AMD GPU14 Tech Event Sept 25 - AMD Hawiian Islands

[lopri]

No the 7790 is likely to be the 260X. The 250 is probably the 7750 I guess?

I see. Thank you.

 

[Lonyo]

Well, unless AMD payed for the entire mantle path. It did cripple something. Be it DX path or the game itself. Resources and money needs to come from somewhere.

Thats also why multipath renders is a terrible idea.

So like PhysX?
They harm the game because resources and money needs to come from somewhere, unless NV pays for the entire PhysX code and all the effects etc?
Also, if it is just letting developers use some things that they can do on Xbox One, it might be less of a resource drain anyway, since it would require minimal effort. Maybe even less than PhysX.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

Dang boys. 5 tflops single compute. I'm liking the 290x.

 

[atticus14]

Feathers have been ruffled because any proliferation of an IHV-specific graphics API's in this day and age when open platforms are rapidly growing is a silly and terrible thing. What do you think game development would be like if NVIDIA, Intel, Qualcomm, ImgTech, ARM, etc. also decided to push their own IHV-specific graphics API's? The result would be disastrous and chaotic to say the least. And simply having midrange hardware (by current generation PC standards) inside two upcoming consoles and lower end hardware inside one existing console is just an excuse to push the IHV-specific API. Qualcomm could use their strength in ultra mobile computing as an excuse to push an IHV-specific API. Intel could use their strength in CPU computing as an excuse to push an IHV-specific API. NVIDIA could use their strength in GPU computing as an excuse to push an IHV-specific API. Last but not least, console hardware and PC hardware is always a moving target, and there is no guarantee which hardware vendor will be the preferred choice at any given point in time.

Sorry I just cant buy that excuse for the reasons I stated above. Games are still goign to be programmed on direct x to the fullest and if devs want to dig deeper they can program to hardware. This doesn't effect Nvidia in any way, they are still going to have great DX11 performance.

Developing a low level API is the only way to squeeze out this much extra performance, if AMD made this API card neutral it's no longer "close to metal" and the performance gained would 0.

We all know PC graphics blow away consoles, but I think its impossible to deny that what devs have done with console graphics with the anemic hardware they have been using is straight up impressive, and thats a big part due to of having that low level API that they can tap into.

Could it be a game changing advantage for AMD? Yes it could be, but nvidia decided to walk away from the console market basically handing AMD the reigns to do this, but what people seem to not understand is that this isn't a devious move by AMD, they are just maximizing their hardware across 3 very similar platforms which should be expected of them. With JHH throwing in the towel on consoles it became a much bigger advantage though having everyone who makes games will be familiar with GCN. If you want to be mad point fingers at nvidia for deciding that consoles were a waste of time.

 

[tigersty1e]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creig

Um, hardware PhysX does work on AMD cards. It's just that Nvidia has deliberately locked out AMD cards to prevent them from running it.

You're talking about hybrid systems with an NVidia card as a dedicated PhysX card and an AMD card as the rendering GPU.

AMD cards cannot run PhysX by themselves. The only way that could happen, is if PhysX was ported to OpenCL.

did something recently change? amd cards can run physx. but there is an artificial block on it. change the device id on amd cards and physx works.


Posted from Anandtech.com App for Android

 

[cmdrdredd]

Wow; some very interesting opinions; and a lot of mis understanding what Mantle actually is.

I've coded and having access to the metal helps; doesn't matter if its cpu; gpu.....having that access matters.

DX and OpenGL does not give that to you.

Now we know from Anand's report; Mantle looks to be THE API for X1 - again from other reports; this looks to be exactly like PS4 metal API

This gives direct access to gpu memory the cores....not as close as drivers but this is about as close as you're getting....

That's two major platforms - guess what the third is.....PC - any GCN gpu *this includes APUs with GCN* will benefit from this. Is it locked nope.

Will this also with cpu op yes as its been reported. So even if you're not running Mantle for GPU; you will still get benefits out of its for CPU side.

Guess what doesn't matter the OS with this kind of API - so guess what else can and most likely will use it....new SteamOS - because if AMD getting massive gains on 3 platforms and not steamOS - *how many gamers do you honestly switching when its slower to run steamOS than windows?* None....

this is a unified API for 3 platforms and you think for a moment developers won't use this? You are fooling yourselves.

Those say won't happen; its happening. MS has DX - Sony runs Opengl; this runs below that and hell of a lot faster. As its open; Intel and Nvidia can use it. Will they? doubtful as if they can't locked it down they will try and kill it; but because AMD controls all the consoles; its not going to happen.

Sony is not using opengl on the ps4. People keep saying it but it is wrong.

 

[pcslookout]

So when are the benchmarks coming?

 

[cmdrdredd]

I don't understand.

Mantle let's developers harness all available power out of the weaker spec'd consoles which is a good thing. It by design doesn't make a NVidia produced GPU any slower, doesn't throw a monkey wrench in it's spokes. It just allows optimization for GCN to be ported over to the PC. Why complain about free performance?

For years this sub-forum has been plagued with threads about how consoles have been holding back PC gaming.

Many believe that next generation consoles are going to play a much larger role on the outcome of PC gaming this go around. There seemed to be a lot of members here who shrugged off AMD's clean sweep of the consoles....Kinda seems like those who shrugged are also those who are anti-Mantle.

NVidia said consoles are not profitable....I'm gonna just kick back and see if AMD can make them eat a very large dishing of CROW.

I'm sure JHH isn't happy over the Mantle announcement.

Consoles are already coded this way. The api sony developed for the ps4 is this way, coding to the metal.

Consoles aren't profitable when taken and compared to selling a GPU on PC. That is what nvidia was referring to. You have to heavily volume discount stuff for consoles.

 

[Creig]

Consoles are already coded this way. The api sony developed for the ps4 is this way, coding to the metal.

Consoles aren't profitable when taken and compared to selling a GPU on PC. That is what nvidia was referring to. You have to heavily volume discount stuff for consoles.

But now you can program for one API and be able to use it on the XBox One, the PS4 and GCN PC's. That definitely reduces the amount of programming necessary to bring a game to all three, decreases overall development cost for the company, reduces the number of employees necessary, decreases development time and increases the performance for GCN PC's.

Not a bad number of accomplishments for a single API.

 

[lopri]

Dang boys. 5 tflops single compute. I'm liking the 290x.

What was the tflop number for Tahiti? I know they don't exactly correlate with game performance, but to put things in perspective.

 

[Kenmitch]

Consoles are already coded this way. The api sony developed for the ps4 is this way, coding to the metal.

Consoles aren't profitable when taken and compared to selling a GPU on PC. That is what nvidia was referring to. You have to heavily volume discount stuff for consoles.

Mantle allegedly can bring console coding of the metal optimizations to the PC as long as you have a GCN gpu....What's wrong with that?

Sometimes being in all the consoles can have benefits beyond the initial contract for said hardware....I think this go around many will see the benefit beyond the initial contract $'s.

Too early to tell about Mantle as we don't have much info on it other than what we've seen online. Sifting thru the threads it does seem to have initiated a lot of response....Some good, some bad, even **** hurt it looks like.

 

[Kenmitch]

But now you can program for one API and be able to use it on the XBox One, the PS4 and GCN PC's. That definitely reduces the amount of programming necessary to bring a game to all three, decreases overall development cost for the company, reduces the number of employees necessary, decreases development time and increases the performance for GCN PC's.

Not a bad number of accomplishments for a single API.

Looks like the only issue with Mantle is it only works with GCN hardware that happens to be in all the consoles....Go figure!

 

[cmdrdredd]

But now you can program for one API and be able to use it on the XBox One, the PS4 and GCN PC's. That definitely reduces the amount of programming necessary to bring a game to all three, decreases overall development cost for the company, reduces the number of employees necessary, decreases development time and increases the performance for GCN PC's.

Not a bad number of accomplishments for a single API.

It increases development time because you then have to rewrite stuff for DX11 because 90% of the PC market is not on GCN cards. I also very much doubt this API is the same exact one being used in the XB1 and PS4 dev kits now. The XB1 demo boxes were Nvidia powered PCs at E3 to begin with. Plus sony has already let some info out about their API for the PS4 and a lot of developers like it and not anywhere did they say it was using an API developed by AMD. This is AMD's way of trying to play catch up on performance with GPUs used in PC that just happens to work on consoles because they use a GCN based GPU.

 

[Lonyo]

Looks like the only issue with Mantle is it only works with GCN hardware that happens to be in all the consoles....Go figure!

Imagine if AMD released an APU which also supported Mantle, and gave you reasonable gaming performance but on an APU.
Wouldn't that be crazy...
Maybe it could share memory more efficiently with the CPU as well.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...re-to-pound-xbox-one-into-the-dust-eventually

 

[el etro]

Hope they push a 5% slower than 780 R9 290 at $400 to crush the competition. They could do 3 SKUs with the Hawaii chip.

Hope they do some engineering in order to reduce power consumption of reference 7970Ghz(or boost its clock without increase power consumption) for the new 280X.
Hope too they optimize the engeneering work on the 280 if the chip will be an boosted Tahiti PRO.

Bonaire with 1000+ Stream Processors? Hope it outperforms the 7850.

At least i'm expecting too amazing performance for the class on R9 270/270x (there some leaks on the net suggesting the faster model performing 10% faster than 7870...)

 

[ShintaiDK]

What was the tflop number for Tahiti? I know they don't exactly correlate with game performance, but to put things in perspective.

HD7970GE is 4.32Tflop.

 

[Skurge]

What was the tflop number for Tahiti? I know they don't exactly correlate with game performance, but to put things in perspective.

Tahiti is 3.79Tflops

 

[Abwx]

HD7970GE is 4.32Tflop.

Tahiti is 3.79Tflops

It should be the other way around...

 

[ZGR]

Imagine if AMD released an APU which also supported Mantle, and gave you reasonable gaming performance but on an APU.
Wouldn't that be crazy...
Maybe it could share memory more efficiently with the CPU as well.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...re-to-pound-xbox-one-into-the-dust-eventually

That's where they're going I hope. Integrate GDDR5 into the APU, and suddenly gaming on an IGP doesn't suck!

 

[Spjut]

It increases development time because you then have to rewrite stuff for DX11 because 90% of the PC market is not on GCN cards.

Aren't you being a little too pessimistic now?
Engines like Frostbite 3, Cryengine 3 and Unreal Engine 4 already support DX11.

Nowadays, most studios license an engine instead of creating their own. And for the creators of the various graphics engines, isn't it a selling point to support a various amounts of APIs and platforms?

 

[Aikouka]

That's where they're going I hope. Integrate GDDR5 into the APU, and suddenly gaming on an IGP doesn't suck!

I thought Kaveri (Steamroller APU) was supposed to support GDDR5?

 

[Bubbleawsome]

What was the tflop number for Tahiti? I know they don't exactly correlate with game performance, but to put things in perspective.

I think it's 3.79, but we seem to have different numbers here. Gk110 is ~the same AFAIK.

 

[Saylick]

I think it's 3.79, but we seem to have different numbers here. Gk110 is ~the same AFAIK.

At 925 Mhz, I'm getting 3.79 TFLOPs.

 

[ZGR]

I thought Kaveri (Steamroller APU) was supposed to support GDDR5?

I remember it was rumored. For some reason the GDDR5 integration was delayed. That fast memory is expensive and draws more power; so that could be a few reasons why. I hope it comes soon.

 

[piesquared]

http://www.maximumpc.com/amd_r9_290x_will_be_much_faster_titan_battlefield_4




Those are big words.
The 290x ridicules a titan in BF4 with mantle.

Welcome to the new AMD overlords. I see a much brighter future for PC gaming with AMD than with any other company out there. And they have the coolest tech by far. Nobody else is doing 'ANYTHING' for gamers except extorting gamers for more money. Gaming Evolved wins.