AMD Carrizo Pre-release thread

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maarten12100

Member
Jan 11, 2013
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I don't understand why there is this obsession with high TDP Carrizos. Just get something with the i7-5750 or better. It'll destroy the 35W FX-8800P in every way.

When AMD said the Carrizo performed best at 15W, they actually meant that 15W is where it is somewhat competitive. At 35W and above, it doesn't make sense not to go intel.
15W is optimal if either both are loaded but results in the cpu clock suffering mostly.
At 35W you can run the cpu portion at 2.1GHz rather than ~1.1GHz. And run the GPU at 600-800MHz rather than 500MHz. So yes in terms of efficiency it's less good than at 15W but it would make the difference between playing games smoothly or being hit by a cpu bottleneck.

If it can meat or beat a 50W Intel + Nvidia setup with 35W it's still very efficient. (Let's say 15-20W for the Intel CPU + ~32W for the 840M)

I think they could match that Intel + Nv config going by the results Stilt posted for GTA V

15-25W:



35-42W:
 
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monstercameron

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2013
3,818
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I don't understand why there is this obsession with high TDP Carrizos. Just get something with the i7-5750 or better. It'll destroy the 35W FX-8800P in every way.

When AMD said the Carrizo performed best at 15W, they actually meant that 15W is where it is somewhat competitive. At 35W and above, it doesn't make sense not to go intel.
Maybe if this was an intel thread that comment would make sense. *obligatory analogy that proves your comment is non sense in a certain context* ...and thats why we want carrizo.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,813
11,168
136
Too many of the 15-25W Carrizo solutions feature CPU throttling over iGPU throttling (or unwanted/unnecessary dGPUs). Any OEM that features only 384sps in a 15W configuration with appropriate balancing between CPU and iGPU power draw will be fine, and may actually be the best that Carrizo can be.

Fact is that a lot of people are going to like 35W Carrizo, especially if it costs less than a 35W Broadwell or Skylake part.
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,655
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Too many of the 15-25W Carrizo solutions feature CPU throttling over iGPU throttling (or unwanted/unnecessary dGPUs). Any OEM that features only 384sps in a 15W configuration with appropriate balancing between CPU and iGPU power draw will be fine, and may actually be the best that Carrizo can be.

Fact is that a lot of people are going to like 35W Carrizo, especially if it costs less than a 35W Broadwell or Skylake part.
And who won't go considering that the Carrizo might cost 600 dollars while the Intel + nVidia can go up 800....

Also... I saw a 400 dollar A10 notebook... Better deal than the Pentium one.
 

mpc007

Junior Member
Aug 7, 2015
22
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0
And who won't go considering that the Carrizo might cost 600 dollars while the Intel + nVidia can go up 800....

Also... I saw a 400 dollar A10 notebook... Better deal than the Pentium one.

Exactly what I think. Of course an i7 + Nvidia dGPU config is better than 35w Carrizo. But it should cost a whole lot more. If AMD can get 75 percent of the Intel config at 60 percent of the price, it will be right on the sweet spot.

I don't want 15w Carrizo. Relative scores might be better at that TDP, but I can't play games with relative scores! Only cold hard FPS, fed by more TDP, will let me play nicely (at a lower price than Intel). Scores by The Stilt show that GTA V is within range with proper power envelope and proper RAM. That would be absolutely great. If OEMs will actually succeed in building a GTA V capable machine at 600 dollars, they are way ahead of Intel. But to do so, they can't get stuck at 15w.

That's why I don't follow the comment: 'OEMs destroy Carrizo by mounting dGPUs'. Carrizo IGP is nice, but most dGPUs will still be faster. The R9 380, which is actually quite a mobile powerhouse, seems a great combo with Carrizo. Use the IGP for everydays work, video (fhd and 4k), and casual gaming, and the R9 GPU for heavy loads (rendering, pro gaming). That wouldn't take any bite out of battery, since you can just pick which GPU does which work (works wonderful on my Beema A8 6410 + R5 M230). If they would offer such a machine, as the Lenovo Y700, at a price of 700 dollars, there's even less Intel can throw at it. AMD should look for market segments they can actually win in. The midrange gamer segment is one, and Carrizo seems made for it. They still have to discover it themselves, it seems.
 

maarten12100

Member
Jan 11, 2013
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That's why I don't follow the comment: 'OEMs destroy Carrizo by mounting dGPUs'. Carrizo IGP is nice, but most dGPUs will still be faster. The R9 380, which is actually quite a mobile powerhouse, seems a great combo with Carrizo.
People are mostly complaining about having to pay for a R7 M360 that does nothing really. Dual graphics is mostly a bust. As for pairing a dgpu with Carrizo. Construction cores perform pretty poor in terms of cpu so I wouldn't want it to be my Achilles heel.

Of course if you use your laptop while it's pluged into the charger then you may as well go all guns blazing no need to save power and even that 30-40% extra perf from dual graphics is welcome.
 

Flash831

Member
Aug 10, 2015
60
3
71
As I was taking a stroll here in Sweden I decided to check if the local retailers had received any Carrizo laptops, as they seemed to have appeared online.

To my surprise, both Carrizo and Carrizo-L were present :biggrin:

Lenovo Ideapad 500 -
A10-8700P, 256GB SSD, 8GB RAM, 1080p. :awe:
http://imgur.com/DnENXYK,zmggThv

Lenovo S41-35
A8-7410, 500 GB SSHD, 8GB RAM, 1080p
http://imgur.com/DnENXYK,zmggThv#1

At least AMD seems to receive a fair chance somewhere ^_^
The sales price of Carrizo laptops seems to be plummeting, in Sweden at least.

Acer E5-552-T99R
A10-8700P, 128GB SSD, 8GB RAM, 1080P, Win 8.1
5490 SEK = 650 USD
That's included a 25% sales tax (~520 USD without VAT).
 
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JonFX01

Junior Member
Aug 7, 2015
17
0
0
At 35W, and 42W, Carrizo GPU is better than Iris Pro..
Has someone actually tested them or are you just guessing?
This latter score 10% higher at 47W than a Carrizo GPU at 35W, and we all know what 47W means for Intel,
While there are no 37W Broadwell i5's and i7's, there are Haswell ones and I'm pretty sure they will make a comeback with Skylake.
Lenovo are not stupid, they took the solution that would provide the best perf/Watt at those TDPs.
Who told you Lenovo isn't also working on an intel+Nvidia version?
If it can meat or beat a 50W Intel + Nvidia setup with 35W it's still very efficient. (Let's say 15-20W for the Intel CPU + ~32W for the 840M)

I think they could match that Intel + Nv config going by the results Stilt posted for GTA V
Why intel+Nvidia? Intel's iGPUs are powerful enough to take on Carrizo APUs alone.

And speaking of efficiency, NBC recently tested both intel+Nvidia and AMD+AMD versions of the HP Pavilion. Intel+Nvidia was clearly more efficient and more powerful.

What are we doing now? Waiting for other notebooks, hoping the results will be different and favouring AMD for some reason?
Maybe if this was an intel thread that comment would make sense. *obligatory analogy that proves your comment is non sense in a certain context* ...and thats why we want carrizo.
Hardware forums exist to compare it so that the the consumer can choose the best. If you are afraid of your pet product being confronted with the truth, I suggest you lock yourself in a basement, stick your fingers in your ears and hum real loud until it's over.
If they would offer such a machine, as the Lenovo Y700, at a price of 700 dollars, there's even less Intel can throw at it.
Whoah 700 dollars? I see Acer crapbooks with the A10-8700 and thr R7 M360 at that price, the ones with the FX-8800P going all the way up to 900.

The problem with Carrizo is that it isn't even cheaper than intel in any reasonable configuration.
 
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maarten12100

Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Has someone actually tested them
Why intel+Nvidia? Intel's iGPUs are powerful enough to take on Carrizo APUs alone.
I doubt that this is true unless you are comparing to those top of the line + L4 units. Which not only cost 600 for the chip alone but far more importantly consume like 50-60W while offering their respective performance. Might as well go Intel + Nvidia it's cheaper and more efficient.

Also Intel graphics were garbage in every way the last time I used them (2013) and unless they fixed all these issues I'd rather not use them ever again.

And speaking of efficiency, NBC recently tested both intel+Nvidia and AMD+AMD versions of the HP Pavilion. Intel+Nvidia was clearly more efficient and more powerful.
Not the top model thus clocks compensate for the extra CUs
Different screen (at 17" that matters)
Gimped ram config
Different HDDs

Obviously not a fair comparison
Besides the points there are a couple of thing that leave question marks. Such as listing an average idle power cosnumption of 10W and a max an min of 10.8 and 5.3 respectivly for the Intel+Nv based one. 10W on average must be bogus but an average is over a larger time period thus it must be representative unless they dropped the ball twice and measured for 20 seconds.

If they have the same average power consumption their duration on battery should be equal. I say should be because laptops with bigger batteries and lower average power consumption gave lower run times than this notebook.
As can be seen here: http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Asus-Asuspro-Essential-P751JF-Notebook.144427.0.html
This notebook has an average idle power consumption of 9.2W...
A Bigger battery of 47Wh rather than 41Wh...
... Yet can idle for 2 hours less than the HP Pavilion


What I think is going on is that they havent checked actual capacity and it does happen that batteries come from factory with 200 cycles already obviously degrading them to the 30Wh area down from 41 or 47.

What are we doing now? Waiting for other notebooks, hoping the results will be different and favouring AMD for some reason?
Interesting question asked as if anyone is so biased. The thing is the main reason why I buy a laptop before decididing whether I will keep it or not is because I don't trust reviews. Because usually the reviewers are obviously either incompetent or payed off. Only on a rare occasion a review isn't riddled with flaws and contradictions as you can see above.

To conclude I'm probably going to try and get my hand on a fx-8800p based machine to judge for myself. We know Carrizo is better than Intel's offerings if Tom'sHw is to be believed as they claim their hand on experience has convinced them that Carrizo could be a game changer not just for AMD but for the mobile market. Additionally we have Stillt providing numbers of what Carrizo really can do and yes at 35-42W it actually matches the 840M in GTA V.

Going back to the real problem at hand with the cheap gimped a10-8700p based HP pavilion.
"Our gaming tests confirm the evaluation that the dual-graphics does not bring any advantages for the user right now. Except for a few titles like Crysis 3 or Tomb Raider, the Radeon R8 M365DX is not faster than a single Radeon R7 M360; the majority of titles show the same or even lower frame rates. You also get very uneven frame times or micro stutters, respectively, because of the asymmetrical Crossfire, so we recommend the manual deactivation of Dual Graphics in the Catalyst Control Center and that you only use the dedicated GPU instead. Still, the Pavilion 17 only manages current titles with low or medium details and 1024x768 or 1366x768 pixels."
Using dual graphics in your product while it sucks is bad. Not sure what they are talking about this is symmetrical crossfire both chips have a matching architecture (tonga) and the same number of CUs.
 
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Vesku

Diamond Member
Aug 25, 2005
3,743
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The sales price of Carrizo laptops seems to be plummeting, in Sweden at least.

Acer E5-552-T99R
A10-8700P, 128GB SSD, 8GB RAM, 1080P, Win 8.1
5490 SEK = 650 USD
That's included a 25% sales tax (~520 USD without VAT).

If that 1080P is IPS that's basically my desired configuration, shame I'm unlikely to find such a product offered in the US in the $500-600 range.
 

maarten12100

Member
Jan 11, 2013
150
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If that 1080P is IPS that's basically my desired configuration, shame I'm unlikely to find such a product offered in the US in the $500-600 range.
You could get the HP Envy and swap out the HDD, ram and screen and have your desired config. Though not in that price be glad that you can already get things cheap in the US though
 
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Erenhardt

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2012
3,251
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People are mostly complaining about having to pay for a R7 M360 that does nothing really. Dual graphics is mostly a bust. As for pairing a dgpu with Carrizo. Construction cores perform pretty poor in terms of cpu so I wouldn't want it to be my Achilles heel.

Of course if you use your laptop while it's pluged into the charger then you may as well go all guns blazing no need to save power and even that 30-40% extra perf from dual graphics is welcome.
ekhem!
incompetence or what?
Here is previous gen 'kaveri' in dualgraphics (desktop, but still):
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9217/the-amd-a8-7650k-apu-review-also-new-testing-methodology/7



In Dual Graphics mode, the frame rate moves up to just under double the integrated value.



Again, dual graphics mode offers almost double the frame rate, almost hitting 60 FPS



When we stick in the R7 240, the difference becomes negligable , and only a small rise [33%] is seen from dual graphics.



. Dual graphics mode gives a good boost to the average frame rates, moving from 44 FPS to 64 FPS on the A8-7650K.
 

maarten12100

Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Dependent on usage case the average is about 40% increase. Though those are framerates the frametime story may be very different. Did the frametime decrease proportionally I don't think so.

Sure with DX's unbalanced CF abilities the picture will be different but who is going to buy a laptop to use it in 2 years to play a game. I buy a laptop to play games now not in 2 years.
 

Flash831

Member
Aug 10, 2015
60
3
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If that 1080P is IPS that's basically my desired configuration, shame I'm unlikely to find such a product offered in the US in the $500-600 range.

I don't think it's IPS. If you wan't IPS you probably need to go for this Toshiba.

A10-8700p
SSD 256GB
8GB RAM (1x8GB, 1600mhz)
1080p, IPS.
8495 SEK = ~1000 USD (inc 25% sales tax, 800 USD without VAT)
 

mpc007

Junior Member
Aug 7, 2015
22
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Well, obviously a Carrizo device priced above 700 dollars is overpriced. I don't get the OEMs who do this, people in the 700 - 1000 pricerange will probably go for Intel no matter what. As AMD said, the sweetspot for Carrizo is between 400 and 700 dollars. OEMs should focus at this segment, as i said in an earlier post.
 

Willyfisch

Junior Member
Jul 30, 2015
5
0
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I don't think it's IPS. If you wan't IPS you probably need to go for this Toshiba.

A10-8700p
SSD 256GB
8GB RAM (1x8GB, 1600mhz)
1080p, IPS.
8495 SEK = ~1000 USD (inc 25% sales tax, 800 USD without VAT)

Is there any place that actually ships to outside of Scandinavia?

800$ without taxes seems not expensive, with SSD, Full HD IPS panel.
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,655
138
106
Well, obviously a Carrizo device priced above 700 dollars is overpriced. I don't get the OEMs who do this, people in the 700 - 1000 pricerange will probably go for Intel no matter what. As AMD said, the sweetspot for Carrizo is between 400 and 700 dollars. OEMs should focus at this segment, as i said in an earlier post.
Check the new Skylake prices and you will realize that OEMs really went retarded this time...
Intel MUST start to make their own laptop brand to the correct prices...
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,172
3,869
136
Check the new Skylake prices and you will realize that OEMs really went retarded this time...
Intel MUST start to make their own laptop brand to the correct prices...

There s a thread for Intel SKL, no need to derail Carrizo s one with irrelevant comparisons.

And also, you dont need to answer to this post..
 

JonFX01

Junior Member
Aug 7, 2015
17
0
0
There s a thread for Intel SKL, no need to derail Carrizo s one with irrelevant comparisons.
When Skylake comes out for mobile, I'm personally going to see to it that this thread gets flooded with comparisons.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,172
3,869
136
When Skylake comes out for mobile, I'm personally going to see to it that this thread gets flooded with comparisons.

Relevant comparisons are welcomed, by relevant i mean technical comparisons about power, perfs and whetever else that is related to APU technology.

Unfortunately few people do their homework, so expect particularly some fantasy power numbers, the kind i unrelentlessly debunked in some threads.
 
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Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
819
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When Skylake comes out for mobile, I'm personally going to see to it that this thread gets flooded with comparisons.

And I'll personally see to it that you get infracted if you "flood" anything.

On-topic discussion is welcomed, flooding a thread is not.
 

maarten12100

Member
Jan 11, 2013
150
0
0
The only Frage I have left would be when is it going to be available in Germany. I like the Envy even without the 1080P screen as I could add that myself if needed. Also I'm sad that it can't run above 15W even when I command it to. Crappy cooling which I could also solve but there is still that HW lock probs.

I mean Q4 says literally nothing it could mean somewhere in December for all we know.
 
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