactly what I just said.

On page 2 of that linked pdf:

What they are saying here is basically TDP is only equal to power consumption when the duration of the test approaches infinite.

What Intel said is that the TDP spec can be breached for a short period of time, but the spike would be so short that it wouldn't impact an average measured in any significant period of time. It is not what you said here:

TDP means thermal design power. Simply the integral of the power function is what accounts for the the TDP rating of the used cooler. I can say I have a 2W TDP chip by having it run the benchmark 30 seconds at 10W and 240 seconds at 1W. The result would be no that over a long time the averaged TDP doesn't exceed the chip rating. Thus the metric is correct.

30 seconds would be a thermally significant period of time by any standards.
 
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