AMD GPU14 Tech Event Sept 25 - AMD Hawiian Islands

[PrincessFrosty]

Is Intel going somewhere that I don't I know about?
DX also created basically a duopoly concerning discrete PC GPUs out of a pool of 6+ makers.

If any company gets a monopoly that is why we pay taxes to keep States and their armies. (although it is possible politicians will lack guts or prefer to be paid off instead of breaking such a monopoly)

I noticed none of my questions were directly answered. Intel aren't relevant at the moment, there's no indication at the moment they're likely to be relevant, not when it comes to the big time. I'm not sure I'd agree that it's a duopoly, other developers could compete with enough investment, but regardless a duopoly is enough for competition, low prices and high value.

Have you ever lived through a monopoly? We had one in the UK with regards to broadband because we only had 1 major network. It was an absolute nightmare, putting up with the monopoly was bad enough but government forcing high prices artificially to give other businesses a chance made getting out of the monopoly even more painful in the short term.

 

[sontin]

And strangely there is a lack of noise about this...

Lol?!
http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2013/07/24/sweeney/

If Nvidia is still around in the 2+ years it will take them to develop it, you mean.

Sure, because nVidia would never thought about it in the past. :\

So why the fear? Is it because you know that the devs have been asking for it? Surely you must realise that Crytek are bound to follow next...then it could just be like a stack of dominos.

Crytek? It's only EA and Eidos and a few unimportant other studios.
The rest know that they need to use a high level API for multi port games. Or they do not care to sell it on the pc anyways.

In the end this is enabling better graphics and better performance. Those that move with it will prosper and those who don't, won't.

Sound like an excuse. I will use it in Intel threads when you complain about their behaviour.

 

[Genx87]

Heh are people really predicting the demise of Nvidia over this API? I would think people after all the other predictions of Nvidia's demise have not come through would learn.

 

[DarkKnightDude]

Wow talk about delusional fantasies.

How is saying Crytek might utilize Mantle fan delusion? The other thing I could see. Crytek and AMD are partnered, plus that Lichworld game which uses CryEngine was at the AMD stream, maybe the engine ill use it, but who knows.

Apparently Star Citizen, another Cry Engine game is on the AMD bandwagon too. TressFX is supported lol

 

[96Firebird]

Heh are people really predicting the demise of Nvidia over this API? I would think people after all the other predictions of Nvidia's demise have not come through would learn.

From the same person who convinced forum members he knew something about the upcoming AMD GPUs, and hyped them into oblivion. In the end, he knows nothing.

 

[DarkKnightDude]

They might have had Mantle in mind for years,

They definitely had it in mind during this article back in 2011. Probably was being worked on since then.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2011/03/16/farewell-to-directx/3

 

[5150Joker]

How is saying Crytek might utilize Mantle fan delusion? The other thing I could see. Crytek and AMD are partnered, plus that Lichworld game which uses CryEngine was at the AMD stream, maybe the engine ill use it, but who knows.

Apparently Star Citizen, another Cry Engine game is on the AMD bandwagon too. TressFX is supported lol

"If NVIDIA is still around in the 2+ years.." and "Stack of dominos". Come on get real. Mantle will be dead before it even gets off the ground in all probability.

 

[SiliconWars]

Look Sontin et al, can you just stop the pretense that you're worried about the gaming industry when it's clear that you're only worried - justifiably - about Nvidia? You never once made the same noises about PhysX or Nvidia's dubious tessellation stuff.

This is what the devs want, and asked for. It's the best thing that has happened to PC gaming in years - when a 6800K is able to play BF4 at high settings, 1080p you'll realise just what it means for the industry.

 

[RussianSensation]

Thats incorrect. It would kill themselves as well.

No offense but you don't particularly have a strong track record of accuracy on the future trends for PC/gaming.

Originally Posted by ShintaiDK
"There will be no APU in PS4 and Xbox720".

Why don't we let the developers decide if Mantle will fail or not? Worst case AMD wasted $ and time. Unless you think AMD's cards will be 9x faster than NV's through this API and >50% of games will use Mantle, you are jumping to conclusions of exaggerated proportions.

Secondly, take a step back and tell us if GTX780's/Titan's 25-35% performance advantage killed off AMD? Did 5870's 35% advantage over 285 for a period of 6 months kill off NV?

Thirdly, maybe you forgot that NV introduced SM3.0 before ATI had it and 8800GTX mopped the floor in DX10 games with 2900XT/3870, while GTX480 did the same to 5870 with DX11 tessellation. Did these huge advantages for their time kill off one or the other GPU maker? Stop jumping to doom & gloom conclusions.

 

[DarkKnightDude]

"If NVIDIA is still around in the 2+ years.." and "Stack of dominos". Come on get real. Mantle will be dead before it even gets off the ground in all probability.

Maybe. Maybe not. We'll find out in December. AMD did say during the stream that they were working with other devs for Mantle, but only DICE was specifically mentioned at the time.

 

[skipsneeky2]

:thumbsup: I hope so. I can't wait. If games start using 6-8 threads effectively, a lot of us will jump to $500 level 6-core & 8-core Intel/AMD CPUs for example. As Intel/AMD fatten up their margins through higher ASPs, they will devote more resources to desktop CPUs than they do now where the focus is largely mobile and performance/watt.

If there are games that will run 35-40% faster on 6-8 core CPUs over quads, many of us will actually consider dropping $500 on a CPU vs. 4770K.

LOL i had a 3930k,a board and 8gb of ram earlier this year,heard so much hype about BF3 taking advantage of 6 core chips i just went for it like i did the Q6600 when i heard UT3 my favorite game back in 2008 took advantage of quad cores,luckily UT3 ran like a dream on a quad core over the e6750 dual core while BF3 was meh.

Now i might regret selling that 3930k.:'(

 

[Triglet]

From a business/strategy perspective, you have to tip the hat to AMD on this. Scoring contracts for the XB1 & PS4 and then further leveraging that by throwing Mantle out there is simply genius. Based on how this has all worked out I'd say this has been a long term strategy of their's for some time.

AMD wins regardless if Mantle succeeds or not -- worst case there will be plenty of people that buy cards because of the perceived (real or not) performance benefit in certain games. Best case is a lot of developers jump on board and the theorized performance benefit from Mantle is indeed true -- sky is the limit here with regards to sales.

How this will affect the consumer only time will tell. I love the idea of 2X+ performance, but at the expense of market competition? Hrrm.

However, it really isn't AMD's job to make sure all is right in the industry/market -- their only real job is to maximize shareholder value. I give them credit for throwing themselves out there to try and get things turned around.

 

[RussianSensation]

Now i might regret selling that 3930k.:'(

Honestly I don't think the gaming industry will transition to 6-core/8-core CPUs over night. It took a long time for dual-core CPUs to become irrelevant for gaming. This is more about a future 3-4 years out imo.

 

[sontin]

Look Sontin et al, can you just stop the pretense that you're worried about the gaming industry when it's clear that you're only worried - justifiably - about Nvidia? You never once made the same noises about PhysX or Nvidia's dubious tessellation stuff.

Tessellation is an open standard feature. It seems that you dont like open standards. Like i said: If you cant compete with your hardware you start to introduce a proprietary API.
PhysX? Lol?! I still waiting that AMD is bringing their "open standard initiative" to the market and that since 2009... Maybe i do not make the same noises about PhysX because it delivers as the only solution right now?

This is what the devs want, and asked for. It's the best thing that has happened to PC gaming in years - when a 6800K is able to play BF4 at high settings, 1080p you'll realise just what it means for the industry.

"Devs wanted it"? Haha. Sweeney for example wants OpenGL. And now?
Maybe you should stop repeating AMD's marketing material. :sneaky:

 

[GaiaHunter]

I noticed none of my questions were directly answered. Intel aren't relevant at the moment, there's no indication at the moment they're likely to be relevant, not when it comes to the big time. I'm not sure I'd agree that it's a duopoly, other developers could compete with enough investment, but regardless a duopoly is enough for competition, low prices and high value.

Have you ever lived through a monopoly? We had one in the UK with regards to broadband because we only had 1 major network. It was an absolute nightmare, putting up with the monopoly was bad enough but government forcing high prices artificially to give other businesses a chance made getting out of the monopoly even more painful in the short term.

Those are more common than you think, especially in smaller markets and involving vital sectors like energy, water and communications.

And of course BT got to their size due to the fact it was a state owned company for over 100 years.

The solution isn't to keep prices high, but to break the company that is a monopoly.
That is the solution if AMD drops from the CPU sector, breaking Intel in 2 or 3 parts (some actually defend that would be better for the consumer since AMD is so small in comparison anyway).

That is the direct answer to your questions - if a GPU monopoly is established, the monopoly company should be split.

 

[SiliconWars]

Incidentally, one clue as to the performance of Mantle in BF4 - https://twitter.com/repi/status/383012110592376832

Finally can announce that we're building a new low-level _very_ high-performance graphics API which we're using in Frostbite 3: Mantle!

You don't go saying _very_ unless it's _very_. Roll on December.

 

[sontin]

The difference is that AMD is in the consoles as well.

And optimizing for one vender in sponsored titles on the PC is nothing new and NV has been doing just that far longer than AMD.

That is not how it's working. There are no new consoles on the market. On the other hand nVidia sold more than 100 million Kepler cards.
In 6 months you can buy Logan in products which gives your the whole OpenGL 4.3 feature set. As a $25 SoC in millions of tablets (think about another Nexus win).

Focusing only on new consoles will reduce the market potential of your game.

 

[Silverforce11]

If AMD do this right and provide good support, big developers would jump all over it since they are already making games for the XBONE and PS4, may as well make their games run super fast for PC too. Broaden the playability towards low end PC discrete as well as APUs, ease of porting across, all optimized for GCN on all three platforms.. seriously, its a big deal and its the reward AMD is seeking for pushing their APU to a point where its the core of nextgen consoles.

They are certainly not going to compete with Intel on the CPU side, but if their APU destroys Intel in gaming .. that is a big deal.

 

[ams23]

Looks like the FUD promotion keeps on going

@ SiliconWars: PC gaming in the future will not be driven by IHV-specific lower level graphics API's, but rather by open platforms and energy efficient processors. NVIDIA's Kepler.M and Maxwell architectures will raise energy-efficient GPU computing to levels above and beyond what AMD can do. And Intel's Atom and Core architectures will raise energy-efficient CPU computing to levels above and beyond what AMD can do. Most PC game developers will continue to develop on NVIDIA GPU's + Intel CPU's, which is what the majority of PC gamers are using in the first place.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Incidentally, one clue as to the performance of Mantle in BF4 - https://twitter.com/repi/status/383012110592376832



You don't go saying _very_ unless it's _very_. Roll on December.

And

http://www.maximumpc.com/amd_r9_290x_will_be_much_faster_titan_battlefield_4

We had a chance to sit down with AMD Product Manager Devon Nekechuck to see how AMD’s new top dog R9 290X stacks up against the green team’s best single-GPU offering. According to Nekechuck, even though the R9 290X uses a 438 square mm die, which is significantly smaller than the Titan’s 550 sq. mm GK110 offering, it “will definitely compete with the GTX 780 and Titan.” When we asked what this means in real-world terms, he stated, “with Battlefield 4 running with Mantel (AMD’s new graphics API), the card will be able to ‘ridicule’ the Titan in terms of performance.”

When we asked him what he meant by “ridicule,” he simply stated that it will run Battlefield 4 “much faster than the Titan.” Again, this is provided that you run the game using AMD's Mantel API, which is set to launch in December.

Lots of big words so far.

 

[skipsneeky2]

Honestly I don't think the gaming industry will transition to 6-core/8-core CPUs over night. It took a long time for dual-core CPUs to become irrelevant for gaming. This is more about a future 3-4 years out imo.

That was my conclusion as well when i sold that 3930k.

 

[OCGuy]

I've never seen so much lipstick be put on such a pig of a product announcement in my life.

Face it, if you announce a card lineup, but all the marketing hype goes to a possible FPS boost in a console port, and not even when the game launches........

I think AMD mastered "wag the dog" yesterday, and some people are buying it.

 

[Fire&Blood]

If AMD do this right and provide good support, big developers would jump all over it since they are already making games for the XBONE and PS4, may as well make their games run super fast for PC too. Broaden the playability towards low end PC discrete as well as APUs, ease of porting across, all optimized for GCN on all three platforms.. seriously, its a big deal and its the reward AMD is seeking for pushing their APU to a point where its the core of nextgen consoles.

They are certainly not going to compete with Intel on the CPU side, but if their APU destroys Intel in gaming .. that is a big deal.

Logic dictates they started working on Mantle when they were tasked to do both next gen consoles. I don't expect Indie developers to dare mess with low level access as well as other that like to play it safe (Call of Duty comes to mind) but pros like Crytek and others of that caliber, sure why not? Fact that they already have DICE must have at least piqued the interest of other big names in the industry.

It's only been announced yesterday but the important pieces are in place with GCN covering every relevant next gen gaming platform. If this was only on the PC front I wouldn't expect it to outlast Glide but as it is, it definitely has a shot to gain traction. It seems like it's been brewing for a while now and in about a month we'll see just how much traction there is is with Mantle.

 

[GaiaHunter]

I've never seen so much lipstick be put on such a pig of a product announcement in my life.

Face it, if you announce a card lineup, but all the marketing hype goes to a possible FPS boost in a console port, and not even when the game launches........

I think AMD mastered "wag the dog" yesterday, and some people are buying it.

When was the last time you saw performance numbers in a product number?
You are lucky if they don't show you a mock up with wooden screws.

In 2009 before launching Cypress wasn't there a press conference aboard an air craft carrier 2 weeks before, where there was loads of talk about Eyefinity?

 

[Crap Daddy]

What I would like to know is who would preorder a card that was not reviewed? What's this, an iPhone?