AMD confirms feature-level 12_0 for GCN maximum

[DeathReborn]

I got a 19" 1600x1200 CRT late 2001. I remember most PC gamers on this site were gaming at 1280x1024 or 1600x1200. I don't know anyone from this sub-forum who buys high-end cards today who was gaming at 800x600 or 1024x768 in 2005. I am pretty sure you were the minority.



I already said if you were OK playing at 800x600 or 1024x768 with most things on low in 2005 when you played BF2, that's your gaming choice. Most gamers weren't playing on an 8500 card at those settings in the summer of 2005. If you are the type of gamer who keeps his cards for 7-10 years, sure maybe get a card with DX12_1 feature set and play at the low settings 5 years from today on a 980Ti.

In late 2001 I was using a Sony GDM FW900 24" Trinitron, I bought it with a GeForce 3 Ti 500 which I upgraded to a 9700 Pro in 2002. Even the 9700 Pro wasn't really doing enough @ 1200p, it was only when I moved to the 6800GT SLI that it really began to get good.

I will be getting Fiji WCE for my birthday from my dad but I gotta wait a week at least to get it. I just hope Fiji will be fast enough for 4K for the next 2 years in DX12. I will be finally upgrading the 4 machines with 7870's (bought at launch) to full Tonga 4GB if possible for the benefits of DX12 API & FL.

 

[Hitman928]

There are still a lot of options here. Last I heard, MS was still nailing down final specs for dx12 though that was a month or two ago. It could be that the hardware is there in GCN 1.0 for tier 2 but something in it is bugged which was fixed in 1.1. If you already own a GCN 1.0 card and not looking to upgrade, just wait to DX 12 releases. If you're thinking about upgrading for DX 12, wait for full DX 12 cards to be released. . . simple.

 

[Spjut]

I hope Anandtech will have a DX12 article, similar to the DX11 article, explaining the new features and various feature levels

 

[Noctifer616]

I hope Anandtech will have a DX12 article, similar to the DX11 article, explaining the new features and various feature levels

He will. From B3D forum:

I have something in mind, but I need to wait for everyone to get back from Computex (and likely their post-Computex vacations). So it won't happen for a little bit. But overall I agree with you, the rabbling has only gotten worse

 

[Piroko]

Back to topic, has this been posted yet?
Clarifications about Tier and Feature Levels of the DirectX 12 - bitsandchips.it

In the end, as regards the support of every single capability, it is currently not possible, nor appropriate, to draw up a complete and well-defined table showing the support of on sale hardware.
Unless you name is AMD, INTEL or NVIDIA, you cannot present such report with the drivers currently available on the public channels, nor with non-NDA documentation, therefore everything else is only to be considered as pure rants.

Autore: Alessio Tommasini
Esperto in: Programmazione, gaming, Windows

 

[AnandThenMan]

feature level 12.1 does not coincide with an imaginary “full/complete DirectX 12 support”

There ya go but this won't stop the constant disinformation campaign going on.

 

[RussianSensation]

There ya go but this won't stop the constant disinformation campaign going on.

The irony is that the people pushing DX12_1 future proofing are Fermi and Kepler owners, both architectures that were less "future proof" than GCN, and both ran out of VRAM before AMD's cards. Now higher DX12_1 support is being pushed as a key competitive advantage for Maxwell but Maxwell will soon compete with R9 300 / Fiji series. Since we don't have all the key info on the new cards, we can't even assess just how far ahead Maxwell 2.0 supposedly is. For instance, what's more "future proof", a 3.5GB 970 or an 8GB R9 390? I would rather get a card with at least 4GB of VRAM than some hypothetical DX12_1 feature level advantage.

 

[Pinstripe]

The baseline here will be console development. Xbox One has a 12_0 Chip, so that's good to go for a loooooong time.

 

[exar333]

The baseline here will be console development. Xbox One has a 12_0 Chip, so that's good to go for a loooooong time.

This.

Lets just get to 12, and worry about 12.1 and 12.2 later (or never).

 

[Abwx]

The irony is that the people pushing DX12_1 future proofing are Fermi and Kepler owners, both architectures that were less "future proof" than GCN, and both ran out of VRAM before AMD's cards. Now higher DX12_1 support is being pushed as a key competitive advantage for Maxwell but Maxwell will soon compete with R9 300 / Fiji series. Since we don't have all the key info on the new cards, we can't even assess just how far ahead Maxwell 2.0 supposedly is. For instance, what's more "future proof", a 3.5GB 970 or an 8GB R9 390? I would rather get a card with at least 4GB of VRAM than some hypothetical DX12_1 feature level advantage.

it is worth to restate that feature level 12.1 does not coincide with an imaginary “full/complete DirectX 12 support” since it does not cover many important or secondary features exposed by Direct3D 12.

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=237290#post237290

 

[AnandThenMan]

12.1 moniker seems like something Nvidia made up.

 

[sontin]

Back to topic, has this been posted yet?
Clarifications about Tier and Feature Levels of the DirectX 12 - bitsandchips.it

Autore: Alessio Tommasini
Esperto in: Programmazione, gaming, Windows

The Ressource Binding model is one of the three key features of Feature Level 12_0. Next to it there are Tiled Ressources and UAVs.

I dont get why he is just writing about it and ignores the other ones...

 

[Alessio1989]

The Ressource Binding model is one of the three key features of Feature Level 12_0. Next to it there are Tiled Ressources and UAVs.

I dont get why he is just writing about it and ignores the other ones...

Hi, you are right, FL 12.0 requires tiled resource tier 2 and (a well-defined and rich set of) typed UAV loads in addition to FL 11.1 (as long resource binding tier 2 to brake with the old requirements inherited from DX 11).

I simply wrote that small article to make clearer the difference between resource binding tiers and feature levels, since a lot of "tech" website - especially some well known Italian websites - made a lot of confusion those days.
It was asked me to write about that since they know (on bitsandchips.it) that I am a member of the DX12 EAP. It was not my intention to make a full article about D3D12 nor to spoil any "super-secret" information (all I wrote about is publicly available).

 

[Piroko]

The Ressource Binding model is one of the three key features of Feature Level 12_0. Next to it there are Tiled Ressources and UAVs.

I dont get why he is just writing about it and ignores the other ones...

If I had to take a guess, probably because that is the single feature that stands out for him. Other DX12 programmers might have a different focus, but this resource binding model seems to be the (DX12-)elephant in the room.

 

[Enigmoid]

12.1 moniker seems like something Nvidia made up.

I know right?

Just like 10.1 and 11.1. :whiste:

 

[Alessio1989]

At the time D3D11.1 was out, FL 11.1 came with some very interesting UAV features and improvements not exposed to FL 11.0.. For some developers it was a very nice improvement.

If I had to take a guess, probably because that is the single feature that stands out for him. Other DX12 programmers might have a different focus, but this resource binding model seems to be the (DX12-)elephant in the room.

It does not stand out for me, it simply was not the subject of that small article.

 

[RussianSensation]

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=237290#post237290

It is a bit odd that NV is all of a sudden spinning DX12_1 so much and creating marketing slides specifically for it. Why journalists even care to write so many articles on DX12_0 vs. DX12_1 feature set unless NV is doing background marketing push for it? There are no DX12 games out today, and not a single DX12.1 has even been announced/confirmed to be in development. When are those coming? In 2-3 years or will NV work with developers to put them into GameWorks titles?

Is nV trying to spin DX12_1 as more "future-proof"? That's funny.

AMD vs. NV marketing starting June 16, 2015
R9 390 8GB vs. 970 3.5GB
R9 390X 8GB vs. 980 4GB
Fiji - next generation HBM GPU memory 512GB/sec+ vs. GM200 336GB/sec

NV's response is DX12.1? Hilarious spin.

Their GeForce 6800 cards did support SM3.0 but once games actually used it, the next gen GeForce 7 was actually what one wanted to play them with HDR on (SM3.0 feature):

"The GeForce 7800 GTX is really much faster than the older card in Far Cry’s HDR mode. Even the single 7800 GTX easily maintains a 60+fps frame rate in 1280x1024 and 45+fps in 1600x1200. The results of the GeForce 6800 Ultra are 40+ and 25+ frames per second, respectively. Note also that the frame rate never bottoms out below 30fps with G70-based solutions."

"The same is true for the Research map: the GeForce 7800 GTX makes even 1600x1200 resolution playable in HDR, yet we think 1280x1024 would be preferable, just to have some performance reserve. So, you can now enjoy HDR effects without reducing the image resolution and, accordingly, the overall image quality."

The funny part is how did Far Cry 1 (that supported the latest tech at the time) actually run on X850XT/X800XL series that lacked SM3.0 compared to 6800GT/6800Ultra without this feature but with everything else maxed out with 4xMSAA/16AF?

X850XT PE 42% faster than 6800U
X800XL 30% faster than 6800GT

Source

NV marketing at its finest: Spin City.

NV's cards often age worse than ATI's/AMD's. Can NV guarantee they won't abandon Maxwell optimizations in 1.5 years from now? Can NV guarantee 3.5GB of VRAM won't become an issue on the 970? :sneaky:

 

[AnandThenMan]

I know right?

Just like 10.1 and 11.1. :whiste:

Historically the dot one versions are incremental updates that take place some time after the new Win/DX versions are released.

 

[Abwx]

It is a bit odd that NV is all of a sudden spinning DX12_1 so much and creating marketing slides specifically for it. Why journalists even care to write so many articles on DX12_0 vs. DX12_1 feature set unless NV is doing background marketing push for it?

There are no DX12 games out today, and not a single DX12.1 has even been announced/confirmed to be in development. When are those coming? In 2-3 years or will NV work with developers to put them into GameWorks titles?

Is nV trying to spin DX12_1 as more "future-proof"? That's funny.

For the time we dont know what are exactly those difference but if ever the DX12_1 moniker was created for Nvidia then MS has been quite gullible to accept Nvidia tengential offer, it is obvious that they want to use a simple categorisation as a marketing tool, even if DX12_1 end being a subset of DX12, nevermind, 1 + 2 + 1 > 1 + 2 + 0............

NV's cards often age worse than ATI's/AMD's. Can NV guarantee they won't abandon Maxwell optimizations in 1.5 years from now? Can NV guarantee 3.5GB of VRAM won't become an issue on the 970? :sneaky:

So AMD users are less likely to upgrade in let say 4 years than Nvidia users, one make more money by providing less future proofing, AMD should seriously question their busines model.

I m all for products that last as much as possible but so far they didnt get the return on this investment, surely because of a lack of marketisation, heck, before seeing those graphs i wasnt aware of this fact and it s not like i m not hanging in tech sites...

 

[desprado]

It is a bit odd that NV is all of a sudden spinning DX12_1 so much and creating marketing slides specifically for it. Why journalists even care to write so many articles on DX12_0 vs. DX12_1 feature set unless NV is doing background marketing push for it? There are no DX12 games out today, and not a single DX12.1 has even been announced/confirmed to be in development. When are those coming? In 2-3 years or will NV work with developers to put them into GameWorks titles?

Is nV trying to spin DX12_1 as more "future-proof"? That's funny.

AMD vs. NV marketing starting June 16, 2015
R9 390 8GB vs. 970 3.5GB
R9 390X 8GB vs. 980 4GB
Fiji - next generation HBM GPU memory 512GB/sec+ vs. GM200 336GB/sec

NV's response is DX12.1? Hilarious spin.

Their GeForce 6800 cards did support SM3.0 but once games actually used it, the next gen GeForce 7 was actually what one wanted to play them with HDR on (SM3.0 feature):

"The GeForce 7800 GTX is really much faster than the older card in Far Cry’s HDR mode. Even the single 7800 GTX easily maintains a 60+fps frame rate in 1280x1024 and 45+fps in 1600x1200. The results of the GeForce 6800 Ultra are 40+ and 25+ frames per second, respectively. Note also that the frame rate never bottoms out below 30fps with G70-based solutions."

"The same is true for the Research map: the GeForce 7800 GTX makes even 1600x1200 resolution playable in HDR, yet we think 1280x1024 would be preferable, just to have some performance reserve. So, you can now enjoy HDR effects without reducing the image resolution and, accordingly, the overall image quality."

The funny part is how did Far Cry 1 (that supported the latest tech at the time) actually run on X850XT/X800XL series that lacked SM3.0 compared to 6800GT/6800Ultra without this feature but with everything else maxed out with 4xMSAA/16AF?

X850XT PE 42% faster than 6800U
X800XL 30% faster than 6800GT

Source

NV marketing at its finest: Spin City.

NV's cards often age worse than ATI's/AMD's. Can NV guarantee they won't abandon Maxwell optimizations in 1.5 years from now? Can NV guarantee 3.5GB of VRAM won't become an issue on the 970? :sneaky:

Can you grantee that 4GB HBM wont be an issue?

Not matter who much fast it is but the fact is that 4GB is 4GB and no one can justify that.

 

[Silverforce11]

Can you grantee that 4GB HBM wont be an issue?

Not matter who much fast it is but the fact is that 4GB is 4GB and no one can justify that.

Is your 980 SLI a problem with 4GB?

 

[Abwx]

Is your 980 SLI a problem with 4GB?

Lol...

 

[desprado]

Is your 980 SLI a problem with 4GB?

Wrong my GTX 980 Ti is coming next week and yes it is more future proff than GTX 980 or fury.

 

[Silverforce11]

Wrong my GTX 980 Ti is coming next week and yes it is more future proff than GTX 980 or fury.

Maybe it would matter if you actually had at least a 4K monitor.

But seeing as 980 SLI is faster than Titan X at 4K, it shows 4GB vram isn't a limitation, period.

 

[DarkKnightDude]

Depends on how games cache it I'd imagine. Some games have been lavish in it lately because of the 8GB in PS4/XBone