Like what? Care to point it out and correct it? It's not that bad is it...
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But the Mantle initiative with a combined Intel/AMD/NV effort would have been preferred.
This seems to be like PhysX, just way worse. Although the potential rewards are also way greater. Difficult to judge, we need more info. But the Mantle initiative with a combined Intel/AMD/NV effort would have been preferred.
As users, what do we have to lose? If Mantle doesn't gain traction, it's business as usual. And if it does have an impact, then Matle will address a problem that Nvidia has had to deal with as well and they will jump on board too.
So you want to go back in the mid 90s where we had different APIs for different hardware vendors and you need to check if a game support your hardware?
I guess a lot of people are still to young or were not interested in PC gaming at this time.
Way worse how....?
The same could be said of physx (and any other single manufacturer initiative), right? () At least, to my understanding, it's open for NV to jump on board. Nothing is stopping them, I haven't seen any sign that they have to pay for anything to AMD (unlike the reverse).
There will always be the DX option. It'll just be the slow, Nvidia option.
Proprietary. Yes, technically it is "open", but it still is focused on GCN. And GCN is AMDs architecture, thus proprietary.
Let's assume for a moment that Nvidia had offered PhysX to AMD (we'll never know for sure if they did or didn't, but let's assume). Optimized for CUDA and CUDA is Nvidias API, thus proprietary.
The difference is, that Mantle likely involves optimizations on a much wider scale and not just targets a couple of effects in 1-2 games/year.
So you want to go back in the mid 90s where we had different APIs for different hardware vendors and you need to check if a game support your hardware?
I guess a lot of people are still to young or were not interested in PC gaming at this time.
We had a chance to sit down with AMD Product Manager Devon Nekechuck to see how AMD’s new top dog R9 290X stacks up against the green team’s best single-GPU offering. According to Nekechuck, even though the R9 290X uses a 438 square mm die, which is significantly smaller than the Titan’s 550 sq. mm GK110 offering, it “will definitely compete with the GTX 780 and Titan.” When we asked what this means in real-world terms, he stated, “with Battlefield 4 running with Mantel (AMD’s new graphics API), the card will be able to ‘ridicule’ the Titan in terms of performance.”
I'm not convinced that an API that makes games run faster with no obvious drawbacks, and is open enough that Nvidia simply needs to change their architecture to suit, is "way worse" than PhysX or even a bad thing at all.
Ask yourself this - would it be bad if Nvidia didn't exist? Clearly not. Therefore you are simply hating on it because it can be used by AMD to gain performance leverage over Nvidia. That's what the name of the game is.
I turned 37 past June so I am well aware of your concerns here. I am more focused on actual benefits, if Mantle takes off then it's legit and beneficial to all of us. Even if things get to be as bad as you assume, nowadays checking whether a game supports my hardware will take just as much effort as making sure I meet the min. requirements in the non Mantle world.
http://www.maximumpc.com/amd_r9_290x_will_be_much_faster_titan_battlefield_4
I'll be honestly astonished if it did.
If it causes Intel and NVidia to retaliate, then what?
Let's be brutally honest about it - Nvidia would do the same thing (and they probably already have their own in development as we speak). The only "issue" here is that AMD did it first.
Which game developers would Intel convince to code specifically for their HD series of iGPUs?
Every close API is a sign of desperation because your hardware cant compete on a even field. 3DFX showed it in perfection what happen if you dont need better hardware because competition cant use the own render path.
Although I recognize the desire for developers to circumvent the software limitations that APIs like OpenGL and DirectX impose on hardware, AMD is really opening up a can of worms with this.
AMD is doing nothing here. They are promoting an own API. There is no desire for a lot of developers to want this. Mantle was specific designed with Dice. Because these guys wanted something like this. You know the Johnny guy said he loves PC gaming and yet he is introducing a new API with will seperate the PC market.
Hyprocrite at best.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1788711&postcount=210'It's funny,' says AMD's worldwide developer relations manager of its GPU division, Richard Huddy. 'We often have at least ten times as much horsepower as an Xbox 360 or a PS3 in a high-end graphics card, yet it's very clear that the games don't look ten times as good. To a significant extent, that's because, one way or another, for good reasons and bad - mostly good, DirectX is getting in the way.' Huddy says that one of the most common requests he gets from game developers is: 'Make the API go away.'
'I certainly hear this in my conversations with games developers,' he says, 'and I guess it was actually the primary appeal of Larrabee to developers – not the hardware, which was hot and slow and unimpressive, but the software – being able to have total control over the machine, which is what the very best games developers want. By giving you access to the hardware at the very low level, you give games developers a chance to innovate, and that's going to put pressure on Microsoft – no doubt at all.'
Mantle is the direct result of a number of AAA game developers asking us for something like this because of several constraints they're experiencing with existing PC graphics APIs. Those developers want to get closer to the metal and able to achieve more with the GPU(s) on their PC without the API getting in the way of this effort. "More with more" is the term used by Raja and it couldn't be more spot on.
AMD listened to developer feedback and entered this venture with Johan Andersson leading the charge. Johan has a passion for writing efficient code that can allow him to accomplish his technical vision and Mantle exists to serve this purpose.
got any more lies to make up sontinSome technical concerns are mentioned on this thread. The Mantle API has been in design and development for more than 2 years and rest assured we've had some time to think about the best way to address those (and loads of others).
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2011/03/16/farewell-to-directx/1
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1788711&postcount=210
got any more lies to make up sontin
this is also a very good read
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/120/1
What I don't get is how come the "software company" that JHH claimed Nvidia was, didn't get there first?
You know the answer? Nvidia resting on laurels, trying to make Tegra relevant while AMD made themselves the real gaming company in the past two years.