AMD GPU14 Tech Event Sept 25 - AMD Hawiian Islands

[pipm1]

Should work on the current 7xxx series ones too.
Anyone with a GCN GPU is set to benefit from it.

Thanks Arkadrel! This has been an interesting week with AMD & Steam news! I look forward to actual card specification details.

 

[chimaxi83]

The arguing is because AMD brought something new, interesting, and potentially awesome to the market, and it wasn't Nvidia. It's pretty obvious. Had it been Nvidia, there would be nerdgasms and "this is the final nail in AMDs coffin!" posts everywhere.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

And we'd have the same people saying it's awesome saying it's terrible...

What's your point?

Personally I think it's anti competition and anti consumer, but at this point it's so insignificant it doesn't warrant the attention it is getting. However with the release lineup AMD announced and the audio, what else are people going to talk about?

 

[Skurge]

And we'd have the same people saying it's awesome saying it's terrible...

What's your point?

Personally I think it's anti competition and anti consumer, but at this point it's so insignificant it doesn't warrant the attention it is getting. However with the release lineup AMD announced and the audio, what else are people going to talk about?

It's Sad, but this is whats it's come to. Comsumers have been supporting nVidia's antics and now AMD has followed suit cause what they did before wasn't working for them.

At least we have better performance to look forward to.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

And we'd have the same people saying it's awesome saying it's terrible...

What's your point?

Personally I think it's anti competition and anti consumer, but at this point it's so insignificant it doesn't warrant the attention it is getting. However with the release lineup AMD announced and the audio, what else are people going to talk about?

I've owned more Nvidia GPU's in my nerd career than I have ATi, or AMD. I can honestly say that if Nvidia had done this and I was on a AMD card right now I wouldn't be complaining. I would be thinking about how awesome it would be if I could buy a card and get 120fps with eye candy on at a decent price. So instead of complaining I would be waiting eagerly to see how much performance this provides and planning future purchases from there.

Neither side of the argument really knows what the full effect of Mantle will be, but getting someone like Repi at DICE to come out and endorse this is huge.

Frostbite is by far the most impressive engine out there these days. Cryengine and UE4 may have some impressive features, but they lack in performance compared to Frostbite. Frostbite just runs absolutely great. On a single 7970 I can get 120fps with very infrequent drops down to around 90fps just by lowering a few settings. There is no way you are pulling that off with comparable visuals in Cryengine or Unreal. Repi/DICE are obviously using some sort of black magic.

I for one think the hype is deserved. It's the fruition of AMD trying to right the ship. All the great talent they have brought back into the company is on display here, and it shows that they aren't content to just let nvidia and intel dictate to them because of sheer financial superiority. They are fighting back after years of giving ground. Even if it doesn't work it shows that AMD is not going to just roll over and die, and thus consumers should rejoice.

 

[2is]

NVidia should allow AMD to run GPU PhysX
AMD should allow Mantle to work on NVidia GPUs

Of course, that will likely never happen, but from a consumers perspective, it would be ideal.

 

[FiendishMind]

NVidia should allow AMD to run GPU PhysX

I don't think AMD has ever been particularly interested in having PhysX or CUDA run on their GPUs. IIRC an early effort to port CUDA and PhysX to Radeons ultimately fizzled because AMD failed to provide sufficient support.

http://www.tgdaily.com/hardware-features/38283-nvidia-supports-physx-effort-on-ati-radeon

 

[2is]

Only reason why AMD wouldn't want that support is if NVidia's royalties were far too high, which I suspect is the case.

 

[FiendishMind]

Only reason why AMD wouldn't want that support is if NVidia's royalties were far too high, which I suspect is the case.

Why would AMD be required to pay royalties to Nvidia for supporting an effort from a third party, an effort Nvidia already approved of? Wouldn't royalties only be involved if AMD started creating it's own software using CUDA?

 

[2is]

Why would AMD be required to pay royalties to Nvidia for supporting an effort from a third party, an effort Nvidia already approved of? Wouldn't royalties only be involved if AMD started creating it's own software using CUDA?

Because if you think NVidia will see this from your perspective, which is, AMD helping them out, I think you're mistaken. NVidia would see it as providing a feature to AMD that they wouldn't otherwise have. Not unlike Intel licensing AMD's 64 bit extensions.

In the end, it's mutually beneficial IMO, but NVidia is not in the business of giving away these things for free.

 

[blackened23]

Because if you think NVidia will see this from your perspective, which is, AMD helping them out, I think you're mistaken. NVidia would see it as providing a feature to AMD that they wouldn't otherwise have. Not unlike Intel licensing AMD's 64 bit extensions.

In the end, it's mutually beneficial IMO, but NVidia is not in the business of giving away these things for free.

AMD won't let nvidia use Mantle. Not unless their decision makers are idiots. Actually, a lot of their suits are idiots, but the point remains: Mantle being AMD only brings AMD sales. Making Mantle available for everyone, does not - they would give away sales to their biggest competitor. Much for the same reason that some folks buy NV hardware for their specific features - nvidia does not give those away, because it creates value for their products. AMD finally did something right (maybe) by creating value for their brand; they will completely throw that away by allowing anyone else to use it.

 

[2is]

AMD won't let nvidia use Mantle. Not unless their decision makers are idiots. Actually, a lot of their suits are idiots, but the point remains: Mantle being AMD only brings AMD sales. Making Mantle available for everyone, does not - they would give away sales to their biggest competitor. Much for the same reason that some folks buy NV hardware for their specific features - nvidia does not give those away, because it creates value for their products. AMD finally did something right (maybe) by creating value for their brand; they will completely throw that away by allowing anyone else to use it.

I know they won't. I'm just talking about it from a consumers (mine) perspective. While it remains to be seen how well Mantle does, it would be nice, as a consumer to not have to choose between Mantle or Physics and better multi-GPU support.

That said, if they SELL Mantle licensing, they can still make money. They may not sell more cards, but they would still increase their revenue.

 

[FiendishMind]

Because if you think NVidia will see this from your perspective, which is, AMD helping them out, I think you're mistaken. NVidia would see it as providing a feature to AMD that they wouldn't otherwise have. Not unlike Intel licensing AMD's 64 bit extensions.

In the end, it's mutually beneficial IMO, but NVidia is not in the business of giving away these things for free.

What I mean is I don't think Nvidia actually had any legal basis for charging AMD royalties in this specific case, so I'm not sure royalties were even an issue.

 

[piesquared]

AMD won't let nvidia use Mantle. Not unless their decision makers are idiots. Actually, a lot of their suits are idiots, but the point remains: Mantle being AMD only brings AMD sales. Making Mantle available for everyone, does not - they would give away sales to their biggest competitor. Much for the same reason that some folks buy NV hardware for their specific features - nvidia does not give those away, because it creates value for their products. AMD finally did something right (maybe) by creating value for their brand; they will completely throw that away by allowing anyone else to use it.

Why, you don't like competition?

a lot of their suits are idiots

those 'idiots' just outmaneuvered both intel and nv.


[edit]
There must be some real geniuses there.
It's actually quite amazing how they have survived and thrived! under ridiculous conditions. At 1/25th and 1/2 the size! I'd say there's some brilliant suits there actually.

The engineering behind all this is truly awesome.

 

[2is]

What I mean is I don't think Nvidia actually had any legal basis for charging AMD royalties in this specific case, so I'm not sure royalties were even an issue.

A legal basis? I'm not sure what you mean. It's their technology, they can charge for it if they want.

 

[RussianSensation]

AMD won't let nvidia use Mantle.

Even if Mantle is 100% open source, my understanding is it's a lower-level API that specifically targets GCN. It won't even benefit VLIW cards from AMD. What benefit would NV get from Mantle since this API is architecture specific?

 

[FiendishMind]

A legal basis? I'm not sure what you mean. It's their technology, they can charge for it if they want.

That would be true if AMD had been seeking a license to use CUDA or PhysX with their hardware but they weren't. A third party (Eran Badit) was creating a utility that would have allowed CUDA (and by extension GPU PhysX) to run on AMD's unified shader based GPUs. Nvidia could have tried to force Eran Badit to cease his development/support of the utility through legal action but they couldn't just start charging AMD royalties as there wasn't actually any licensing arrangement between Nvidia and AMD in place. Nvidia was not only fine with the development of the utility, they were already supporting Eran's effort, so the ball was completely in AMD's court.

 

[2is]

Its true regardless. I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure nVidia would be well within their right to issue a cease and desist if that were to happen. It IS their API and it is NOT open source and would require licensing to use legally. Pretty sure AMD knows this. You can't just use another companies IP at whim without permission. Based in this, the only ball in their court was whether or not to invite a law suit and smartly chose not to.

 

[FiendishMind]

Its true regardless. I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure nVidia would be well within their right to issue a cease and desist if that were to happen. It IS their API and it is NOT open source and would require licensing to use legally. Pretty sure AMD knows this. You can't just use another companies IP at whim without permission. Based in this, the only ball in their court was whether or not to invite a law suit and smartly chose not to.

AMD weren't making use of Nvidia's IP, the third party (Eran Badit) was and he clearly had permission. I seriously doubt AMD chose not to support it due to any kind of legal reasons.

 

[Final8ty]

http://www.donanimhaber.com/ekran-karti/haberleri/AMD-Radeon-R9-290X-ve-yeni-nesil-teknolojiler.htm

 

[raghu78]

http://www.donanimhaber.com/ekran-karti/haberleri/AMD-Radeon-R9-290X-ve-yeni-nesil-teknolojiler.htm

nice :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Skurge]

nice :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

How is this better than the current implementation?

 

[raghu78]

How is this better than the current implementation?

current solution for frame pacing for AMD GPUs like Tahiti and Pitcairn is software driver based. Hawaii is the only AMD GPU to have hardware frame pacing similar to Nvidia Kepler GTX 690.

http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/article-keynote

 

[sushiwarrior]

No more 4k/eyefinity issues due to reverting to SW compos mode when CF strap bandwidth is overloaded. Expect support on Bonaire XT/XTX as well.

 

[Kenmitch]

How is this better than the current implementation?

No more putting the 2nd card in the slot that the bridge reaches. MB dependent on PCI wiring but you'd be able to 4 slot space etc. if needed without having to hunt down a longer crossfire bridge.